The Official 2023 Cincinnati Reds Thread

14Red

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Reds trade Daura Moreta to the Pirates for SS Kevin Newman. The Jose Barrero experience is over.
 

AEW Champion

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The non-tender deadline is Friday, so it’ll be interesting to see who else gets the boot, if anyone. The main name to watch is Kyle Farmer. Will they want to pay around $6 million for a 32-year-old who’s best use is as a utility guy against LH pitchers? Maybe Solak is a cheaper replacement for Farmer?
Indeed they didn’t want to pay $6 million for Farmer.

Instead they’ll pay around half of that for former Pirate Kevin Newman (who they traded Dauri Moreta for tonight), as well as probably the league min for Nick Solak.

And the Twins pitcher maybe develops into a useful reliever, who knows?

All in all, this is fine. Newman can play SS if Barrero continues to suck or maybe 3B and then cede the way as soon as the big prospects are ready to play.

It was funny to see half of Reds Twitter melt down, though.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

AEW Champion

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Reds trade Daura Moreta to the Pirates for SS Kevin Newman. The Jose Barrero experience is over.
I don’t think that’s it for Barrero, but he’s going to be on a very short leash if he looks like crap in spring training and early in the season.

I assume Spencer Steer is the Reds’ starting 3B next year unless they move India over there and put Steer at 2B.

The 2B/SS/3B depth is pretty much set to start the season, with India, Barrero and Steer as probable starters, with Newman and Solak as the bench guys. All those guys combined can’t be making more than half of what Moustakas will make.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

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Indeed they didn’t want to pay $6 million for Farmer.

Instead they’ll pay around half of that for former Pirate Kevin Newman (who they traded Dauri Moreta for tonight), as well as probably the league min for Nick Solak.

And the Twins pitcher maybe develops into a useful reliever, who knows?

All in all, this is fine. Newman can play SS if Barrero continues to suck or maybe 3B and then cede the way as soon as the big prospects are ready to play.

It was funny to see half of Reds Twitter melt down, though.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Funny thing is if the "fans" on Reds Twitter ran the team, We'd have a $200 million dollar payroll and not be much better. Our fans "like" players and it just shoots up the value. Some fans find it tough to separate emotion.
We'll miss Kyle Farmer, he's a true rags to riches story who filled so many gaps for this team the last couple of seasons. But as the MLB union contract goes, the longer guys are around, they get paid weather their production increases or not. I remember Reds 4th/ 5th outifelder Chris Heisey was lost due to his salary becoming more than his value to the team.
 

AEW Champion

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Funny thing is if the "fans" on Reds Twitter ran the team, We'd have a $200 million dollar payroll and not be much better. Our fans "like" players and it just shoots up the value. Some fans find it tough to separate emotion.
There are assuredly people who want a huge payroll — and who could blame them?

But the big faux pas with a good chunk of Reds Twitter is getting enamored with marginal players just because they were a flash in the pan or because they weren’t supposed to be good but ended up being half-decent. I’m talking about guys like Scooter Gennett, Derek Dietrich, Kyle Farmer and to a lesser extent guys like Tyler Naquin and Tucker Barnhart.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

(P.S. Any $200 million payroll, no matter how poorly spent, would blow the current version of the Cincinnati Reds out of the water.)
 

AEW Champion

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I know it’s a pipe dream in a world in which the Castellinis exist, but buying low on Cody Bellinger and Jesse Winker could result in a fun, productive all-lefty outfield with those two and Jake Fraley.

It’s not like the Reds are going to be spending much money elsewhere besides Votto, Mistake-as and maybe a depth starting pitcher.

Worst case, Winker and Bellinger don’t improve and it’s a meaningless one-year mistake in a year 99% sure to be bad with the current options. Medium case, they play well enough to get flipped at the deadline for prospects. Best case, one of them has a renaissance, enjoys being with the young Reds, and becomes a legit option to stay long-term to shore up the outfield as well as providing a power lefty bat to go along with De La Cruz.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

GCPRO

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I don’t know Bellinger but bringing Winker back and expecting him to be a positive influence on the younger players would be a mistake. Certainly nowhere near that type of individual the first time around. They just traded the individual that would fill that spot.
 

AEW Champion

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I don’t know Bellinger but bringing Winker back and expecting him to be a positive influence on the younger players would be a mistake. Certainly nowhere near that type of individual the first time around. They just traded the individual that would fill that spot.
They’ve got the coaches and Votto and India and Stephenson for that. I want more players that can knock the ball out of the park.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Reds trade Daura Moreta to the Pirates for SS Kevin Newman. The Jose Barrero experience is over.
Newman is 29, has 4+ years in the bigs and an OPS around .660. Only a moronic front office would bring him in as the starter at SS over a talented prospect like Barrero (age 24) who MIGHT become an big time player. Newman will be a utility player, unless of course the Reds are morons, which is a distinct possibility.

