Ask The Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
How does a receiver establish a catch and being in bounds?
E.g.
A receiver jumps to catch the ball. Defender grabs him while reveiver is in the air and the momentum carries the receiver out of bounds before any part of the receiver's body can touch the ground. Is this a catch?
If the receiver is knocked out of bounds by the defender it is an incomplete pass.
if the the receiver is carried out of bounds by the defender it is a completed pass.

Pure judgment by the official.
 

Jokerswild

New member
When a player is hit out of bounds and is injured on the hit. The injured player stands up out of bounds and takes a couple steps toward his bench that is on the sideline he was hit out of. Coaches come to his side and he ends up walking back on to the playing field and lays down for the the ref to stop play. Wondering if there should be a delay of game penalty? I know player health is a concern but to me there should be a penalty.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When a player is hit out of bounds and is injured on the hit. The injured player stands up out of bounds and takes a couple steps toward his bench that is on the sideline he was hit out of. Coaches come to his side and he ends up walking back on to the playing field and lays down for the the ref to stop play. Wondering if there should be a delay of game penalty? I know player health is a concern but to me there should be a penalty.
Anytime we are talking about the player's health extreme caution is going to be used. One would hope that a team would not abuse the process.

Unless I am 1,000,000,000,000,000 ( you get the idea)% sure that a team is taking advantage of our caution for the well being of players, we aren't going to penalize this.
 

MSL

Active member
"Personal foul. Illegal use of the hands. Hands to the face. Defense. 15-yard penalty"

That was the announcement from the referee at the game I was at tonight. Is this a foul in HS?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
"Personal foul. Illegal use of the hands. Hands to the face. Defense. 15-yard penalty"

That was the announcement from the referee at the game I was at tonight. Is this a foul in HS?
Illegal use of hands is a foul that carries a 10 yard penalty. It is not a personal foul.
Illegally contacting an opponents head is a personal foul that carries a 15 yard penalty.

Sounds as if the Referee announced the foul incorrectly.
 
Hurdling: I know it is a rule for safety, but rarely see it called but saw it last night. The fans for the offending team were mad and confused because it is rarely called and are not familiar with it and yet see ball carriers "jump" over a defender basically everyweek in High School. What defines Hurdling the Penalty vs. simply jumping over the player.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Hurdling: I know it is a rule for safety, but rarely see it called but saw it last night. The fans for the offending team were mad and confused because it is rarely called and are not familiar with it and yet see ball carriers "jump" over a defender basically everyweek in High School. What defines Hurdling the Penalty vs. simply jumping over the player.
NFHS Rule 2-22:

“Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.”
 
NFHS Rule 2-22:

“Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.”
So if the defender has a hand on the ground or otherwise on the ground runner can Jump over him but if only is his feet are on the ground it is hurdling?
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
4th and ten on the 20, kicking team shanks the punt. Other team picks it up and runs it past the initial line of scrimmage, fumbles it back, recovered at the 7. Personal foul called during the play on the receiving team. Kicking team declined the penalty.

From where is the personal foul spotted? The original line of scrimmage?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
4th and ten on the 20, kicking team shanks the punt. Other team picks it up and runs it past the initial line of scrimmage, fumbles it back, recovered at the 7. Personal foul called during the play on the receiving team. Kicking team declined the penalty.

From where is the personal foul spotted? The original line of scrimmage?
Need some more information...

When did the foul occur?
Who recovered the ball at the 7?
 
Situation: QB in shotgun, linebacker blitzes up the middle and is unblocked until one of the linemen forcefully (shoulder to shoulder) blocks him from the side a moment before getting to the QB. Umpire throws a flag for blindside block. Does this meet the legal requirements of a blindside block and if so is this intended to be an application of the rule?
 
Is there a maximum number of balls that a team can have checked at the beginning of the game? I heard of a team that was told by the crew on Friday night that only 5 balls could be checked in.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Situation: QB in shotgun, linebacker blitzes up the middle and is unblocked until one of the linemen forcefully (shoulder to shoulder) blocks him from the side a moment before getting to the QB. Umpire throws a flag for blindside block. Does this meet the legal requirements of a blindside block and if so is this intended to be an application of the rule?
NFHS Rules:

2-3-10: “A blindside block is a block against an opponent other than the runner, who does not see the blocker approaching.”
9-4-3-n: “No player or nonplayer shall execute a blindside block outside of the free-blocking zone with forceful contact unless initiated with open hands.”

