Who will be Ohio’s Mr. Football
- Thread starter Joshua Niemann
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MOB
Member
I'll put a vote in for my guy Maloney from Bene. Zero shot, but I'll give him a shout out anyway.
I agree with others on this string on the Walsh QB. He's part of the reason I'm even on this forum because I was frustrated with things our student section was chanting about him during our game. The chants started, and the next play he ran a 40 yard TD to quiet the crowd. The kid has moxie.
Just to see how Bene compares, I also watched the game online between Hoban & Walsh, and the QB balled out.
Aside from him, I hear a lot of good things about the Ashland QB and Lake QB. But neither of them play a good schedule.
It's a tough year with the Montgomery kid (Georgia commit) and now Bo (OSU commit) both out to injury.
I agree with others on this string on the Walsh QB. He's part of the reason I'm even on this forum because I was frustrated with things our student section was chanting about him during our game. The chants started, and the next play he ran a 40 yard TD to quiet the crowd. The kid has moxie.
Just to see how Bene compares, I also watched the game online between Hoban & Walsh, and the QB balled out.
Aside from him, I hear a lot of good things about the Ashland QB and Lake QB. But neither of them play a good schedule.
It's a tough year with the Montgomery kid (Georgia commit) and now Bo (OSU commit) both out to injury.
This Belisari is indeed the son of former buckeye Greg who stared at LB.
FBLFAN
Member
I don't know who they were up against, so I can't speak to those years.
My point is really more that there are a lot of misleading stats out there. I saw the backup RB for Copley rush for 238yds on 13 carries and 4TDs this past weekend. Does that mean he would also tear it up against St Ed's?
Simply - stats are only one component, not the end all be all.
GoingCoastal
Well-known member
I see no mention of Marquise Davis of Cleveland Heights as a leading candidate. He was runner-up last year.
FBLFAN
Member
I'm pretty sure he's been hurt most of this season as well.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Enis played for Mississinawa Valley in the early 90's, D5 in the cross-county conference. Competition not that great but doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. Obviously, he was. Enis and Hoying both from small schools actually 2 winners of the award that had excellent college careers as well as playing in the NFL.
This is what you stated: Stats don’t mean anything to me against inferior competition. How do you think this kid would play if he were to face a defense like Hoban, Eds or Moeller?
Answer no way of knowing that but how would that player do if he played for St. Eds again all speculation.
Bruce Monnin
Well-known member
When you play against a defense from Hoban, Eds or Moeller, you are probably on a similar team, and thus benefit from playing behind a superior offensive line, from the scouting of a high end coaching staff, etc.
MassillonK1D330
Well-known member
I definitely agree with you but like I said bro I just feel like a lot of people is going to look at who are they playing instead of how good the kid is. Which I mean can honestly be a little bit of both I think he's a good player but I just feel like you're not putting up crazy stats like that and division 1 division 2 or even D3 because the level of competition is way different.
Rack162
Well-known member
Garaway and Dover are both solid programs, and he dropped 300 on both of them, 9.5 per carry. Kinsey's vision is great, he runs a 4.5, benches 365 and squats 550. If he was a one-way player in D1 behind a D1 line, everyone would know his name. Film don't lie, kid's a dog. He should at least have a Kent State offer by now.
Regardless, I've just been saying he should be "in the conversation", just like 2023 Mr. Ohio finalists (D4) Snider and (D5) Sesay were last year. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think there have been a lot of 3000, 100, 30+ players. He has a legit shot at that.
MassillonK1D330
Well-known member
I'm not saying that the kid is not good but Garaway and Dover is NOT Hoban , Moeller,Ed's Walsh Jesuit, Cleveland Benedictine and the list can go on. Like I said before I feel like Mr Football in the state of Ohio should be split between divisions D1-D3 and D4-D7 that way so kids like him would have a chance of winning Mr Football. I watched the game between Indian valley and Garaway he definitely was an amazing player but we often see that at the lower divisions one player can change an entire game same thing with poochie last year we Canton South into that meet Glenville in the playoffs and he looked average he was still a great player don't get me wrong but it's a difference when you plan A team like Glenville who can match you.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Totally disagree, OHSAA has watered down the playoffs with 7 divisions do not have 2 Mr. Football awards. Again Enis and Hoying came from 2 small schools both had excellent football careers esp. in college. There are really good football players that play in small schools not just your big divisions. St. Henry has had 2 starting QB's at OSU in the last 30 years how many has Massillon or any big school in Ohio had in the same time period.
