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www.reuters.com
Wuhan Coronavirus epidemic spreads from China to US
- Thread starter OhioBobcatFan06
- Start date
I enjoy wrestling
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Hammerdrill
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At minimum any of these studies need to break things out by age. It’s a whole lot of nothing to just lump everyone in together. Kind of weird that this article doesn’t bother to do that.
The annals of science won't judge us kindly for the whole response. This was always an old person's disease. Insisting everyone young or old get a shot created a political nightmare, and there's no doubt a lot of old people refused it out of misguided principle and thus died.
I enjoy wrestling
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How about the obese?
ProV1
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Hold on to those grievances for as long as possible. That’s the spirit!Never forget and never forgive!
'15 Days to Slow the Spread'
townhall.com
I have long been wary of politicians, but even I was surprised at how authoritarian many were eager to be.
Some demanded police to go after people surfing. They took down the rims of basketball hoops. Children's playgrounds were taped up like crime scenes. They told people in rural Utah and Wyoming to stay in their homes.
In the name of safety, politicians did many things that diminished our lives, without making us safer.
They complied with teachers unions' demand to keep schools closed. Kids' learning has been set back by years.
Politicians destroyed jobs by closing businesses. Some shutdown orders were ridiculous. Landscaping businesses and private campgrounds were forced to shut down.
And this:
Michigan's Gov. Gretchen Whitmer banned "public and private gatherings of any size." Residents were told they could not see friends or relatives.
Many of her rules seemed random. She banned motorboats and jet skis, but allowed kayaks and canoes. She closed small businesses, but exempted big-box stores if they blocked off aisles offering plant nurseries and paint. Why?
Even the CDC's "six-foot rule" under Trump was arbitrary, says former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Covid travels in aerosols that flow much farther than six feet.
When some Americans became fed up and protested, they were vilified for "threatening the public." Some were fined. A few were arrested.
It's clear now that restrictive rules were not the best way to protect people.
Sweden took a near opposite approach. They mostly left people alone.
Swedish officials encouraged the elderly and other at-risk people to stay home.
But beyond that, they let life carry on as normal. Sweden didn't impose lockdowns, school closures or mask mandates.
This is a great example of why you can't trust fact checking:
This shows in July 2021, for example, there were 1,688 deaths per 100,000 unvaccinated people, compared with 1,064 per 100,000 vaccinated people. Using this measure, ONS data show all-cause deaths in England were higher among the unvaccinated than those who had received at least one dose for every month in its April 2021 to May 2023 dataset.
First note that the difference in deaths between vaccinated and unvaccinated is not huge, about 600 per 100,000 - less then 1%. So relatively small differences in each group culd more then explain these differences in death rates.
One difference that jumps out at you is that many of the sickest and oldest folks are not allowed to get the covid vaccination. They are close to death and the worry was that the jab would push them over the brink (much like covid was dong). So of course given this realty you expect more unvaccinated people to be dying then vaccinated - a lot of them were closer to death.
Another factor not considered here is that it's well known that healthier people are more apt to get vaccinated. This to would reduce the death rate of the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated.
I get why you want people to forget and move on. It makes doing this again to folks a lot easier the next time.
This is at least a start in the journey towards the truth of covid. Read Dr Don Henderson's 2006 paper on how to deal with a highly infectious respiratory virus and you would realize that almost everything we did was wrong. The vaccine mandate was only one mistake, a big one, but there were worse ones like closing the schools.
They also needed to break the data down by health status before the vaccine appeared as well as other demographic variables (access to health care & economic status come to mind) that we know impact heath and mortality.
ProV1
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Im not sure what you are whining about. Trump made sure people accumulated more savings than almost anytime in our history in 2020. Most people I know that managed to not get emergancied to the hospital like Trump, made out like a bandit.
Hammerdrill
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Certainly, there a whole host of factors that need to be considered. Binary thinkers struggle with this however.
I enjoy wrestling
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They rely on Government to do their thinking. Wasting away!!!
Do you understand what they were disproving?
It was said that more vaccinated people dying than unvaccinated people … this disproves that … no one was claiming anything about unvaccinated dying at a higher rate … I completely agree it is virtually the same … you basically says the same thing … it was just showing the claim that more vaccinated people were dying was false because they didn’t take into account that there were more people vaccinated.
Not sure I understand your last statement … from what I have see … it was the opposite … the more “at risk” a person was the more likely they were vaccinated … but that really doesn’t matter … the numbers are nearly the same is the point … disproving the claim that more vaccinated people were dying.
They did not disprove anything until they properly balance the groups for those parameters that impact mortality.
