Yappi
Go Buckeyes
As lockout drags on, poll indicates MLB could be charting path to irrelevance | Sporting News
Foster: Lockout could accelerate MLB's path to irrelevance
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Update: Baseball is Back (As lockout drags on, poll indicates MLB could be charting path to irrelevance)
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Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Sadly, I agree with the article. Baseball is a different game today. For some of us old timers, the transition makes it difficult to get dragged back in to the day-in, day-out fandom that we had when we were younger. I remember a time when I hung on to every game and lived and died with every pitch. Back then, the Indians games were always on our radio. I would always contrast that with how we went to a Minor League game and just soaked in the atmosphere without worrying about who won or lost. Surprisingly, going to a Cleveland game feels more like those Minor League games of the past rather than the excitement of the Major League Club from my youth.
When they had the strike in 1994, it was devastating to a bunch of us fans. Now, I'm not sure I'll even notice the games aren't being played. I still love watching baseball and softball but the Major League version is not as captivating as it once was.
When they had the strike in 1994, it was devastating to a bunch of us fans. Now, I'm not sure I'll even notice the games aren't being played. I still love watching baseball and softball but the Major League version is not as captivating as it once was.
14Red
Well-known member
First of all, not disagreeing with this article at all, but there really is no lock out until games are being missed. Almost no one cares about labor negotiations in January. Now they are meeting already, which I think is a good sign.
Baseball is dying, there's no doubt about that. Football and basketball are much more interesting for the younger generation. The skill sets it takes play baseball at the highest levels is difficult and takes many years to perfect.
I think baseball will always be relevant to a degree. Heck look at the crap that is put out there as sports today and people watch. The X games for instance. Tennis, golf, MMA,
I'm a big baseball fan and I'll be ready when they start the season, regardless of what happens.
Baseball is dying, there's no doubt about that. Football and basketball are much more interesting for the younger generation. The skill sets it takes play baseball at the highest levels is difficult and takes many years to perfect.
I think baseball will always be relevant to a degree. Heck look at the crap that is put out there as sports today and people watch. The X games for instance. Tennis, golf, MMA,
I'm a big baseball fan and I'll be ready when they start the season, regardless of what happens.
Baseball is not dying. It has grown immensely since the last CBA (5 years?)
Precisely why the lockout now.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Honestly, I lost internet in ,2020. Shutdown made me realize I have better to do with my time than follow MLB daily.
Not a game would go by that's didn't watch or listen to at least part of a Reds game.
It bores me with how slow it is. Strikeout. HR.
Found a stat recently...the avg pitch per batter has increased nearly 1pitch in the last 30yrs. Think about it..... extra 20-30 seconds more per at bat per game.
I'll go to MiLB, local HS games, watch some college but MLB is dead to me.
Not a game would go by that's didn't watch or listen to at least part of a Reds game.
It bores me with how slow it is. Strikeout. HR.
Found a stat recently...the avg pitch per batter has increased nearly 1pitch in the last 30yrs. Think about it..... extra 20-30 seconds more per at bat per game.
I'll go to MiLB, local HS games, watch some college but MLB is dead to me.
14Red
Well-known member
Completely understand, but for me, knowing the players is important. Minor league games, random high school and college games you don't get to know the players. I'll say this, I've followed the Reds the last 10 years or so, nearly game by game. People joke because I'm a 162 game fan. I enjoy the grind of day to day baseball. Not lost on this, some of my favorite Reds has been Joey Votto, Brandon Phillips, Tucker Barnhart, Eugenio Suarez, etc. We see these guys come up as prospects and some just have a cup of coffee and move on, others stick around for a few years and in a guy like Votto, we've been able to see his entire body of work over his career.