Without seeing the play there is no way to answer for certain, but based on what you describe that block would certainly qualify as an illegal BSB.

Is there a maximum number of balls that a team can have checked at the beginning of the game? I heard of a team that was told by the crew on Friday night that only 5 balls could be checked in.
There is no maximum.
 

12penguins

Active member
Need some help please, Team A receiver gains 15 yards to opponents 30, where he is sandwiched and fumbles. Flag Flies, Team B recovers at the 32. infraction is personnel foul Team B contact to receivers head.please tell me who gets possession and at what yard line? Original line of scrimmage was Team B 45. Thanks
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Need some help please, Team A receiver gains 15 yards to opponents 30, where he is sandwiched and fumbles. Flag Flies, Team B recovers at the 32. infraction is personnel foul Team B contact to receivers head.please tell me who gets possession and at what yard line? Original line of scrimmage was Team B 45. Thanks
Assuming the foul occurred before A fumbled the ball, B would not be able to keep the ball on the recovery because they did not gain possession "with clean hands" (personal foul before possession).

The penalty for the illegal personal contact would be enforced from the end of A's run (spot of fumble.....(which is the reason why a beanbag is thrown) A's ball 1st and 10 from B's 15 yard line.
 

El Indio

Well-known member
Can someone help me out. I was watching the replay of Piqua vs Stebbins. Stebbins fumbled the ball and a Piqua player recovered it, but his body was out of bounds while the ball was in bounds. They gave Piqua the ball. Was that the correct call?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Can someone help me out. I was watching the replay of Piqua vs Stebbins. Stebbins fumbled the ball and a Piqua player recovered it, but his body was out of bounds while the ball was in bounds. They gave Piqua the ball. Was that the correct call?
When a ball that is in bounds is touched by a player who is out of bounds, the ball is dead immediately. The team last in possession before the ball became dead still retains possession....

As far as the specific play you describe..... without being there and having a clear look, there's no way to say whether or not the officials made the correct decision.
 
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12penguins

Active member
Need some help please, Team A receiver gains 15 yards to opponents 30, where he is sandwiched and fumbles. Flag Flies, Team B recovers at the 32. infraction is personnel foul Team B contact to receivers head.please tell me who gets possession and at what yard line? Original line of scrimmage was Team B 45. Thanks
Thank you. In this case, the officials got the call correct. I appreciate your insight.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
4th and ten on the 20, kicking team shanks the punt. Other team picks it up and runs it past the initial line of scrimmage, fumbles it back, recovered at the 7. Personal foul called during the play on the receiving team. Kicking team declined the penalty.

From where is the personal foul spotted? The original line of scrimmage?
Need some more information...

When did the foul occur?
Who recovered the ball at the 7?
When? 2nd quarter. Not sure I understand what info is needed. It was a 4th down punt.

Who recovered? The punting team.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When? 2nd quarter. Not sure I understand what info is needed. It was a 4th down punt.

Who recovered? The punting team.
You said... "personal foul called on receiving team during the play". When it occurred is key with regards to enforcement....

Was it before the kick, during the kick, during the return, when the ball was loose after the fumble, or after the fumble was recovered ?
 

HDvHS FAN

Active member
Interesting event on Friday night between Hilliard Davidson and Hilliard Bradley. Referees got the call correct but I've never seen anything like it.

Davidson was lined up to kick a field goal on 4th and 9 or so. Fumbled snap, Bradley nicks the kick, and it rolls past the line of scrimmage. Everyone stopped and a Bradley player picks up the ball (before it stopped rolling) and tosses it towards the referee. Davidson player jumps on it.

Referees conference and signal 1st down Davidson. Bradley complains and both teams plus the referees pull out rule books and spend the next 5 minutes double checking the rules.

In the end, Davidson correctly kept the ball with a fresh set of downs.
 