To a point it's true that the more AT RISK a person was the more likely they were told to get vaccinated. But what we're talking about here are death rates over a relatively short time - a couple of years. People dying over this period are more likely to have been very sick with all sorts of ailments that would have precluded covid vaccination. The vaccine was NOT used in people with one foot in the coffin and the other on a banana peel. The fact is that there were people who were not allowed to get the covid shot because their health was to poor to safely get it. That is they were more likely to die of the shot then a covid infection. These numbers are included in the unvaccinated and could potentially bias the results.
I call BS … there was a much higher percentage young heathy people not get the vaccine than any other group … which should make the unvaccinated have a lower rate of death now …but you can keep trying to spin your propaganda to fit your narrative … I am just not buying it.
Are there medical reasons to not get the COVID-19 vaccine?
Although there are a few medical reasons to avoid the vaccine, in most cases, the benefits far outweigh the risks. Learn more.
www.medicalnewstoday.com
The data is out of Britain so you may be making assumptions on the number of healthy young people who were vaccinated. In general, vaccin compliance is higher in healthier adults. They tend to be more careful about their health taking better care of themselves.I call BS … there was a much higher percentage young heathy people not get the vaccine than any other group … which should make the unvaccinated have a lower rate of death now …but you can keep trying to spin your propaganda to fit your narrative … I am just not buying it.
Are there medical reasons to not get the COVID-19 vaccine?
Although there are a few medical reasons to avoid the vaccine, in most cases, the benefits far outweigh the risks. Learn more.
And are you seriously arguing that proper balancing of the data isn't warranted before making such highly generalized statements about the covid vaccine? And for the record this applies to BOTH sides of the argument.
Not really sure what you are saying … but I stand by my statement
As many as 6 million eligible Britons may not have had a Covid jab. Who are they?
The Omicron variant has refocused attention on vaccination rates as data shows disparities in uptake across age, region and ethnicity
www.theguardian.com
Highlights:
This means about 6 million eligible people may still be unvaccinated, based on ONS population figures as opposed to counts of GP records. So who are they?
Young people
Detailed age breakdowns for England and Scotland reveal it is largely young people who are not yet fully vaccinated. About 60% of under-40s in both nations have received two doses, compared with over 90% of those aged 40 or over.About a third of English 18-24-year-olds have not yet been double-jabbed, falling to 30% of those aged 25 to 29. The government dashboard does not provide an age breakdown for Wales or Northern Ireland.
So a guy who at best thinks climate change is greatly exaggerated …. Does a study that says the left (who believes fully in climate change) gives more misinformation … what a surprise … statistics 101 … who did the study and how … in this case how you determine/defined “misinformation” would greatly affect the outcome.
Bjorn Lomborg is an excellent statistician who I've found to be very honest and transparent about his work. Can you provide any specific instances where he screwed up an analysis or misrepresented the data?
" who did the study and how". Did you even read the Tweet? It's right there in front of you including a direct link to the pdf file of the study publication. Lomborg took the data from the authors own figures. Of course the authors for some odd reason didn't think the political bias was important enough to call out:
Data from Harvard Misinformation Review, survey of 150 misinformation expertshttps://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/altay_survey_expert_views_misinfo_20230727.pdf
y2h
Well-known member
Damn right. That's how you don't allow it to happen again.
y2h
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"All cause deaths"
So they are lumping all deaths into the numbers? What statistical relevance does that provide?
Died in a car crash and was unvaccinated? Throw it in the pile...
y2h
Well-known member
What do you mean no one is claiming this? You missed the cute little charts circulated by liberal social media that the unwashed unvaccinated masses in red states were dying more?
y2h
Well-known member
It is greatly exaggerated.
And Harvard, that bastion of far right thought, did the study.
Bjorn is well known person for claiming that climate change is greatly exaggerated … and the point you seemed to completely miss is this kind of study is completely based on how you define misinformation … for example a person who does not believe in climate change would consider that misinformation … but a person who believes in climate change would not … and as for providing specific info … I am not subject to what they are considering “misinformation” … the same study done by a left leaning person would come up with the opposite conclusion … a study based on opinion (misinformation) is always going to be bias.
While I did not read the entire study I did see several things … it was a survey … of 150 so called experts … and there was no consensus on the definition of misinformation … and digging deeper no exact examples of misinformation … and I will repeat it again … what one person says is misinformation and another would not … this is so subjective makes it easily to be skewed by bias … in other words … junk science!
Lomborg has been repeatedly demonized by most of the people who believe in dangerous climate change. No one is debating the observational fact that climate is always naturally changing. What Lomborg is deeply sckeptial of is the idea that the climate is changing primarily because of human activity and that the changes are potentially catastrophic. And for this the MSM and left brutalize the man.
As for the fact that they used a survey in their study begs the question of how the hell else were they going to find out the political/ideological beliefs of those doing the fact checking?