cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
Go, you!!
Alexander Vindman to be ousted from National Security Council as early as Friday
- Thread starter Yappi
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cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
fyp
It was the UNIQUE synergy between the Enlightenments original thinking on the human condition fused with the profound invocations of Christianity that ended slavery. You're blind if you don't understand this.
When the ancestors of virtually EVERY human being alive today was at one time or another a SLAVE, the Atlantic slave trade was a blip on the totality of human slavery. Acknowledging this fact in no way condones slavery or reduces the terrible impact slavery has had on any group through history.
The reality is that you and others seek to distort history and make the Atlantic slave trade out to be uniquely evil and worse hen any other form of slavery. You do this to justify your hatred of America and European civilization. You also do this to guilt trip gullible people into providing goodies like reparations and special treatment because of a legacy of slavery.
The challenge you face is that when confronted with the fact that slavery has been practiced extensively throughout human history the Atlantic slave trade becomes just one example of many. A "blip" on the radar so to speak. And you can't have that because in the context of the times America's "original sin" wasn't really a sin and wasn't original. But America's civil war to end slavery was special in the eyes of history. It was also original. How many times has a nation that practiced slavery fought a civil war that killed hundreds of thousands of it's own people to end the practice?
Synergy, you got to be kidding. From the first to the 18th Century Christianity existed and for 1400 of those years dominated Europe without making any substantial effort to end slavery and in fact often supplying a defense for the institution. And then about 1700 with the beginning of the Enlightenment with its reason and emphasis on the sciences and it attack on the dogma and superstition, and Europe was put on the road to the abolition of slavery.
Gosh saying something is just a blip “an unexpected, minor, and typically temporary deviation from a general trend, “ What a way to describe the kidnapping an enslavement of 10 million people, the direct death of 2 million, the life of pain and suffering of hundreds of millions people over three centuries of chattel slavery in the Western Hemisphere.
Chattel slavery in the New Word was uniquely evil because much of it was taking place while a view attacking the institution was growing. While the Enlightenment was showing what an evil the Institution was. A fact recognized by the Southern founders like George Mason, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe. They knew what they were doing was wrong and evil but because of their greed and selfishness, they still profited from the institution.
lotr10- “Acknowledging this fact (blip statement) in no way condones slavery or reduces the terrible impact slavery has had on any group through history.”
Oh really but then you write about chattel slavery in America-
lotr10-“And you can't have that because in the context of the times America's "original sin" wasn't really a sin and wasn't original. "
Unbelievable, chattel slavery was not a sin. Jefferson knew it was a sin, Madison knew it was a sin, Monroe knew it was a sin. But you excuse it.
In the United States part of the nation fought to end chattel slavery, but another part fought to save chattel slavery.
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chattel slavery is a specific type of slavery, where the slave is considered property and the slave's children are enslaved. That is not true of all forms of slavery. gosh a ruddies I sure hope this widens your knowledge, every little bit helps.
Remember, it is not about his voting record, it is about his conscience and stand on principle and even reliance on religion to guide him. As you recall, that is what the left is praising Romney for.
You've lost this debate.
hardly he voted in away that would be popular with his district electorate, hardly a profile in courage
people like Joe Manchin, Doug Jones, Mitt Romney voted their consciences even though they all had majority Republican electorates in their states who voted in enormous majorities to the Great Orange Pumpkin, that is political courage.
I think in Mitts case he has over four years for the people that voted him in to office to forget what he did when he lost his mind and voted for impeachment that and maybe at his age he is thinking this is going to be 6 and out anyway. Time to retire and enjoy life and wealth.
Without Christianity, the Enlightenment is unlikely to have happened. I'm agnostic but that doesn't blind me to how profound the teachings of Jesus were. Without them I doubt the enlightenment takes place.
Yes the Atlantic Slave trade was a "blip" when placed against the WHOLE of human history. A history in which slavery was the norm.
The Atlantic slave trade was NOT uniquely evil. In fact it was a rejection of the Atlantic Slave trade that proved to be the undoing of slavery world wide.
It's perfectly reasonable in hindsight to condemn slavery as evil but also to note that slavery in the 18th century was not widely viewed as a sin nor as an original act. These are not contradictory statements. If you want to play GOTCHA go study NEO's posts.
