Ask The Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
Reading through the Pet Peeves forum reminded me of a play I saw a few years ago.
Late in the fourth, clock running, Team A gets first down. Ball has been spotted but ready for play has not been blown (believe the chains were not set yet). Team A snaps the ball and spikes it to stop the clock. What penalty is call for this?
Anytime the ball is snapped before the ready for play whistle/signal a foul or Delay of Game has occurred. A 5 yard penalty will be assessed and the Referee will wind the clock on the ready for play signal.

This year with the new 40/25 play clock rules, with the clock running, once the ball is spotted by the Umpire (or other official) the ball becomes ready for play (there will be no whistle) and may be legally snapped by Team A.
 

USA70PP

Active member
Noticed a couple of dives into the end zone after a 15 or longer yardage run on some of the games on ESPN from other states tonight. No defender close, I thought there had been some concern about this a year or so ago.
 

shadow1479

Member
With the new 25/40 play clock, when do you think all schools will or should have a on field play clock. Without it it just seems like it the back judge might be thinking more on timing than on field responsibilities.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
With the new 25/40 play clock, when do you think all schools will or should have a on field play clock. Without it it just seems like it the back judge might be thinking more on timing than on field responsibilities.
The three states that tested the 40/25s reported no issues.

There will be some mistakes, but it will be fine.... and a good change
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
Is there a rule in place now that an official can basically kick a player out for one play? I was told this over the weekend that a red can send a player to the sideline for one play....
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Is there a rule in place now that an official can basically kick a player out for one play? I was told this over the weekend that a red can send a player to the sideline for one play....
We have the option to send a player to the sidelines should he be right at the cusp of committing an unsporting act.

When we do, we notify the coach of his players actions and why we are we sending him off. It’s then 100% on the head coach to determine when he sees that his player is ready to resume play in a manner that is appropriate.

It’s an effective tool to get a play back in the proper framework of the contest. It’s not required, but it allows us to address that behavior before it gets out of hand.

Please note, once that player returns, he/she gets zero slack.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
We have the option to send a player to the sidelines should he be right at the cusp of committing an unsporting act.

When we do, we notify the coach of his players actions and why we are we sending him off. It’s then 100% on the head coach to determine when he sees that his player is ready to resume play in a manner that is appropriate.

It’s an effective tool to get a play back in the proper framework of the contest. It’s not required, but it allows us to address that behavior before it gets out of hand.

Please note, once that player returns, he/she gets zero slack.
Is this new? A coach told me a kid was sent to the sidekines 4 times in one scrimmage
 

bb9

Member
Is this new? A coach told me a kid was sent to the sidekines 4 times in one scrimmage
No, we've had this option for several years. I'm definitely not sending the same kid out four times though. There will probably be a penalty in there somewhere.
 

USA70PP

Active member
We have the option to send a player to the sidelines should he be right at the cusp of committing an unsporting act.

When we do, we notify the coach of his players actions and why we are we sending him off. It’s then 100% on the head coach to determine when he sees that his player is ready to resume play in a manner that is appropriate.

It’s an effective tool to get a play back in the proper framework of the contest. It’s not required, but it allows us to address that behavior before it gets out of hand.

Please note, once that player returns, he/she gets zero slack.
Can you also send a player off if he has his bell rung and wants to stay in but you think he should be looked at by trainer on the sidelines?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Can you also send a player off if he has his bell rung and wants to stay in but you think he should be looked at by trainer on the sidelines?
If he’s sent off for signs, symptoms, or behaviors of a head injury.......

He’s done for the day, no matter what a doctor says. At that point there is a protocol mandated by state law that kicks in that will determine when he can return to practice or a game
 

ICBM

Member
When spotting the ball after a play, it has become customary to mark it on one of the hash yard lines, sometimes to the point of awarding a first down. At what point, as you near the goal, do you actually mark the spot, rather than place it on the closest marked line? I hate seeing the ball moved forward to the closest line only to award a new set of downs that haven't been earned. I've worked the box on the chains for thirty years. Cant get used to this.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When spotting the ball after a play, it has become customary to mark it on one of the hash yard lines, sometimes to the point of awarding a first down. At what point, as you near the goal, do you actually mark the spot, rather than place it on the closest marked line? I hate seeing the ball moved forward to the closest line only to award a new set of downs that haven't been earned. I've worked the box on the chains for thirty years. Cant get used to this.
On a well marked field it’s proper mechanics to start any new series on a yard line after a change of possession and after a gain that significantly passes the line to gain. This makes for cleaner penalty enforcement t as well as more accurate measurements.

That said, I have never witnessed a crew moving a ball forward to a yard line for the sole purpose of allowing a team to reach the line to gain. That is not proper at any level.
 

ICBM

Member
Unfortunately it happened in a game I was working. Play completed. Ball spotted two feet short of the line to gain which was the twenty yard line. Teams were up to the ball ready to play. The referee (white hat) blows his whistle, marches up to the line and moves the ball forward and signals first down. A coach beside me said he had already signaled first down before seeing where the ball was actually spotted from well behind the ball. That was incorrect but he gave it to them anyway. There was some heated discussion between myself and the official and I was relieved of duty. The call was against the home team but I would have argued either way and have corrected a few spot calls that favored the opposition and been complimented by the gentleman grading the officials working the game. I have since retired my job on the chains. While I feel I was right, I let my temper get the best of me and decided it was time to walk away. The game doesn’t need that. Thanks for your efforts on Friday nights.
 
