Two Officials for JV Game

cincifbfan said:
Nope. But clearly I struck a nerve here. Funny that this entire site criticizes coaches, players, ADs, schools, bands, parents, communities, and seemingly everyone else under the sun, but criticize officials and you all really come out of the woodwork to stick up for yourselves.
Click to expand...
You didn’t criticize an official for not knowing the game. You hated him for his lack of fitness.
 
cincifbfan said:
Again feel free. I'll be working concessions tomorrow night in NKY. On Saturday I'll be towing the marching band trailer to their competition and helping all day there for my one band kid. Then Sunday we have youth playoffs where ill be most of the day.
Click to expand...
Trust me I enjoy attending games and never have time to remember anyones weight class by the time I get home and check this site.
 
cincifbfan said:
Nope. But clearly I struck a nerve here. Funny that this entire site criticizes coaches, players, ADs, schools, bands, parents, communities, and seemingly everyone else under the sun, but criticize officials and you all really come out of the woodwork to stick up for yourselves.
Click to expand...
And there you have it.....

"You all"

Proof of an axe to grind.


You might want to take a peek at all the criticisms that I lay on officials on here. (you won't because it blows up your silly "you all" claim)

When I criticize, it's not full of embellished observations, it's all based on fact.
 
Rush Limbaugh said:
I HATE it when people say this.

My JV game on Saturday only has two officials assigned to it right now and I’d much rather have an “overweight” third official than do a JV game with two. Like someone else said there are some damn good officials out there that some might call “overweight.” I’d take an overweight official that cares and is knowledgeable over the skinnier official that is there for the money only.

This is not D1 college ball where officials must have an athletic appearance. This is high school where just about everyone out there has a primary gig.

There is accountability for officials. Most crews want playoff assignments and big games in big conferences. Bad crews don’t get the good games or playoff assignments, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
The best officials don’t always get the best games or playoff assignments. C’mon now, you know that stuff goes to those that kiss the assignors butt the most.
 
cincifbfan said:
It's black and white, cut and dry. There's no room for interpretation. They are either on the line or off.
Click to expand...
Not to interject but it “IS” up to the ref to interpret if he thinks the players helmet is breaking the centers waste or not which would make a player on or off the line.

But we do agree that truly overweight officials due the kids a disservice trying to breathe over trying to see what’s going on in a fast paced game.
 
Bidenomics said:
The best officials don’t always get the best games or playoff assignments. C’mon now, you know that stuff goes to those that kiss the assignors butt the most.
Click to expand...
We both can agree that the bad crews are not getting the best games or playoff assignments. Most assignors have a sense of self preservation.

I’ll concede that the best officials don’t always get what they deserve.
 
I am not here to bash officials but just offering a casual observation. I watched the Oakwood/Carlisle game last night on TV. The first thing that stuck out to me where the ages of the officials. The head official had to be 80+ years old and during any penalty, one could see the wheels turning in his head to what the hand signals were to be used. It was impossible for the man to run 10 yards and actually, he never did, just a quickened walk to somewhere around, 15-20 yards, behind the offensive huddle. The other officials, not as old but probably have an AARP card, where overweight and rarely down field on long pass plays. I kind of wondered it there would be a medical emergency for them.

Regardless, they did a decent job but like every game, there were mystery calls and no calls and by the mid 3rd quarter the color commentator was hammering on the officials: "let the kids decide the game"; that looks like an OPI call to make up for a PI made in the second quarter; how could that official miss the OB roughness call when he is standing right there... Did they miss calls? Yes, but I had a chance of replay too. Did they affect the outcome of the game? No.

It seemed obvious to me those dudes are officiating for the love of the game, though it may have passed them by with their age and physical abilities. If the refs are hearing crap from the stands and now from the broadcast booth, why would anyone want to be an official? Young or old, fat or fit.

The bottom line, IMO, the situation with lack of officials has been created by fans in the stands and now it seems broadcasters are in the mix. A friend of mine that has scouted hundreds of HS football games over 30+years told me once; "most parents only watch their kid, many people only watch their team, rarely do any of them watch the game".
 
chs1971 said:
So every official in the NFL and high school is wrong. College too?

And you know better than all of them.

Seek therapy.
Click to expand...
So, is the slot receiver on the bottom on the LOS or are the OTs in the backfield? This was a forward pass where all Wideouts went out for passes. This was a random play I found in about 45 seconds from Sunday's Bengals game.

1728651412425.png
 
cincifbfan said:
So, is the slot receiver on the bottom on the LOS or are the OTs in the backfield? This was a forward pass where all Wideouts went out for passes. This was a random play I found in about 45 seconds from Sunday's Bengals game.