I do not excuse Jefferson or Monroe's actions with regards to slavery I'm trying to place them in the context of the times. That you can't seem to do this is your failing not mine.
They do this because the foundation of their social justice demands on America rely on people seeing the Atlantic Slave trade as uniquely evil. By tearing at the scab of race relations they prevent healing and nurture a state of constant grievance. This in turn paves the way for their making outlandish demands like reparations.
This was the whole purpose of the NY Times recent bastardization of American history called the 1619 Project:
Why We Published The 1619 Project (Published 2019)
The project puts the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the center of our national story.
This piece of vile propaganda seeks to place slavery at the center of the American story. Historians, some on the left, have joined forces to condemn this deeply misleading version of American history:
The 1619 Project and the falsification of history: An analysis of the New York Times’ reply to five historians
<em>New York Times Magazine</em> editor Jake Silverstein, reviving discredited racialist distortions of the American Revolution and Civil War, refuses to correct historical errors in the 1619 Project.
www.wsws.org
Yep I linked to the World Socialist Web for one of the stronger rebuttals. The bottom line is that Isadore is simply parroting a propagandist view of the Atlantic Slave trade to push an agenda. Or he's just plain ignorant of the true history of slavery.
SWMCinci
Well-known member
"Described" is not indicted, nor is it even alleging...… it's not even alleging-near.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
They do this because the foundation of their social justice demands on America rely on people seeing the Atlantic Slave trade as uniquely evil. By tearing at the scab of race relations they prevent healing and nurture a state of constant grievance. This in turn paves the way for their making outlandish demands like reparations.
This was the whole purpose of the NY Times recent bastardization of American history called the 1619 Project:
Why We Published The 1619 Project (Published 2019)
The project puts the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the center of our national story.www.nytimes.com
This piece of vile propaganda seeks to place slavery at the center of the American story. Historians, some on the left, have joined forces to condemn this deeply misleading version of American history:
The 1619 Project and the falsification of history: An analysis of the New York Times’ reply to five historians
<em>New York Times Magazine</em> editor Jake Silverstein, reviving discredited racialist distortions of the American Revolution and Civil War, refuses to correct historical errors in the 1619 Project.www.wsws.org
Yep I linked to the World Socialist Web for one of the stronger rebuttals. The bottom line is that Isadore is simply parroting a propagandist view of the Atlantic Slave trade to push an agenda. Or he's just plain ignorant of the true history of slavery.
I hope isaderp is differentiating from an indentured slave that worked off his passage to America.
Muzzies are putting ME and African Christians into slavery TODAY.
TODAY.
Puritans were all about societal equality. They were against slavery right from the Mayflower days. British Imperialism, the economic engine of the very people the Puritans sought to escape, brought slavery here. Most common people didn't directly benefit from it at all. Abolitionists were a strong enough presence here in Hudson Ohio in the Connecticut Western Reserve that the founding board of Western Reserve University (Presbyterians) debated in the early 1820's as to whether they should fight slavery openly or just keep it at a distance. There was a path beaten through here by the Underground Railroad already.
But this thread is about Vindman's part in an ongoing slow-motion coup, so.....
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In scale, duration and long term effect the Atlantic Slave Trade was much more than a blip. It lasted 300 hundred years, it involved the kidnapping of eleven million people and the death of 2 million. It had profound social, economic and political effects on four continents. Many of those effects last to this day.
The Enlightenment and Religion were not working together. The Enlightenment was a reaction against the dogma and superstition of the Christian religion at that time. The Enlightenment instead favored reason and science. One example of the reaction against Christianity was many of the leading Enlightenment lights turned to Deism.
18th Century slavery not viewed as a sin. Well let’s look at America’s founders and how they looked at it. Jefferson, Mason, Adams, Madison and Monroe wrote about it as being an evil. Hamilton and Franklin were members of abolitionist societies. John Jay supported manumission. George Washington freed his slaves in his will. John Quincy Adams leading critic of slavery while in the Congress. The first five Presidents, the authors of the Federalist Papers, the Fathers of the Constitution and the Nation all condemned slavery. And all except John Quincy spent whole or most of their lives in the 18th Century. They knew it was a sin not like the author of this statement.
