North College Hill, VASJ, Deer Park and now Richmond Heights. There will be more to follow. A few years back Yellow Springs was on the cusp of landing some big recruits from inner city Springfield. Then the coach just left for Xenia Christian (Legacy) and then on to Carlisle. There will be more. A Toledo small Urban, or Akron Canton area. Someone with athletes close by will get a bunch, make a run or two and then disappear. The new way to look at small division basketball.
Who wins D4?
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Get Yer EAGLE ON
Active member
worst argument there is..... a "best team in school history" doesn't guarantee a state championship
Insane92
Location: 328 Fairley St, Jersey Shore, NJ 08328
Would love to hear the nuanced points behind this statement. Enlighten us.And it’s all for the better
So the "so much the better" is a spreading of the joy to other locations? I can appreciate that, makes sense.
cash randall
Active member
Moving into a community as a Jr or Sr to play on a stacked team is lot different then growing up in a community and being invested and bonding with the school and community. Not the RH kids fault. And just because you pulled talented kids from neighboring schools and states doesnt make it a great story. Try again
Insane92
Location: 328 Fairley St, Jersey Shore, NJ 08328
They had a transfer move in before 2021 season, 2 transfers last year and have 2 transfers on the team this year. Source for the move-ins this year: https://www.ohsaa.org/news-media/articles/boys-basketball-state-tournament-preview-2
After decades of dominating the lower levels in football you don't think MAC opponents feel they should be in a higher division ? Don't just look at from the MAC perspective. People wants Heights to move up because of their talent - that is not right. What about Graham in wrestling - how many D2 titles have they won in a row. It's all relevant. Heights is not breaking any rules so until they do - get used to it. They will be a fixture in D4 much like SVSM was in D2. Whenever a team starts to dominate people complain.
Insane92
Location: 328 Fairley St, Jersey Shore, NJ 08328
So you see no problem with 5 transfers in 3 seasons for RH and are comparing that to schools in the MAC for football who some have probably had 5 total transfers over the last couple decades? You are truly making that a 1:1 comparison?
Maple_City_Fan
Well-known member
Stories like this makes me shed a tear for joy. Forget about kids growing up together in MAC Country who go lifting a day after winning a State Title
Buy or sell my Adam Bullschiff?
SameDifference
Member
RH may not be breaking rules, just bending them as far as they will go. They have great players who have put in the work, no doubt, and many will make careers out of playing basketball. Legit transfers happen all the time - it’s when it becomes obvious based on the timing, talent, and volume of those transfers, especially to a public D4 school, that make people scratch their heads. I don’t sense that people are just complaining about being dominated, it’s the *why* behind it. Makes the D4 state championship a formality and honestly less relevant. (Unless…of course…we get a #16 beating a #1 moment, so to speak)
I'm sure it's a wonderful story there in the Heights.
But if we keep getting these small urban schools dominating D4 ball, we may see a push for more segregated tournaments again and that's not good for anyone.
If they are organically built, I don’t care where they come from.
I'm not saying MAC schools get transfers - your missing my point. People are saying because Heights is so good they should move up a division based on talent. You don't think football teams think based on talent some MAC football teams should move up ? I understand they do things the right way (as does Kirtland) - but that does not mean that talent wise they are superior to many of the teams they play in their division.
They have two seniors on the whole team and they don't play much. Starters are all sophomore and juniors. People are just hating.
Insane92
Location: 328 Fairley St, Jersey Shore, NJ 08328
Glad you didn’t read the OHSAA link I posted about the two junior transfers who most definitely play or they wouldn’t have been mentioned in the state basketball preview.
You do understand that Heights has a brand new high school as well - right. They happen to be in a community where there are apartments as well. Unless you live under a rock you have to know that talented kids want to play for winning programs. I know this first hand from my son's experience at VASJ. Winning programs recruit themselves. If your team stinks or has poor coaching and you have a chance to attend a new school with a state championship program - it's a no brainer. What if you are a parent that has the resources to provide the best for your kid - would you do it or worry about outsiders feelings ? People seem to only have an issue when a school like Glenville, Richmond Heights, Lutheran East or Lutheran West does it. There seems to be a glaring double standard.
Insane92
Location: 328 Fairley St, Jersey Shore, NJ 08328
It’s obvious you’re missing the point. They have talented transfers who moved in there and have come out of nowhere since 2019 with the coach who came from the AAU ranks. This is the problem people have like they did with Deer Park, NCH, Cleveland Villa, etc. All star teams competing against traditional teams. Regardless of division it’s not hard to understand. No comparison to MAC football.