View attachment 66565
Click to expand...
When you first described your argument, I agree and have questioned myself. There are boundaries being pushed. In the example you posted, the LT head appears to hit the hip of the C (close) and the #1 receiver is covering that T. The #2 receiver is behind the #1 receiver, yet looks to be covering the T as well. By virtue of the DB covering him, he is a known eligible receiver to the D. Looking at the #1 receiver on top and greater offset would indicate he is or could be the motion man.

Looking at the RT, he seems be more back than the LT, thus the flex E would be the last man on the line (5th OL) and ineligible...of course number eligibility number here for RT would apply. Then again, all are defensively covered, and it seems no harm, not foul.

IMO, what you have posted is a base formation for all and I kind of see it as the Eurostep.

Just remember, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying, lol.
 
OMG, I missed that play. That formation is so illegal I'm glad I missed it. That game was ruined by the poor officiating shown in that example. I cannot see the refs in that photo but all of them must have been fat and lazy to allow such a terrible and illegal formation. I'm guessing with such an advantage the Bengals won by a ridiculous margin.
 
cincifbfan said:
It's black and white, cut and dry. There's no room for interpretation. They are either on the line or off.
Click to expand...
And it's up to the judgment (right or wrong) of the covering official to make the determination.

100% judgment.

Then again..... you somehow know that the official looked at the formation, saw it was illegal, but still refused to throw the flag. ;)
 
cincifbfan said:
So, is the slot receiver on the bottom on the LOS or are the OTs in the backfield? This was a forward pass where all Wideouts went out for passes. This was a random play I found in about 45 seconds from Sunday's Bengals game.

View attachment 66565
Click to expand...
The slot's legal, the tackles may be about 2 inches too far back, but I'm not sure of the exact NFL interpretation.
 
cincifbfan said:
So, is the slot receiver on the bottom on the LOS or are the OTs in the backfield? This was a forward pass where all Wideouts went out for passes. This was a random play I found in about 45 seconds from Sunday's Bengals game.
Click to expand...
The NFL flagged that lineman's position at least three times in game one of the season. (they flagged the team that fans claim never gets flagged..... KC)

People lost their minds over this so much that the NFL backed off their interpretation and enforcement....

This is what they call spitting hairs...... guess what? Our superiors don't want us to spilt hairs either.
 
Gamma Gobbler said:
I am not here to bash officials but just offering a casual observation. I watched the Oakwood/Carlisle game last night on TV. The first thing that stuck out to me where the ages of the officials. The head official had to be 80+ years old and during any penalty, one could see the wheels turning in his head to what the hand signals were to be used. It was impossible for the man to run 10 yards and actually, he never did, just a quickened walk to somewhere around, 15-20 yards, behind the offensive huddle. The other officials, not as old but probably have an AARP card, where overweight and rarely down field on long pass plays. I kind of wondered it there would be a medical emergency for them.

Regardless, they did a decent job but like every game, there were mystery calls and no calls and by the mid 3rd quarter the color commentator was hammering on the officials: "let the kids decide the game"; that looks like an OPI call to make up for a PI made in the second quarter; how could that official miss the OB roughness call when he is standing right there... Did they miss calls? Yes, but I had a chance of replay too. Did they affect the outcome of the game? No.

It seemed obvious to me those dudes are officiating for the love of the game, though it may have passed them by with their age and physical abilities. If the refs are hearing crap from the stands and now from the broadcast booth, why would anyone want to be an official? Young or old, fat or fit.

The bottom line, IMO, the situation with lack of officials has been created by fans in the stands and now it seems broadcasters are in the mix. A friend of mine that has scouted hundreds of HS football games over 30+years told me once; "most parents only watch their kid, many people only watch their team, rarely do any of them watch the game".
Click to expand...
Well said. I think this also highlights where the problem is that this thread was created for. These older officials simply cannot do JH/Varsity/JV all in a week. So they save up everything for Friday's and then JH & JV games go with 2-3 people because too many officials just cannot handle multiple games in a week.

I would say it's a triple threat, sub varsity games have gotten a bit out of hand which doesn't help retain younger officials earning their stripes before joining a crew full time. The proliferation of the spread offense is simply too much for many of these older officials anymore as the speed of the game has increased noticeably. And finally the wage progression has not kept up with the "real world", in a blue collar heavy state like this where so many rely on overtime it's more lucrative to work an extra hour or two than drive down the road at 4 PM on a Thursday.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
At 1 of our home playoff games last year, someone came and sat in the press box and was rating the crew. It was very insightful to get his prospective on why the officials made the call they did and even the calls they missed and why he felt they missed them.
Click to expand...
It is 100% inappropriate for an observer to discuss what they are seeing with anyone other than the crew and the Director of Officiating Development.