“America's "original sin" wasn't really a sin and wasn't original. "
so says the person who writesThey do this because the foundation of their social justice demands on America rely on people seeing the Atlantic Slave trade as uniquely evil. By tearing at the scab of race relations they prevent healing and nurture a state of constant grievance. This in turn paves the way for their making outlandish demands like reparations.
This was the whole purpose of the NY Times recent bastardization of American history called the 1619 Project:
Why We Published The 1619 Project (Published 2019)
The project puts the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the center of our national story.
This piece of vile propaganda seeks to place slavery at the center of the American story. Historians, some on the left, have joined forces to condemn this deeply misleading version of American history:
The 1619 Project and the falsification of history: An analysis of the New York Times’ reply to five historians
<em>New York Times Magazine</em> editor Jake Silverstein, reviving discredited racialist distortions of the American Revolution and Civil War, refuses to correct historical errors in the 1619 Project.www.wsws.org
Yep I linked to the World Socialist Web for one of the stronger rebuttals. The bottom line is that Isadore is simply parroting a propagandist view of the Atlantic Slave trade to push an agenda. Or he's just plain ignorant of the true history of slavery.
“America's "original sin" wasn't really a sin and wasn't original. "
wow Chattel slavery is not a sin. Unbelievable. Now that is vile propaganda.
Oh and I have never read the 1619 article.
the actions were described in the report and the House took action to impeach or if you prefer indict
winbypin
Well-known member
And then he was acquitted because what was "described" couldn't be proven. Gosh a ruddies. Even little kids can figure this out.
Correction the Puritans did not come over on the Mayflower, the Pilgrims did. The Pilgrims were a different sect. Pilgrims were separatists from the Church of England, the Puritans were not, they wanted to stay a part of the Church but reform "purify" it. Puritans came to Massachusetts after the Pilgrims. They brought slaves in the Massachusetts colony in the 1630s. A 1641 code of laws for the colony made it legal. They enslaved Native American and Africans. It existed there until it was abolished in the early 1780s.
Vindman is a hero, telling the truth about the Pumpkin’s abuse of power.
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fella,
the subject of this discussion was impeachment not removal.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
What’s the Difference Between Puritans and Pilgrims? | HISTORY
Both the Pilgrims and Puritans sought a different religious practice than what the Church of England dictated, but they were otherwise distinct groups of people.
www.history.com
Here is real-deal, pre-SJW Puritanism - https://www.jstor.org/stable/364886?seq=1
Muzzies are kidnapping and selling Christians into slavery TODAY in the ME and Africa.
So before you loved Mittens, you hated him and all his venture capitalist greed and Mormon religion.
Hypocrite.
The left loses yet another debate. At some point, you'd think you'd want to break the losing streak.
What’s the Difference Between Puritans and Pilgrims? | HISTORY
Both the Pilgrims and Puritans sought a different religious practice than what the Church of England dictated, but they were otherwise distinct groups of people.
Here is real-deal, pre-SJW Puritanism - https://www.jstor.org/stable/364886?seq=1
Muzzies are kidnapping and selling Christians into slavery TODAY in the ME and Africa.
the two leading religious lights of Puritan Christianity were Cotton Mather and Jonathan Edwards were slave owners. Their acceptance of Christian theology sure did not keep them from the sin of chattel slaveryWhat’s the Difference Between Puritans and Pilgrims? | HISTORY
Both the Pilgrims and Puritans sought a different religious practice than what the Church of England dictated, but they were otherwise distinct groups of people.
Here is real-deal, pre-SJW Puritanism - https://www.jstor.org/stable/364886?seq=1
Muzzies are kidnapping and selling Christians into slavery TODAY in the ME and Africa.
how do you know what I thought of Mitt Romney. You just deal in stereotypes promulgated by Fox News.
SWMCinci
Well-known member
FYP
Only the Democrats decided to impeach, and he was found "not guilty" in the Senate. So there's that.
winbypin
Well-known member
Lady....he was acquitted. Take your panties and move on to the next outrage.
but he will remain among the list of disreputable leaders who have been impeaching for as long as this representative democracy exists.
And when history reports this they will also report this was the first impeachment that was political in nature and voted down party lines.
The Johnson impeachment was completely political in nature, Johnson vs the Radical Republicans
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Where should he take his panties ? Off? return them to the store? great contribution as usual .