El Indio

Well-known member
When a ball that is in bounds is touched by a player who is out of bounds, the ball is dead immediately. The team last in possession before the ball became dead still retains possession....

As far as the specific play you describe..... without being there and having a clear look, there's no way to say whether or not the officials made the correct decision.
It was third down and Piqua recovered at the 1 or 2 yard line. Stebbins was up 10-0. Piqua scored on the next play. It was a game changer IMHO and I think the refs missed that one. No big deal. I'm not a Stebbins fan. LOL! But I just wanted to know the ruling. Thanks so much!
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Interesting event on Friday night between Hilliard Davidson and Hilliard Bradley. Referees got the call correct but I've never seen anything like it.

Davidson was lined up to kick a field goal on 4th and 9 or so. Fumbled snap, Bradley nicks the kick, and it rolls past the line of scrimmage. Everyone stopped and a Bradley player picks up the ball (before it stopped rolling) and tosses it towards the referee. Davidson player jumps on it.

Referees conference and signal 1st down Davidson. Bradley complains and both teams plus the referees pull out rule books and spend the next 5 minutes double checking the rules.

In the end, Davidson correctly kept the ball with a fresh set of downs.
Which direction was the "toss" toward the official? Towards Bradley's goal line or Davidson's goal line?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
It was third down and Piqua recovered at the 1 or 2 yard line. Stebbins was up 10-0. Piqua scored on the next play. It was a game changer IMHO and I think the refs missed that one. No big deal. I'm not a Stebbins fan. LOL! But I just wanted to know the ruling. Thanks so much!
Again, without seeing the actual play, there is no way to tell. (and even then, many times video is no help due to angles and clarity)
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
You said... "personal foul called on receiving team during the play". When it occurred is key with regards to enforcement....

Was it before the kick, during the kick, during the return, when the ball was loose after the fumble, or after the fumble was recovered ?
Don't have that information being just a sit in the stands but maybe that's why the penalty wasn't accepted. I'll see if I can find out when the penalty was called. Thanks
 
Which direction was the "toss" toward the official? Towards Bradley's goal line or Davidson's goal line?
Actually, the ball was not tossed. The ball was held up by the Bradley player and then knocked from his hand by the Davidson player. No illegal forward pass as I think was the reason for the question.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Actually, the ball was not tossed. The ball was held up by the Bradley player and then knocked from his hand by the Davidson player. No illegal forward pass as I think was the reason for the question.
And a perfect example of why it's nearly impossible to say whether or not officials ruled correclty or incorrectly on plays here.... one says "tossed" another says "knocked" .... both saw the same play, but differently.... ( nice catch on the illegal forward pass ;) )

Another question to be asked that could affect the ruling..... the snap was fumbled and Bradley "nicks the kick"....

Did the holder secure the ball before the kick or was the ball on the ground without the holder securing the ball?
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Two calls from tonight's game:

1. Defense subs in 1 player, 1 player runs toward the sideline. Ball is snapped and he engages with the wide receiver and participates in the rest of the play. 15 yard penalty. I'm assuming his participation made it a 15 yard penalty.

2. Illegal procedure on the offense. Runner is down and defensive player spears the runner on the ground. Call was offsetting penalties. Was that correct even though they were different yardage penalties?
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Two calls from tonight's game:

1. Defense subs in 1 player, 1 player runs toward the sideline. Ball is snapped and he engages with the wide receiver and participates in the rest of the play. 15 yard penalty. I'm assuming his participation made it a 15 yard penalty.

2. Illegal procedure on the offense. Runner is down and defensive player spears the runner on the ground. Call was offsetting penalties. Was that correct even though they were different yardage penalties?
1. You are correct. NFHS still differentiates between illegal substitution and illegal participation. A 15-yard penalty for IP in that situation is correct.

2. There is no such thing as “illegal procedure.” I’m assuming you mean illegal formation. Yes, live-ball fouls by both teams cancel and the down is replayed. The yardage of each foul is irrelevant. If the officials ruled the personal foul was a dead ball foul (they didn’t in your play), both fouls would be enforced.
 
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