SillyGoose
Active member
A great recruiting school you mean? They have to recruit players to compete in division 4
Just for the record VASJ did not have any transfers. When they went to the state finals 5 years in a row all but one kid was a student as a 9th grader - no transfers.
Does it matter where a coach came from ? Heights happened to hire a coach who has brought in discipline and hard work. Yes he had connections and kids wanted to play for him - but a large foundation of that squad has been in Heights since they were in youth ball. When schools have openings for coaches in any sport - what is the goal ? To hire the best coach possible who can turn the program into a winner - Heights did that. Once you do the hard work and build a winning program talented kids want to play for that program. That is what has happened. SVSM and Ed's is good every year because kids want to play for Joyce and Flannery. Talented kids want to play for a winner - right now Heights is a winner and the rich are getting richer.
SillyGoose
Active member
Because those are the main schools that actively recruit and get kids. no other school gets kids like them.
cash randall
Active member
Not hating at all. Just calling it for what it is. If kids move in they move in. Not breaking any rules as far as I know. The talent will cycle through eventually. RH got beat plenty of times in years past by teams like Berlin Hiland and also Botkins a couple years ago. RH plays defense and shares the ball which is what makes them almost unbeatable. Lot of really athletic teams don't do that anymore.
Then get open enrollment and join the movement. Every school has the same opportunity Heights and others do - its not their fault that other schools don't participate.
Maple_City_Fan
Well-known member
I'm still having a difficult time how MAC Football and Richmond Heights Basketball is even comparable
Insane92
Location: 328 Fairley St, Jersey Shore, NJ 08328
It’s not. Glad that comparison made me
chuckle today. Needed a laugh.
I never said MAC schools get transfers. People were talking about Heights needing to move up solely based on having superior talent. My point is that their are several examples of programs that have superior talent in comparison to other schools in their division. I mentioned MAC schools in football, Graham in wrestling, etc. I never said one time they had transfers.
No, it does not matter who does it, the move in, transfer model is taking advantage of a sport where two great players can typically play for a title with 5-7 other role players. I realize there is no perfect system for arriving at competitive fairness.
While you didn’t say MAC schools get transfers, someone said they didn’t and you responded with this:
So you implied they get transfers. Same difference.
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It just comes down to perspective. Me, personally, I was born and raised in Cuyahoga County. Live here now. I went to a inner ring suburban public (Cleveland Heights) and I had friends and neighbors I grew up with go Ignatius, VASJ, Benedictine, US, Hawken, and one kid went to Ed's. My best friend growing up on my street was a Gesu kid who decided between Ignatius, Hawken and US (for education). Cuyahoga County parents are always discussing school districts and moving and what schools and suburbs (public). It's all I know. Yeah, I have been on and witnessed teams get beat down by Ed's and Ignatius. I known D1 athletes who lived near me who went to Ignatius and VASJ. Stuff happens.
These conversations probably just don't occur in MAC country. People around here actually move because of school system quality.
It's obvious BB216 is from northeast Ohio. The point I am trying to make is I think when you grow up in urban areas you really don't give a whole lot of thought or get bent out of shape when you hear about kids or parents trying to provide the best opportunities for their children.
If my child has a passion for basketball, and I live in a certain area that doesn't have the best school or program, why would I not consider St Ed's, SVSM or Richmond Hts? The coaches don't have to recruit, the programs speak for themselves. I am an east sider and unless your kid goes to Solon or Orange or is already at a private school you are probably discussing which local system is right to send your kids to and/if they should go private. It just life what it is. The fact that your child's interest or hobby will factor in these discussions is just common sense and obvious.
I just don't think small town people understand this while for urban people it's just a way of life. Just different perspectives.
Carry on.
These conversations probably just don't occur in MAC country. People around here actually move because of school system quality.
It's obvious BB216 is from northeast Ohio. The point I am trying to make is I think when you grow up in urban areas you really don't give a whole lot of thought or get bent out of shape when you hear about kids or parents trying to provide the best opportunities for their children.
If my child has a passion for basketball, and I live in a certain area that doesn't have the best school or program, why would I not consider St Ed's, SVSM or Richmond Hts? The coaches don't have to recruit, the programs speak for themselves. I am an east sider and unless your kid goes to Solon or Orange or is already at a private school you are probably discussing which local system is right to send your kids to and/if they should go private. It just life what it is. The fact that your child's interest or hobby will factor in these discussions is just common sense and obvious.
I just don't think small town people understand this while for urban people it's just a way of life. Just different perspectives.
Carry on.
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