We are losing 95-105 again this year, we need to find out if the young guys can make progress. Barrero needs 500 plate appearances this year.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Funny thing is if the "fans" on Reds Twitter ran the team, We'd have a $200 million dollar payroll and not be much better.
LOL. If Krall and his dopes were the ones spending the $200 million, you may be right. We'd have a bunch of Moustakas, Pham, Strickland and Minor guys on the roster.

If a baseball GM with a slightly above average IQ spent the $200 million, the team would beat the current Reds roster by 30 games in the standings.
 

14Red

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Newman is 29, has 4+ years in the bigs and an OPS around .660. Only a moronic front office would bring him in as the starter at SS over a talented prospect like Barrero (age 24) who MIGHT become an big time player. Newman will be a utility player, unless of course the Reds are morons, which is a distinct possibility.

We are losing 95-105 again this year, we need to find out if the young guys can make progress. Barrero needs 500 plate appearances this year.
I'm going to guess you didn't see the last two months of this season. I don't ever see Barrero becoming a big time player. He REALLY struggled at the plate even making contact. I really feel the Reds are done with him. He's simply not a major league caliber player. I'd have to see a huge spring training to even keep him on the 26 man roster.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I'm going to guess you didn't see the last two months of this season. I don't ever see Barrero becoming a big time player. He REALLY struggled at the plate even making contact. I really feel the Reds are done with him. He's simply not a major league caliber player. I'd have to see a huge spring training to even keep him on the 26 man roster.
I saw his stats and some of his AB's, although not many since the team was unwatchable. Yes, he was mostly awful. However, you look at his size, speed, power and athleticism. He is 24 with potential. Baseball is hard and the MLB level can take some time to figure it out.

Why would a team that is obviously rebuilding, and probably losing 100 games, give his ABs to a guy who will be 30 when the season starts? A 30 year old who has a 4 year track record of being below average? The answer is stupidity.

It sounds like that is your choice? Taking the 30 year old who might get you from 65 wins to 68 in 2023? Or do you want to try to find something great for the future? Jeez. You really might be qualified to work in the Reds front office with that mentality.

PS. That was not a compliment.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I saw his stats and some of his AB's, although not many since the team was unwatchable. Yes, he was mostly awful. However, you look at his size, speed, power and athleticism. He is 24 with potential. Baseball is hard and the MLB level can take some time to figure it out.

Why would a team that is obviously rebuilding, and probably losing 100 games, give his ABs to a guy who will be 30 when the season starts? A 30 year old who has a 4 year track record of being below average? The answer is stupidity.

It sounds like that is your choice? Taking the 30 year old who might get you from 65 wins to 68 in 2023? Or do you want to try to find something great for the future? Jeez. You really might be qualified to work in the Reds front office with that mentality.

PS. That was not a compliment.
I think you're automatically canning the 2023 season. I do feel the Reds are going to TRY to win, now not by going out and spending $150 mill in FA's like you want, but by putting a solid lineup on the field. Look at the Guardians everyday lineup last season, not much punch in that lineup. We need guys that get on base and move runners. I think our starting pitching can be really good. The bullpen...well, that's another story but I think they are going to try to address bullpen needs as well.
All I'm saying is even though Barrero is 24, I just don't think he's ever going to be a regular major leaguer. No shade, alot of guys get up there and can't hit, he wouldn't be the first. Newman isn't an all star, but he's been a major leaguer for 5 seasons, he's proven he belongs.
 

AEW Champion

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I keep waiting for the Reds to post the Main Stage schedule to see whether it’s worth it to go to RedsFest on Friday the 2nd. If there’s a Krall and Phil Q&A session, I might have to go since that could be highly entertaining.

But no way am I giving the Reds any attention on Saturday the 3rd since that’s college football conference championship Saturday.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I think you're automatically canning the 2023 season. I do feel the Reds are going to TRY to win, now not by going out and spending $150 mill in FA's like you want, but by putting a solid lineup on the field. Look at the Guardians everyday lineup last season, not much punch in that lineup. We need guys that get on base and move runners. I think our starting pitching can be really good. The bullpen...well, that's another story but I think they are going to try to address bullpen needs as well.
All I'm saying is even though Barrero is 24, I just don't think he's ever going to be a regular major leaguer. No shade, alot of guys get up there and can't hit, he wouldn't be the first. Newman isn't an all star, but he's been a major leaguer for 5 seasons, he's proven he belongs.
Got it. You give up on the talented kid with 280 career ABs chopped up over 3 partial seasons. You like the "proven" guy with 1500+ ABs with barely .300 OBP and .660 OPS. He's proven he is mediocre, and that's good enough for you.