That person has no business observing any game at any time.
 
AllSports12 said:
The NFL flagged that lineman's position at least three times in game one of the season. (they flagged the team that fans claim never gets flagged..... KC)

People lost their minds over this so much that the NFL backed off their interpretation and enforcement....

This is what they call spitting hairs...... guess what? Our superiors don't want us to spilt hairs either.
Click to expand...

What our friend fails to understand is... no one cares how good the official's eyesight is. The less the officials interject themselves into the game the better.

I was always told: "call the big stuff, don't let one team get a competitive advantage by breaking the rules and keep the game moving"

No fan, player or coach wants to see an official get overly technical and have 25+ penalties a game.
 
Rush Limbaugh said:
I was always told: "call the big stuff, don't let one team get a competitive advantage by breaking the rules and keep the game moving"

No fan, player or coach wants to see an official get overly technical and have 25+ penalties a game.
Click to expand...
A perfect example is a DB "holding" a WR on a WR screen to the opposite side of the field 40yds from the "hold".

No official worth ther salt will flag that and no coach in their right mind will want that flagged.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
Well said. I think this also highlights where the problem is that this thread was created for. These older officials simply cannot do JH/Varsity/JV all in a week. So they save up everything for Friday's and then JH & JV games go with 2-3 people because too many officials just cannot handle multiple games in a week.

I would say it's a triple threat, sub varsity games have gotten a bit out of hand which doesn't help retain younger officials earning their stripes before joining a crew full time. The proliferation of the spread offense is simply too much for many of these older officials anymore as the speed of the game has increased noticeably. And finally the wage progression has not kept up with the "real world", in a blue collar heavy state like this where so many rely on overtime it's more lucrative to work an extra hour or two than drive down the road at 4 PM on a Thursday.
Click to expand...
I can say this and without malice, if the head official of the game I watched last night were, in anyway, involved with contact from one of the HS players going game speed, that man would be in the hospital this morning. BTW, who covers those medical expenses of an injured official? The assigner, the school, OHSAA or personal insurance? Many jobs, even government jobs, have minimal physical ability requirements that are not meant to discriminate but to protect.

I cannot disagree with your triple threat statement and well stated. The problem will solve itself when the younger, fitter generation gets out of the stands and officiates the game....and without complaining, lol.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
At 1 of our home playoff games last year, someone came and sat in the press box and was rating the crew. It was very insightful to get his prospective on why the officials made the call they did and even the calls they missed and why he felt they missed them.


Sounds like we need to fix the abusive behavior from fans before we can even begin to draw new officials into the game at the rate we need. How we go about that is obviously up in the air.
Click to expand...
That was odd the rater would be in the press box. They are usually on the field and follow the LOS with their clipboard. To say anything to anybody, on the field or in the box, is not ethical. They are after all, a part of the crew they are rating and to speak with anyone would undermine the integrity of the crew.
 
Gamma Gobbler said:
I can say this and without malice, if the head official of the game I watched last night were, in anyway, involved with contact from one of the HS players going game speed, that man would be in the hospital this morning. BTW, who covers those medical expenses of an injured official? The assigner, the school, OHSAA or personal insurance? Many jobs, even government jobs, have minimal physical ability requirements that are not meant to discriminate but to protect.

I cannot disagree with your triple threat statement and well stated. The problem will solve itself when the younger, fitter generation gets out of the stands and officiates the game....and without complaining, lol.
Click to expand...
officials have secondary insurance through their OHSAA permits which helps cover the cost of on-field injuries that primary insurance does not cover. So the answer is mostly personal insurance, with some help from OHSAA insurance.
 
Gamma Gobbler said:
That was odd the rater would be in the press box. They are usually on the field and follow the LOS with their clipboard. To say anything to anybody, on the field or in the box, is not ethical. They are after all, a part of the crew they are rating and to speak with anyone would undermine the integrity of the crew.
Click to expand...
Been in the press box for many an observation over the years. Some have room for us, some do not.
 
chs1971 said:
The slot's legal, the tackles may be about 2 inches too far back, but I'm not sure of the exact NFL interpretation.
Click to expand...
And there in lies the problem. That slot is on the LOS by both NFL and NFHS standards. His helmet crosses the center's waistline which is the NFL interpretation. It would be even more on the LOS under NFHS. But again, it's getting ignored by officials despite NFHS putting it out there to specifically penalize without warning.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top