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Rack162
Well-known member
Throughout the years, many of the lower division winners and nominees were deserving.
I'm NOT saying Kinsey should win Mr. Ohio, but clearly, he's a great player that's not up for debate. What I am saying is that he 100% deserves to be mentioned in the conversation not just because of his wild numbers but because he is one of Ohio's top running backs and looks to be leading his team to unprecedented heights. Also, he could start for plenty of D1 and D2 schools. At this point, just say that you don't think he should be in the conversation, and we can just agree to disagree. No need to bring Ginn Academy into this discussion.
There should only be one Mr. Ohio.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
This.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
I know I am opening up another can of worms but look at the first ten Mr. Ohio Football award winners compared to the last ten not much comparison. Robert Smith, Woodson, Hoying, Enis, Katzenmoyer compared to the last 10 not much comparison except for Joe Burrow and Cade Stover. Allar and Kiner still in college.
Totally agree with you! Another thing that I don't think people realize is that he isn't putting 300 yards up against the weaker teams on their schedule because he is only playing 2 quarters, if he was playing 4 quarters every game he could honestly be at 3000+ right now. His biggest games have been the hardest teams on their schedule because he has been able to play 4 quarters in those games. This is not a program that is padding stats against mediocre competition, he's lucky to get 10 carries in those games.
FBLFAN
Member
I see this thread has fallen into a discussion on good competition vs poor competition and stats vs wins.
It's just an opinion, and mine is competition, wins and leadership should count more than stats.
By you saying he only plays a half and runs the ball 10x per game and still gains 300 yards, or whatever it was, makes the case stronger that the competition is not good. Again, my OPINION is racking up stats against inferior teams means very little. If the Highland RB wanted to have 3000 yds, he probably could. He could rush for 300 yds a game vs Cuyahoga Falls, Copley, etc. But the coach won't run up the score against those types of teams. Not even considering that Copley would most likely beat a lot of the teams in D4-D7.
It's just an opinion, and mine is competition, wins and leadership should count more than stats.
By you saying he only plays a half and runs the ball 10x per game and still gains 300 yards, or whatever it was, makes the case stronger that the competition is not good. Again, my OPINION is racking up stats against inferior teams means very little. If the Highland RB wanted to have 3000 yds, he probably could. He could rush for 300 yds a game vs Cuyahoga Falls, Copley, etc. But the coach won't run up the score against those types of teams. Not even considering that Copley would most likely beat a lot of the teams in D4-D7.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I'm saying the 300 yard games he's had have been against their best competition. I'm not saying that the competition shouldn't come into consideration, it obviously should, I am just saying his big games are not the easy ones because they take him out, he's too valuable to keep in a game that is in the bag.
Ironically the worst team they have played this year was a D3 team (Akron Ellet) , so it isn't just about school size. I'd say probably half of D3 schools aren't as good as Garaway (D5) which was a state final four team. Dover and John Glenn are both D3 playoff level teams and Garaway should make a long run in the D5 playoffs, they aren't playing total trash teams week in and week out.
Most of these players from your Hoban, Massillon, St. Eds teams are definitely playing better competition but they are also playing one side of the ball and surrounded by an all-star cast, none of that is true for Kinsey. Him winning is a long shot because of big school bias but he should certainly be in the conversation.
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Squintz
Well-known member
I took a couple of days to watch some games from the players on this string that I don't know, to compare with those I'm familiar with. Here are my takeaways:
1) Walsh QB is special. I watched the Ursuline & Hoban games. Those are two big-time programs, and he was the best player on the field in both games and put the team on his back for both. I also saw he won player of the week for the Benedictine game.
2) Moeller's QB is a very accurate passer. When given time, he delivers a great ball. But I don't see the same moxie as the Walsh kid.
3) Kinsey is a very, very good RB. I watched the Garaway and Dover games, since those were mentioned. He does look like a really good player, but watching those games just looks different than watching the other games. I can't say that if you didn't put the Hoban RB on Indian Valley that he wouldn't also run for 300. If you put Bo Jackson on that team, he rushes for 3000 in 5 games.
4) I saw DC Ferrell for Ursuline in game one vs Walsh and watched the Fitch game. He's a playmaker. Elusive as heck, great runner but not the greatest of passers.
5) The Shelby QB is another good player. But I'm in the corner of who do they play that justifies the stats. I watched a couple highlight videos of him, which of course are only showing best plays, and it's tough to gauge because the defense just seems really slow. I'm sure he's a great player.