I'd prefer we try to develop someone who has a chance of being above average. Be realistic about 2023, and stick to the rebuild plan. Why do you think the Pirates dumped Newman? Because he is not a factor in their rebuild plan. So now the Reds have stooped to taking Pirates rejects. And you love it.
 

AEW Champion

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I think you're automatically canning the 2023 season. I do feel the Reds are going to TRY to win, now not by going out and spending $150 mill in FA's like you want, but by putting a solid lineup on the field. Look at the Guardians everyday lineup last season, not much punch in that lineup. We need guys that get on base and move runners. I think our starting pitching can be really good. The bullpen...well, that's another story but I think they are going to try to address bullpen needs as well.
All I'm saying is even though Barrero is 24, I just don't think he's ever going to be a regular major leaguer. No shade, alot of guys get up there and can't hit, he wouldn't be the first. Newman isn't an all star, but he's been a major leaguer for 5 seasons, he's proven he belongs.
1. The Guardians were a pretty mediocre offense. Something like 15th in runs, 16th in OPS. That’s not exactly aiming high to want to be their offense or emulate their results. I want a better offense than that, frankly.

2. I think the starting pitching is a major question mark. We think Lodolo and Greene will be really good if they stay healthy, but are they ready to get through a full season’s workload? And what about the rest of the staff? Ashcraft was hot for awhile but wasn’t good at the tail end of the year coming off an injury. His low strikeout rate (6.1 per 9 IP) bears watching, and his ERA was a not-good 4.89. Then you’ve got either Justin Dunn, Luis Cessa, Connor Overton or Brandon Williamson occupying the 4 and 5 spots. All of them are question marks, and I feel confident saying you’re not gaining an advantage over the league in the long run if Cessa or Overton are part of the rotation. The Reds really need to sign a #3-caliber veteran starting pitcher to avoid the attrition that destroyed the rotation last year.

3. Don’t hold your breath that the Reds will make any concerted effort to fix the bullpen. It’s much more likely Krall says, “Sims, Antone and Santillan are coming back. We’ll be fine.” Problem is, can Sims stay healthy? What is Antone going to look like since he was likely a sticky-stuff merchant?

4. I’d rather have Barrero play every day at least until the All-Star break to give him a real chance to find himself at the major league level. Starting Kevin Newman over him would be a total waste of time.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

Well-known member
1. The Guardians were a pretty mediocre offense. Something like 15th in runs, 16th in OPS. That’s not exactly aiming high to want to be their offense or emulate their results. I want a better offense than that, frankly.

2. I think the starting pitching is a major question mark. We think Lodolo and Greene will be really good if they stay healthy, but are they ready to get through a full season’s workload? And what about the rest of the staff? Ashcraft was hot for awhile but wasn’t good at the tail end of the year coming off an injury. His low strikeout rate (6.1 per 9 IP) bears watching, and his ERA was a not-good 4.89. Then you’ve got either Justin Dunn, Luis Cessa, Connor Overton or Brandon Williamson occupying the 4 and 5 spots. All of them are question marks, and I feel confident saying you’re not gaining an advantage over the league in the long run if Cessa or Overton are part of the rotation. The Reds really need to sign a #3-caliber veteran starting pitcher to avoid the attrition that destroyed the rotation last year.

3. Don’t hold your breath that the Reds will make any concerted effort to fix the bullpen. It’s much more likely Krall says, “Sims, Antone and Santillan are coming back. We’ll be fine.” Problem is, can Sims stay healthy? What is Antone going to look like since he was likely a sticky-stuff merchant?

4. I’d rather have Barrero play every day at least until the All-Star break to give him a real chance to find himself at the major league level. Starting Kevin Newman over him would be a total waste of time.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
The Guardians hit the lottery with a couple of their young guys, Kwan especially. But they were kind of a throw back in that they had very little punch in their lineup outside of Jose Ramirez, who may be the best player no one knows about. The Reds do not have that player.

Yes, the Reds have alot of gaps and holes going into 2023 and let's just hope that somehow, we can stay healthy and see what guys can do. Some of our best bullpen guys didn't pitch last season. You are correct, Greene and Lodolo will be on innings limits.

Bullpens are the easiest to fix, now can the Reds pick the right guys to sign, who knows? Reliever markets have gone up as we see that's a big, big part of baseball now.

I just don't see a reason to keep running Barrero out there everyday. He simply can't hit major league pitching. The real telling thing for me was there was little to no adjustments by him. He never seems to try to avoid striking out. He's got a long swing and guys with a good slider just eat him alive. Up and in fastball, down and away slider and he's cooked.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
The Guardians hit the lottery with a couple of their young guys, Kwan especially. But they were kind of a throw back in that they had very little punch in their lineup outside of Jose Ramirez, who may be the best player no one knows about. The Reds do not have that player.