Saw this Friday night: QB under heavy duress in his own end zone heaves the ball towards the LOS. An ineligible receiver (lineman) catches the ball and runs with it for a first down. Play was called back for illegal touching, although several rules experts around me were upset that intentional grounding was not called (and a safety awarded).
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Saw this Friday night: QB under heavy duress in his own end zone heaves the ball towards the LOS. An ineligible receiver (lineman) catches the ball and runs with it for a first down. Play was called back for illegal touching, although several rules experts around me were upset that intentional grounding was not called (and a safety awarded).
Maybe the Referee judged that the ball ended up at the lineman because of the duress. Could be the reason why there was no IG.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Unfortunately it happened in a game I was working. Play completed. Ball spotted two feet short of the line to gain which was the twenty yard line. Teams were up to the ball ready to play. The referee (white hat) blows his whistle, marches up to the line and moves the ball forward and signals first down. A coach beside me said he had already signaled first down before seeing where the ball was actually spotted from well behind the ball. That was incorrect but he gave it to them anyway. There was some heated discussion between myself and the official and I was relieved of duty. The call was against the home team but I would have argued either way and have corrected a few spot calls that favored the opposition and been complimented by the gentleman grading the officials working the game. I have since retired my job on the chains. While I feel I was right, I let my temper get the best of me and decided it was time to walk away. The game doesn’t need that. Thanks for your efforts on Friday nights.
I saw your thread last week about this play. Sounds to me that this was a communication issue and not merely spotting the ball on a yard line.

Not having video and not having the view that the officials have/had during plays is why it's not productive to talk about specific rulings in this forum. Too many unknowns.
 
Maybe the Referee judged that the ball ended up at the lineman because of the duress. Could be the reason why there was no IG.
Hard to know. My eyes and memory aren't what they used to be, but it looked like all of the receivers were out in the pattern and the ball was thrown into a crowd of offensive linemen who were watching their QB get sacked. I was just curious if "illegal touching" supersedes "intentional grounding," or if it's a judgment call as to the passer's intent.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I was just curious if "illegal touching" supersedes "intentional grounding," or if it's a judgment call as to the passer's intent.
Two separate fouls with separate penalty enforcements.

Illegal Touching can only occur during a legal forward pass.
Intentional Grounding is an illegal forward pass.

Judgment of intent is key on this play. Did the duress cause the ball to end up where it did or did the passer throw it there intentionally? Or a little of both? (the R has little time to make this determination)
 

USA70PP

Active member
Maybe it is the wrong place for this, but I have often wondered why, if the game is played with a "standard" football, does each team play with "their" ball?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Maybe it is the wrong place for this, but I have often wondered why, if the game is played with a "standard" football, does each team play with "their" ball?
The rules specify the size and construction of the ball, not the manufacturer.

The only time the manufacturer of the ball comes into play is during the State Playoffs as the Wilson GST has been the official ball of the tournament. If a team does not use this ball during the playoffs the crew is instructed to file a game report with the OHSAA and sanctions will be meted out.
 
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Gnep27

New member
I know there has been some discussion on this but I am still unclear so any help is appreciated. If a team attempts a field goal from say the 40 yard line and the kick is well short and the ball ends up at the 5 yard line, what happens? Is it a live ball until the kicking team downs it like a punt? Can the defense pick it up and return it? If it is downed does the defense take over at the 5 yard line? Also, my understanding is that in high school if the ball goes into end zone the defense would take over at the 20. Can the defense catch it in the end zone and run it out or is it an immediate touchback once the ball crosses the goal line (assuming the kick is no good)? Thanks for the help
 

serpico

Active member
Is there special emphasis on the Ineligible Receiver Downfield this year? It was called either six or seven times tonight and I’m used to seeing it maybe once every few games.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I know there has been some discussion on this but I am still unclear so any help is appreciated. If a team attempts a field goal from say the 40 yard line and the kick is well short and the ball ends up at the 5 yard line, what happens? Is it a live ball until the kicking team downs it like a punt? Can the defense pick it up and return it? If it is downed does the defense take over at the 5 yard line? Also, my understanding is that in high school if the ball goes into end zone the defense would take over at the 20. Can the defense catch it in the end zone and run it out or is it an immediate touchback once the ball crosses the goal line (assuming the kick is no good)? Thanks for the help
First, by rule, anytime a kick enters the end zone, it becomes dead immediately. Once the ball touches the front plane of the goal line, the play is over.

Next, a field goal attempt is a scrimmage kick, just as a punt is. The only difference between the two after the ball is kicked is the scoring potential.

If a field goal attempt is unsuccessful, the play continues just as it would if the ball is punted.
 
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AllSports12

Moderator
Is there special emphasis on the Ineligible Receiver Downfield this year? It was called either six or seven times tonight and I’m used to seeing it maybe once every few games.
While we should always be watching for it, there is no POE regarding Eligible/Ineligible Receivers this year.
 

USA70PP

Active member
What exactly is the rule for ineligible receiver down field? Seems to me it would be impossible to have that called when the scrimmage line is from the 5 yard line on in.
 
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