Ask the Ref?

Indian1961

New member
Time running out at the end of the game and Team A is fouling Team B to stop the clock and create free throws. If Team B needs to do a throw in can Team A reach over the out of bounds line and foul the player throwing the ball in before he releases the ball so that no time runs off the clock.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Time running out at the end of the game and Team A is fouling Team B to stop the clock and create free throws. If Team B needs to do a throw in can Team A reach over the out of bounds line and foul the player throwing the ball in before he releases the ball so that no time runs off the clock.
Contacting the thrower-in is an intentional foul.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Time running out at the end of the game and Team A is fouling Team B to stop the clock and create free throws. If Team B needs to do a throw in can Team A reach over the out of bounds line and foul the player throwing the ball in before he releases the ball so that no time runs off the clock.

Contacting the thrower-in is an intentional foul.
This ruling is not exclusive to the end of game situation presented here.

Anytime an opponent reaches through a throw-in boundary plane and contacts (whether it be intentional or not) the thrower, an Intentional Foul has been committed.

Also, anytime an opponent reaches through a throw-in boundary plane and contacts or dislodges the ball results in a Technical Foul assessed to that defender.
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
Watching TCU and Texas Tech. At the half the guys talked about Duke and Notre Dame. Seems Duke was 10 of 19 from three range and only a little better at the free throw line. That got me to wondering, is there a rule on where a player shoots a free throw? By that I mean could the shooter set up as far back as the three point line to shoot so long as they were within the 15 wide lane extended?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Watching TCU and Texas Tech. At the half the guys talked about Duke and Notre Dame. Seems Duke was 10 of 19 from three range and only a little better at the free throw line. That got me to wondering, is there a rule on where a player shoots a free throw? By that I mean could the shooter set up as far back as the three point line to shoot so long as they were within the 15 wide lane extended?
A free throw can be attempted from anywhere inside the semi-circle above the free throw line.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
This ruling is not exclusive to the end of game situation presented here.

Anytime an opponent reaches through a throw-in boundary plane and contacts (whether it be intentional or not) the thrower, an Intentional Foul has been committed.

Also, anytime an opponent reaches through a throw-in boundary plane and contacts or dislodges the ball results in a Technical Foul assessed to that defender.
Hence the old trick where the inbounds player would sort of present the ball to the defender to see if he would touch it. Saw it happen once.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Hence the old trick where the inbounds player would sort of present the ball to the defender to see if he would touch it. Saw it happen once.
If the inbounding player crossed the boundary line while presenting the ball I believe the defensive player has the right to touch the bball.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
If the inbounding player crossed the boundary line while presenting the ball I believe the defensive player has the right to touch the bball.
That is why the inbounding player stands back a little bit further. Extends the ball a little bit and see if he takes the bait.

I haven't seen it attempted in decades, but have see it work.

Once.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
That is why the inbounding player stands back a little bit further. Extends the ball a little bit and see if he takes the bait.

I haven't seen it attempted in decades, but have see it work.

Once.
Have seen it twice in my career...

The first time I saw it the defender touched the ball after reaching through the throw-in plane and one of my partner's whacked him. The coach complained that the offensive player "baited" his player into the infraction. I replied, "well it worked."....

The second time this happened, the offensive player screwed up and held the ball on the inbounds side of the throw-in plane where the defender stole the ball and dunked it. Had to settle a coach down on that one as well.

There's also the possibility of having a held ball if the thrower holds the ball across the throw-in plane and the defender ties him up. ;)
 

Philly_Cat

Active member
Have seen it twice in my career...

The first time I saw it the defender touched the ball after reaching through the throw-in plane and one of my partner's whacked him. The coach complained that the offensive player "baited" his player into the infraction. I replied, "well it worked."....

The second time this happened, the offensive player screwed up and held the ball on the inbounds side of the throw-in plane where the defender stole the ball and dunked it. Had to settle a coach down on that one as well.

There's also the possibility of having a held ball if the thrower holds the ball across the throw-in plane and the defender ties him up. ;)
Question on this. If the inbounder crosses the plane and the defensive player touches it, wouldn't the ball be technically out of bounds at that point, with the ball be rewarded to the defensive team? Like if two players are touching a live ball and one steps out of bounds the ball is then considered out of bounds and the play is dead correct?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Question on this. If the inbounder crosses the plane and the defensive player touches it, wouldn't the ball be technically out of bounds at that point, with the ball be rewarded to the defensive team? Like if two players are touching a live ball and one steps out of bounds the ball is then considered out of bounds and the play is dead correct?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
No.