To your point, yes, the pace of play in today's baseball is maddening. There are rules in place to keep the game moving and the umpires simply don't enforce them and IMO it really hurts the fan appeal. I think people would be ok with the strikeouts if the games lasted 2 1/2 hours instead of 4. Now the dirty little secret that baseball probably doesn't want to advertise is that by having 4 hour games, there are longer commercial breaks which equals $$$'s. Until you pull away the need for the almighty $$$'s I'm not sure you get much change. An NFL football game could really be played in about 2 hours. When you go to a game in person, you really see the time wasted where players are just standing on the field waiting for the TV breaks to end.
Baseball has no time clock and that disturbs today's rush-rush society.
irish_buffalo
Well-known member
And it will only get worse as our society moves more and more to instant gratification.
I'm a 162 game Tiger fan. In fact I pay more for DishTV Streaming so I can watch all of their games. I catch several Spring Training games every year because I can stand at the fence and BS with the players. Mostly the A and AA guys but it is fun nonetheless. Usually as the AAA and Pro guys are playing in the stadium the A & AA guys are playing on a diamond out back. You can see some great ball, with guys hustling their butts off to earn a spot, for free.
OldSoulon
Well-known member
Maybe your a whole owners will change the name of the team.
That really pumps up the fan base.
14Red
Well-known member
I get alot of satisfaction seeing the guys come up through the ranks and make it to the majors. It's a little frustrating because the team markets every prospect as "can't miss" and as we know, that's not true. But still, to see Joey Votto - who wasn't even the Reds top prospect when coming up through the minors (Jay Bruce was) it's very neat to see.
BTW, you picked up Tucker Barnhart during the offseason, and same deal, here's a kid who's very undersized to be a ML catcher and he's just been a grinder through the Reds rebuild the last 5 years and made himself a ML baseball player. Great guy, great TEAM guy. You'll like him on your team.
irish_buffalo
Well-known member
I love the Barnhart pick-up. The Reds are my NL team and over the last several years I have watched them quite a bit since my Tigers were so bad. This is why I pay about $20 more a month for Direct TV Streaming Service. They carry Bally's Sports Ohio and Detroit.
We (Tigers) have an existing catcher that is similar in Eric Haase. Bounced around in the Indians system for a while before earning a spot with the Tigers. He plays with hustle on every pitch. We have had issues lately with entitlement. Miguel Cabrera is a goofball and it spills over to the team. It was ok when he was winning the Triple Crown but now that he is old and out of shape it does not play well. I cannot wait for him and his ridiculous bloated paycheck to be gone. Nicholas (don't call me Nick) Castellanos picked up that air of entitlement and I was glad we shipped him off. He has skill and can hit but is too cocky for my blood. And he is absolutely brutal in the field and 1B was not open for him since we always had two fat over the hill over priced Venezualans in Victor Martinez and Miguel Cabrera in the way.
Dave Dombrosky was GM when we went out and bought all these bloated hitters. He should be shot for those moves. The new GM Al Avila understands that we play 25% of our games in crappy weather and in the biggest ballpark in MLB. Picthing and speed should be the play and he has gone that route. We have some really good young pitching coming and if we can manage to keep them around could be special.
Thavoice
Well-known member
As a former coach I like to watch the Xs and Os, fundamentals. Alignment and none of that really matters if I know the players or not.
It shouldn't, but the salaries in MLB also hinder my interest. I'm all for the bear getting good salaries , but also rans making millions...yeah for whatever reason also turns me off
Plus ..Id I wanna good seat at a MLB game I'm paying way too much.
14Red
Well-known member
The Tigers seem to be on the right track these days, and you CAN win in baseball without spending tons of money. I'm not real well versed with the Tigers, but it seems like they are on the upswing. It was very good see see Votto's resurgence as a few years ago, I was wondering if we'd ever get to the end of this contract (2024).
I am much more interested in the style of baseball where players steal bases, hit and run and not just swing for the fences. I've frankly never, ever worried about what players make. I don't know why that is even relevant to fans. I recall back in the late 80's / early 90's Sports Illustrated published the salaries of all major league baseball players and of course today there are web sites dedicated to what players make, and their contract terms. Again, that makes no difference to me at all. As a long time fan of Reds player Joey Votto, it amazes me how he was treated before and after he signed the big contract by some fans. Some fans feel that after they sign a big contract, they are no longer allowed to make mistakes or get hurt???