Yes, the Reds have alot of gaps and holes going into 2023 and let's just hope that somehow, we can stay healthy and see what guys can do. Some of our best bullpen guys didn't pitch last season. You are correct, Greene and Lodolo will be on innings limits.

Bullpens are the easiest to fix, now can the Reds pick the right guys to sign, who knows? Reliever markets have gone up as we see that's a big, big part of baseball now.

I just don't see a reason to keep running Barrero out there everyday. He simply can't hit major league pitching. The real telling thing for me was there was little to no adjustments by him. He never seems to try to avoid striking out. He's got a long swing and guys with a good slider just eat him alive. Up and in fastball, down and away slider and he's cooked.
You may be right. Maybe Barrero never figures it out. Maybe there is only a 25% chance he listens to coaching and figures it out. That is still 25% more than the chance that a mediocre re-tread like Newman is a big part of the future success.
 

14Red

Well-known member
You may be right. Maybe Barrero never figures it out. Maybe there is only a 25% chance he listens to coaching and figures it out. That is still 25% more than the chance that a mediocre re-tread like Newman is a big part of the future success.
Newman would only be a one year deal, I'd project that one of our 6-7 shortstops would be ready to go by 2024. Newman can also be an infield floater. Lord knows we have a ton of those guys.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Newman would only be a one year deal, I'd project that one of our 6-7 shortstops would be ready to go by 2024. Newman can also be an infield floater. Lord knows we have a ton of those guys.
Thanks for making my point for me. Yes, Newman would be a one year deal, so why waste ABs in a rebuilding/losing season on someone who is not part of the future plan?

Glad we agree.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Thanks for making my point for me. Yes, Newman would be a one year deal, so why waste ABs in a rebuilding/losing season on someone who is not part of the future plan?

Glad we agree.
That doesn't make your point. It's not wasting AB's. We are trying to win games, that's why you play. Votto's not part of the future plan, you think he's getting released? He'll be in the #3 hole daily all season.
 

AEW Champion

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We are trying to win games, that's why you play.
The organization is not trying to win in 2023. Nearly every action they’ve taken tells you that. Of course the players are trying to win, but as we saw this season, they are currently severely outmanned.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

Well-known member
The organization is not trying to win in 2023. Nearly every action they’ve taken tells you that. Of course the players are trying to win, but as we saw this season, they are currently severely outmanned.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
My opinion, I think they are trying to win more than you think. BUT! But in keeping with the ultimate plan of not overspending on talent. Kevin Newman is a solid major leaguer who'll give you a solid performance day by day. Newman's not an all star, but he's not Alejo Lopez and Alex Blandino.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
My opinion, I think they are trying to win more than you think. BUT! But in keeping with the ultimate plan of not overspending on talent. Kevin Newman is a solid major leaguer who'll give you a solid performance day by day. Newman's not an all star, but he's not Alejo Lopez and Alex Blandino.
He's also not Kyle Farmer.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
14Red, serious question so we all get a baseline on what your opinion of the Reds trying to win next year…what do you think the organization’t goal is? .500, playoff contention at trade deadline, make the playoffs or any other outcome you can think of?
 

14Red

Well-known member
14Red, serious question so we all get a baseline on what your opinion of the Reds trying to win next year…what do you think the organization’t goal is? .500, playoff contention at trade deadline, make the playoffs or any other outcome you can think of?
The organizaion's OVERALL goal is to build a competitive team that can compete year in and year out within the organization's budget. We talk about this on here all the time, The Reds can't be the Phillies and pay their best players all 5-6 year deals for over $100 million AND groom players for the future. Now it worked for them this past season - kind of - remember they barely made the newly expanded playoffs.
So the Reds have finally decided to trade some of their players who had some value - Sonny Gray, Mahle, Winker, and get some high level prospects and add them to our own prospects. We already have a nice start of a starting rotation with Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft, and we have numerous high level prospects in single A ball.
So realistically for 2023, my opinion...
  • Continued development of Green, Lodolo and Ashcraft
  • put together a back end of the bullpen that can be reliable for more than a few weeks - this has been sore spot for this organization for years
  • Make a final determination on NIck Senzel. Is he going to be an everyday player that they can invest in or not - and it's not looking good
  • Big years for Tyler Stephenson and Jonathan India. Are they going to be the next greats for the Reds, or talented guys who are always hurt?
Realistically, I would say if they can stay in contention for the first 3-4 months of the season, that would surpass anyone's reasonable expectation. If you are such that it's world series or bust every year, good luck to you.
 
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