In your situation, the play.er out of bounds has committed a violation when he touches the ball. On a throw in, the thrower(s) are not in violation by being out of bounds.
 

bbprodigy

Member
Team A behind by 4 with 1:30 left in game. Team A player misses shot - Team B rebounds. Team A player swipes at ball in Team B players hands and misses - Team A player takes another upward swipe at the ball and hits ball, then inadvertently hits Player B in chin. Foul is called and Team A player begins to walk to other end for the free throws. Official calls the foul then takes 3 or 4 steps toward scorer's table and calls a T on Team A player. Official explained that the T was for a hit to the head. Is this the correct call - are there really 2 fouls called on this play?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Team A behind by 4 with 1:30 left in game. Team A player misses shot - Team B rebounds. Team A player swipes at ball in Team B players hands and misses - Team A player takes another upward swipe at the ball and hits ball, then inadvertently hits Player B in chin. Foul is called and Team A player begins to walk to other end for the free throws. Official calls the foul then takes 3 or 4 steps toward scorer's table and calls a T on Team A player. Official explained that the T was for a hit to the head. Is this the correct call - are there really 2 fouls called on this play?
As presented, the official was incorrect in assessing a Technical Foul as contact during a live ball cannot result in a Technical Foul.

If he judged that the contact was to the head a personal, intentional, or flagrant personal foul could be in order depending partly on the severity of the contact.

Even so, 2 fouls are not in order on the scenario you present.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
You discussed the situation of a jump ball to start OT and the players facing the wrong decision and I understand the ruling.
Saw it just that one time in a JH game which is no big deal.

BUT I saw it again last weekend in a JV 2OT game. What responsibility should the referee's take in ensuring the jumpers line up facing the correct direction?

Luckily the coach who's team got the tip and went the wrong way, initially, figured it out before a score was had but to me it just seems like negligence on the referee's part to get them lined up correctly
 

AllSports12

Moderator
You discussed the situation of a jump ball to start OT and the players facing the wrong decision and I understand the ruling.
Saw it just that one time in a JH game which is no big deal.

BUT I saw it again last weekend in a JV 2OT game. What responsibility should the referee's take in ensuring the jumpers line up facing the correct direction?

Luckily the coach who's team got the tip and went the wrong way, initially, figured it out before a score was had but to me it just seems like negligence on the referee's part to get them lined up correctly
Before an official tosses the ball for the beginning of any game or extra period, a progression should be followed to ensure everything is in order.

Here's what I use/teach.....

- count 5 white jerseys

- count 5 dark jerseys

- observe the proper time on the clock...8, 7, or 6 to start a game. 4 (varsity) or 3 (Fr/JV) for an overtime period.

- observe each team's jumper facing the appropriate basket. (away from their bench to begin a game, in the same direction as their bench for any extra period)

- make eye contact with their partner(s). (in a 3man game, start with the official opposite the table) Don't proceed until you get a nod from each.

- make eye contact and seek an acknowledgement with the timer that he/she's ready

- announce to the jumpers as you are entering the circle "do not touch it til it hit's it's peak"

- toss the ball


Unfortunately, screw ups happen.... That said..... it's everyone's responsibility to make sure the teams are lined up properly. The officiating crew should/will take, and rightfully so, the bulk of the criticism for the screw up. If the crew directs the teams to line up incorrectly, it is 100% on them for the error.
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
^^^
"...- observe each team's jumper facing the appropriate basket. (away from their bench to begin a game, in the same direction as their bench for any extra period)"

Do I read this correctly? At the start of each OT the teams line up facing the same direction as the period just concluded?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
^^^
"...- observe each team's jumper facing the appropriate basket. (away from their bench to begin a game, in the same direction as their bench for any extra period)"

Do I read this correctly? At the start of each OT the teams line up facing the same direction as the period just concluded?
OT goes the same direction as the 4th qtr.
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
You don't order the nonjumpers to "hold your spots!"? :thumb:
No, as there are some movements that are legal and some that are illegal for non jumpers both on and off the restraining circle. (6.3.2 SITUATION)
This is interesting stuff to me. Never realized how much went into the start of the game/OT.

I just looked at a referee forum where they discussed how there is no rule for nonjumpers to stay put. If I understood the discussion correctly, they are free to move provided they don't enter the circle and they don't try to stand where someone else already is - correct?

However, I did see this paragraph on what I assume is a somewhat reputable site: "While still outside the circle, the referee asks each team’s captain if their respective teams are ready to go. Tell the players to hold their spots to avoid violations. Blow the whistle with a sharp blast before entering the circle."

Bad advice? Thanks in advance.

https://www.referee.com/ups-downs-jump-balls/
 

AllSports12

Moderator
This is interesting stuff to me. Never realized how much went into the start of the game/OT.

I just looked at a referee forum where they discussed how there is no rule for nonjumpers to stay put. If I understood the discussion correctly, they are free to move provided they don't enter the circle and they don't try to stand where someone else already is - correct?

However, I did see this paragraph on what I assume is a somewhat reputable site: "While still outside the circle, the referee asks each team’s captain if their respective teams are ready to go. Tell the players to hold their spots to avoid violations. Blow the whistle with a sharp blast before entering the circle."