Depending on who you are a fan of and how much you want to spend, you can get reasonable seats at baseball games much, much more than just about any other sport, simply due to the inventory of games.
irish_buffalo
Well-known member
This is why I love Spring Training. Not a bad seat in the house and you can hang out along the fence and it won't break the bank.
I have not been to a MLB in over 10 years because of what you describe. I have never wanted an autograph and most of the seats these days are bought up by corps. that hand them out to employees or as gifts. I'd wager 75% of people attending a game these days are there for an experience more so than the actual game. They show up in the 2nd inning because they were busy slugging beers at a bar across the street, they come in and eat a bunch of ballpark food and BS, take a bunch of selfies and post on social media to show all of their friends how cool they are, then leave in the 7th to head back to the bar. This is why there was a recent uptick in people getting hit by foul balls, no one is really paying attention to the actual game. We've been playing pro baseball with fans in attendance for over 100 years and now they have to put up nets?
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
The problem is that there are a dwindling number of us that appreciate the game and all it's subtleties. And I suspect most of us are 50+ years old. MLB needs to solve the major issues with pace of play and lack of balls in play if it hopes to regain the interest of the younger audience.
20-30 minute innings full of walks, strikeouts and an occasional HR are not entertaining. Have to reduce the number of pitches and get balls in play. Great fielding plays, double-plays, and doubles/triples generate the most excitement. How do they quicken the pace of play and force more balls in play? My proposal would include:
- enforce the full height and width of the strike zone and the pitch clock
- automate the ball/strike calls so that incompetent, old-fart umpires don't screw it up
- push back the fences / increase the height of the fences
- once a batter gets to 2 strikes, the third foul ball is a strikeout
I realize most or none of this will happen, but changes like this would encourage hitters to cut down their swings and make more contact, which is what the game needs to be more exciting.
20-30 minute innings full of walks, strikeouts and an occasional HR are not entertaining. Have to reduce the number of pitches and get balls in play. Great fielding plays, double-plays, and doubles/triples generate the most excitement. How do they quicken the pace of play and force more balls in play? My proposal would include:
- enforce the full height and width of the strike zone and the pitch clock
- automate the ball/strike calls so that incompetent, old-fart umpires don't screw it up
- push back the fences / increase the height of the fences
- once a batter gets to 2 strikes, the third foul ball is a strikeout
I realize most or none of this will happen, but changes like this would encourage hitters to cut down their swings and make more contact, which is what the game needs to be more exciting.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Changes I would make:
1. Relievers get no warmup pitches when they enter the game unless due to injury. (They warmed up in the bullpen)
2. Pitchers may pitch when they receive the ball back from the catcher after standing on the rubber for 2 seconds. Batters are no longer allowed to step out or delay the next pitch.
3. Automatic strike zones.
4. One minute to transition between innings. Pitchers should sprint out and complete their warmups in 60 seconds or less.
5. Time limit between pitches.
6. Limit pickoff attempts. Time between pitches does not reset due to pickoff attempt.
Pitchers and batters should be working quickly. Any delay should not be tolerated any longer (ie no Mike Hargrove batters). The game needs to pickup the pace and players that play slow should be weeded out of the game.
1. Relievers get no warmup pitches when they enter the game unless due to injury. (They warmed up in the bullpen)
2. Pitchers may pitch when they receive the ball back from the catcher after standing on the rubber for 2 seconds. Batters are no longer allowed to step out or delay the next pitch.
3. Automatic strike zones.
4. One minute to transition between innings. Pitchers should sprint out and complete their warmups in 60 seconds or less.