6) I saw Bo play and think he easily would've been in the top 3, but the injury takes him out.
7) Ditto for Marquis Davis. Another level kid, but hasn't played much.
The best ability in football is availability, so the kids that have missed 3 or more games I can't consider.
Those are all I've been able to check thus far.
1) Walsh QB is special. I watched the Ursuline & Hoban games. Those are two big-time programs, and he was the best player on the field in both games and put the team on his back for both. I also saw he won player of the week for the Benedictine game.
2) Moeller's QB is a very accurate passer. When given time, he delivers a great ball. But I don't see the same moxie as the Walsh kid.
3) Kinsey is a very, very good RB. I watched the Garaway and Dover games, since those were mentioned. He does look like a really good player, but watching those games just looks different than watching the other games. I can't say that if you didn't put the Hoban RB on Indian Valley that he wouldn't also run for 300. If you put Bo Jackson on that team, he rushes for 3000 in 5 games.
4) I saw DC Ferrell for Ursuline in game one vs Walsh and watched the Fitch game. He's a playmaker. Elusive as heck, great runner but not the greatest of passers.
5) The Shelby QB is another good player. But I'm in the corner of who do they play that justifies the stats. I watched a couple highlight videos of him, which of course are only showing best plays, and it's tough to gauge because the defense just seems really slow. I'm sure he's a great player.
6) I saw Bo play and think he easily would've been in the top 3, but the injury takes him out.
7) Ditto for Marquis Davis. Another level kid, but hasn't played much.
The best ability in football is availability, so the kids that have missed 3 or more games I can't consider.
Those are all I've been able to check thus far.
I wasn’t able to find a stream of this year’s IV - Dover game, I was told it wasn’t streamed. I’d love to watch it if you can tell me where to find it, I could only find last year’s game.
Squintz
Well-known member
Was sent it as a download. PM me and I can try to send it. It's only a half because the file was so large.
MassillonK1D330
Well-known member
I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the conversation but as far as some people saying he should win it?No I don't think so and you're right we could definitely agree to disagree because I definitely think there should be more than one Mr Football considering there's going to be a conversation every year when a kid from a smaller division puts up phenomenal stats compared to a kid doing that in the bigger divisions. You separated there's no more discussion because I feel like this argument is going to go on past our lifetime.
Squintz
Well-known member
It's almost like picking the best NFL player of all time. You can't really pick one, because the game and rules have changed so much.
There are great players in D5-D7. No doubt. But to project and say they would be as good in a game like Massillon vs Eds because they have more players around them is pure projection. I'm in the camp of splitting D1-D4 and another one for D5-D7.
Rack162
Well-known member
Who is saying he should win? I didn't see one post that said he should win Mr. Ohio, only people saying he shouldn't win or have a chance because his stats are padded because he plays for D4 Indian Valley, and they don't play Hoban, St. Eds, Ginn Academy, Avon, Moeller, TCC, Massillon, St. X, Mentor and Lakota West. NO ONE in Ohio is playing a schedule like that, especially a D4 school. Just last year, a D5 RB from West Muskingum was nominated.
I'm starting to think people aren't reading the posts.
Rack162
Well-known member
Obviously, Jackson is a great player but to act like Kinsey behind VASJ line couldn't run for 560 on 40 carries against 0-7 Glen Oak, 1-6 Mansfield and 2-5 Mooney would also be crazy talk.
Fumblerooski
Well-known member
Wait his name is Lamar Jackson and Bo Jackson? No wonder he’s so good!
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Regarding Kinsey, I think for any small school kid to win he needs a big time offer. Hoying Ohio State, Ennis Penn State. Bainum from Williamsburg back in the day set state records but Clarett won it that year. I think it would also help if a small school kid was in a bigger media market.
Squintz
Well-known member
I'd check the Ignatius schedule before making that statement.
Avon
Mentor
Walsh Jesuit
Hoban
Toledo Central Catholic
St Eds
Moeller
St Xavier
Of course, they are paying the price for it too.
You make it seem like Kinsey has a team around him. He doesn't. It's a good OL and he has other good D4 players on his team.
You also make it seem like teams like VASJ and others all have Big 10 O-Lines. They don't.
You're spiraling. Nobody is saying he shouldn't be considered. That's your argument. But when anyone says he shouldn't win, you start the spin. He's a good player. A great D4 player. He deserves consideration and mention. He doesn't deserve to win it, because in my opinion there are others that are more deserving. He's not Curtis Enis or Bobby Hoying.