Bad advice? Thanks in advance.

https://www.referee.com/ups-downs-jump-balls/
Bad advice....... You are telling them all not to move when some legally can move. (Referee magazine has a reputation throughout the years for publishing incorrect rulings and recommendations. Their articles typically are great reads, but for some reason they fall short when it comes to rules and mechanics)

6.3.2 SITUATION: The referee is ready to toss the ball to start the game. (a) A1 who was on the center restraining circle backs off; (b) B1 moves onto the restraining circle into an unoccupied spot; (c) B2 moves off the circle and goes behind A2 and is within 3 feet of the circle; or (d) B3 moves off the circle about 5 feet and moves around behind A3 and A4 who are occupying spaces on the circle.

RULING:Legal in (a) and (d), but a violation in both (b) and (c). Moving off the restraining circle in (a), and around the circle when more than 3 feet away as in (d), is permissible. It is a violation to move onto the circle as in (b), until the ball leaves the official’s hand, or into an occupied space as in (c), until the ball is touched. The violation by B results in a throw-in for Team A. (4-3)
 
Saw this one tonight and would like clarification.

Player A is dribbling the ball and loses control of it. He proceeds to grab the ball with both hands and hold it for a moment before dribbling again. The referee signaled that the ball was tipped by the other team so it was not a double dribble.

My question is, does a tip negate a double dribble?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Saw this one tonight and would like clarification.

Player A is dribbling the ball and loses control of it. He proceeds to grab the ball with both hands and hold it for a moment before dribbling again. The referee signaled that the ball was tipped by the other team so it was not a double dribble.

My question is, does a tip negate a double dribble?
Yes it does.
 

usfldan

Member
This happened in our game last night- We had 58 points when one of our players was fouled on the floor for our opponent's ninth team foul. The opponent's coach complained about the foul and was given a technical foul for the team's 10th foul.
The player who was fouled on the floor stepped to the line and missed the first free throw. The official, seeing there were 10 fouls on the scoreboard, awarded that player a second free throw which he made.
A different player stepped up to the line to shoot the free throws for the technical foul. He missed the first and made the second.
Before the ball was put back in play, the other team complained that the first shooter should only have been shooting a 1-and-1, and therefore the free throw he made should not have counted (since it came after he had missed the first).
The officials conferred and took that point away, so we ended up with 59 after this.
Was this correct? Does this fall under a "correctable error," or should they not have been able to make the correction after our second shooter had taken his shots?
 

zebrastripes

Active member
This happened in our game last night- We had 58 points when one of our players was fouled on the floor for our opponent's ninth team foul. The opponent's coach complained about the foul and was given a technical foul for the team's 10th foul.
The player who was fouled on the floor stepped to the line and missed the first free throw. The official, seeing there were 10 fouls on the scoreboard, awarded that player a second free throw which he made.
A different player stepped up to the line to shoot the free throws for the technical foul. He missed the first and made the second.
Before the ball was put back in play, the other team complained that the first shooter should only have been shooting a 1-and-1, and therefore the free throw he made should not have counted (since it came after he had missed the first).
The officials conferred and took that point away, so we ended up with 59 after this.
Was this correct? Does this fall under a "correctable error," or should they not have been able to make the correction after our second shooter had taken his shots?
This is a correctable error under “awarding an unmerited free throw.” The second free throw was unmerited.

The timeframe to correct an error that occurs while the clock is stopped is before the ball becomes live after the first dead ball after the clock has been properly started. That last part is what is most crucial. Although the ball become live, dead, and live again after the error was made, since the clock had never started, the timeframe to correct the error had not begun.

As you describe, the correctable error rule was properly adjudicated.
 
Dead ball out of bounds on the baseline. the referee has not handed the ball to the player to be put in play and player A raises his arms above his head and hits player b in the mouth and the referee sees it and does nothing. should this of been a dead ball technical or flagrant foul do to contact with the head? The referee went over to player A and said something so the referee definitely saw it but didn't whistle any infraction. What is the correct call?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Dead ball out of bounds on the baseline. the referee has not handed the ball to the player to be put in play and player A raises his arms above his head and hits player b in the mouth and the referee sees it and does nothing. should this of been a dead ball technical or flagrant foul do to contact with the head? The referee went over to player A and said something so the referee definitely saw it but didn't whistle any infraction. What is the correct call?
We can't tell you what the correct call is here for two reasons... 1) we weren't there to see it, and 2) It's not quite clear what happened... (maybe I'm missing something but I can't envision how one can "raise his arms over his head and hit player B in the mouth)

That said, the rule states that "A Technical Foul is : An intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead, except a foul by an airborne shooter."

Whether or not the contact was intentional or flagrant is unknown. If judged intentional, the player is assessed a Technical Foul (towards his two before disqualification). the opponent is awarded (attempted by anyone) 2 free throws and the ball for a designated spot throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table. The Technical Foul also is added to the offending player's Personal Foul count for disqualification purposes (5), and the Team Foul count.

If the contact is judged to me flagrant, all of the above applies and the offending play is disqualified for the remainder of the contest and is subject to each state's penalties associated with such an act.
 

Philly_Cat

Active member
Isnt there a rule on what you can wear under your uniform? I thought it had to match the main color of the uniform, but I've noticed that lot the case a lot this year. Tonight I saw a Fairfield player with black under his red uniform. I've seen white under dark colors as well.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
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