5. Time limit between pitches.
6. Limit pickoff attempts. Time between pitches does not reset due to pickoff attempt.
Pitchers and batters should be working quickly. Any delay should not be tolerated any longer (ie no Mike Hargrove batters). The game needs to pickup the pace and players that play slow should be weeded out of the game.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Auto strike zone is not to speed up the game, it is just to make it appear fairer to the average fan. Umpires strike zones can change. An auto strike zone is either a strike or not a strike. No human subjectivity involved. Every strike zone would be based on data for individual batters so the 6'6" batter has a bigger strike zone than the 5'6" batter.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
This is 100% about shortening the game, which I get. #3 makes the game better but not faster. #1 is silly, unless you want more walks. Reliever needs to have a few throws to get used to the different mound. #6 would save what, 30 seconds per game?
You have not addressed the larger problem, which is the lack of balls in play. I don;t care if the game is shorter if it is all strikeouts, walks and HR.
14Red
Well-known member
You are correct, except I'd say 75% is pretty high, I'd guess closer to 30-40%, there are people who like going to games, even families believe it or not.
14Red
Well-known member
Unfortunatley the speed up rules are in place, the umpires simply refuse to enforce them. I'd give relief pitcher 3 pitches, you know there is a commercial break anyway. Auto strike zones are being implemented in AAA this year - we'll see how it goes. #4 is not happening, sponsors pay big money to networks so you can watch the game. If you were running the network, you'd have 4 minutes between innings. #6 is not dooable. Once you hit the limit, then what?
There are parts of baseball that are timeless, you can't force it.
EagleGuy
Well-known member
Shorten the game to six innings, placing advertisements on each base and the pitching mound. Large ads - for big tech - in left and right center.
More ads on unis. Incorporate flashing or fade-in/fade-out, changing electronic ads in each unused corner of the tv screen. (Only one? Make it Huge).
If a game hasn't been decided by the seventh inning, call it a tie. Go to the point system.* Two points for a win and one for kissin' ya sista.
*Triple plays become known as hat tricks.
More ads on unis. Incorporate flashing or fade-in/fade-out, changing electronic ads in each unused corner of the tv screen. (Only one? Make it Huge).
If a game hasn't been decided by the seventh inning, call it a tie. Go to the point system.* Two points for a win and one for kissin' ya sista.
*Triple plays become known as hat tricks.
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irish_buffalo
Well-known member
I plan on seeing a bunch of Spring Training ball and that looks in jeopardy at this point. A drawn out dispute certainly will not help with populatrity.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Time between pitches, and number of pitches , are the two biggest culprts.
Other stuff like pickoffs, etc, won't make much of a difference.
I mentioned t earlier and it's worth reiterating......pitches per at bat are up nearly a pitch from 40 or so years ago.
U
No big deal, right? Think about it....at least 6 batters per inning at 30-40 second an at bat...
I'm telling ya ..right there is where it's at.
So many power pitchers these days and more swings and misses.
I saw two games where they added a foot to the mound difference. Hard to say if it made a difference when I watched as I don't have the data, and the pitching was bad with those warshed up guys.
Lower the mound.
Other stuff like pickoffs, etc, won't make much of a difference.
I mentioned t earlier and it's worth reiterating......pitches per at bat are up nearly a pitch from 40 or so years ago.
U
No big deal, right? Think about it....at least 6 batters per inning at 30-40 second an at bat...
I'm telling ya ..right there is where it's at.
So many power pitchers these days and more swings and misses.
I saw two games where they added a foot to the mound difference. Hard to say if it made a difference when I watched as I don't have the data, and the pitching was bad with those warshed up guys.
Lower the mound.
OldSoulon
Well-known member
Guys have to adjust both batting gloves after every pitch, genuflect, adjust their helmet, blah blah blah.
OldSoulon
Well-known member
Didn't they lower the mound over 50 years ago?
Thavoice
Well-known member
YEs. It pretty much immediately ended the dead ball era.
Omar
Well-known member
WTF?
www.espn.com
Report: MLB stops testing players for steroid use
Major League Baseball has stopped steroid testing for the first time in nearly 20 years due to the expiration of the drug agreement, according to The Associated Press, a move the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency says causes concern to "those who value fair play."