The Official 2021 Cincinnati Reds Thread

wolves82 said:
Reds may have found something in Gutierrez. Kid seems to know how to pitch. Who takes Sonny's turn in the rotation for the next 2 starts? Santillan maybe?
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Saw a report that the Reds may be entertaining Jeff Hoffman..gulp. He's due to come off the DL soon.
 
wolves82 said:
Reds may have found something in Gutierrez. Kid seems to know how to pitch. Who takes Sonny's turn in the rotation for the next 2 starts? Santillan maybe?
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Really have to like what he's brought to the team. Gotta ride him as long as we can.
 
Put Hoffman in the bullpen and find someone else. The guy doesn't have the stuff to go through the lineup multiple times. Walks way too many people. He'll fit right in with the rest of the pen.
 
Add Lodolo, Greene, Santillan and Jose and this team would be pretty good. Trade Suarez, Votto, Senzel and Garrett for a couple relievers
Mahle
Gutierrez
Lodolo
Greene
Miley
1B Stevenson
2B India
SS Jose
3B Farmer
C Barnhart
LF Winker
CF Shogo
RF Castelanos
Youth movement and a competitive team with star power
 
zeeman said:
Add Lodolo, Greene, Santillan and Jose and this team would be pretty good. Trade Suarez, Votto, Senzel and Garrett for a couple relievers
Mahle
Gutierrez
Lodolo
Greene
Miley
1B Stevenson
2B India
SS Jose
3B Farmer
C Barnhart
LF Winker
CF Shogo
RF Castelanos
Youth movement and a competitive team with star power
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You're going to try to trade a guy way underperforming, a guy who's very old and expensive, a guy who's hurt all the time and the most ineffective relief pitcher we have?? Good luck with that.
Now for 2023 and beyond, I could see Lodolo, Greene, Santillan, Mahle, Gutierrez, Stevenson, India, Jose, Winker, Shogo and Suarez.

I've said the Reds can firmly straddle the fence the next season or two. They have some good young talent and some hopefully franchise type top end of the rotation pitchers. But they also have enough now that they can be competitive.
 
14Red said:
I respectfully disagree. I would say more kids / young adults have more arm injuries related to baseball than ever before. We are not training them to be pitcher. I always use the analogy that you don't decide to run a marathon and do it next week. It takes months to train the body to run 26 miles. You pace yourself. We need to train kids - from high school - to pace their pitches. There is no reason after a few months of ramping up a high school kid can't throw 100 pitches in a game. We can't even get 30 year old men to throw 80 pitches in a major league game anymore.
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So you disagreed by agreeing to my statement. Again, The body is not built to throw a baseball. it really isn't meant to throw 100MPH every pitch. As long as we're expecting guys to throw hard every single pitch....you aren't going to get long starts and arms are going to continue to shred. When guy's were throwing 80-85 mph they threw a ton more pitches because it was less stress on the body.

You can build and condition the muscles involved but ligament damage still happens.
 
brianwr112 said:
So you disagreed by agreeing to my statement. Again, The body is not built to throw a baseball. it really isn't meant to throw 100MPH every pitch. As long as we're expecting guys to throw hard every single pitch....you aren't going to get long starts and arms are going to continue to shred. When guy's were throwing 80-85 mph they threw a ton more pitches because it was less stress on the body.

You can build and condition the muscles involved but ligament damage still happens.
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My misunderstanding. The overuse injuries of the 60's and 70's involved more of "kids" throwing throwing tons of pitches and innings, not adults. Heck the two guys on my little league team never pitched in high school. Their arms were shot. But now we've swung too far the other way where we don't allow athletes to push themselves.
 
14Red said:
My misunderstanding. The overuse injuries of the 60's and 70's involved more of "kids" throwing throwing tons of pitches and innings, not adults. Heck the two guys on my little league team never pitched in high school. Their arms were shot. But now we've swung too far the other way where we don't allow athletes to push themselves.
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We don't allow them to push themselves because we're already asking them to do something that is different from games past. They're throwing much harder and with way more movement. Again, all moves already unnatural for the body. You're simply don't understand that the human body has limitations. When you try to push it past it's limit on every single pitch it breaks down.
 
zeeman said:
Add Lodolo, Greene, Santillan and Jose and this team would be pretty good. Trade Suarez, Votto, Senzel and Garrett for a couple relievers
Mahle
Gutierrez
Lodolo
Greene
Miley
1B Stevenson
2B India
SS Jose
3B Farmer
C Barnhart
LF Winker
CF Shogo
RF Castelanos
Youth movement and a competitive team with star power
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LOL. So ridiculously unrealistic.

As I said above, only a moron "sells low"...
 
zeeman said:
So your strategy is to keep biding your time year after year ?
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There are 29 teams who would not take Suarez or Votto this year. If by some miracle someone did, the Reds would still be paying their salary as a condition of the trade and you sure as hell aren't getting a major league reliever for them.
 
zeeman said:
So your strategy is to keep biding your time year after year ?
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I've explained it multiple times. You are just too dense to understand.
- Votto is untradeable due to contract
- trading Suarez, Garrett (or any commodity) at it's lowest possible value is stupid. Thus you favor the idea.
- rushing Greene and Lodolo to the Reds causes us to lose them sooner, and possibly hampers their development.

Stop being dumb.
 
I think the real culprit this year is the Reds management. None of us have really spelled this out, but think about it:
- Reds were pretty bad / rebuilding from about 2012-2019
- Management stepped up, got Suarez signed up to a fair deal, and he responded with a huge 2019.
- Management stepped up, and snagged Bauer, Sonny, Moose, Castellanos, Shogo and Miley for a serious run and 2-3 year window of opportunity
- Then, after making the playoffs in 2020, they decide to back off?

I realize Bauer was not signable at his price tag, and it was time for R. Iglesias to leave. But we really had no significant adds. If you spend that much, and appear to commit to the 2-3 year window of opportunity, how do you not add some pieces to keep the window open? Specifically to the pitching staff after losing a Cy Young winner and your closer?

Basically they punted on third down. I realize the loss of revenue to COVID hurt the team pocketbook, but really an odd decision this past off season to stand pat.
 
wolves82 said:
I think the real culprit this year is the Reds management. None of us have really spelled this out, but think about it:
- Reds were pretty bad / rebuilding from about 2012-2019
- Management stepped up, got Suarez signed up to a fair deal, and he responded with a huge 2019.
- Management stepped up, and snagged Bauer, Sonny, Moose, Castellanos, Shogo and Miley for a serious run and 2-3 year window of opportunity
- Then, after making the playoffs in 2020, they decide to back off?

I realize Bauer was not signable at his price tag, and it was time for R. Iglesias to leave. But we really had no significant adds. If you spend that much, and appear to commit to the 2-3 year window of opportunity, how do you not add some pieces to keep the window open? Specifically to the pitching staff after losing a Cy Young winner and your closer?

Basically they punted on third down. I realize the loss of revenue to COVID hurt the team pocketbook, but really an odd decision this past off season to stand pat.
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I think when they got aggressive prior to 2019 they did the right thing to push through the rebuild, but now they seem to have regressed them back into a rebuild mode after essentially doing nothing in 2020. The state of the bullpen right now really makes them not a serious team, no matter what their record is. To make matters worse, the farm system is not full up on MLB ready prospects. It's fairly depleted and if Lodolo, Greene, or Garcia end up not working out, coupled with Votto essentially fading into the sunset, Suarez never getting right, and Castellanos opting out after the season, they are in real trouble.
 
wolves82 said:
I think the real culprit this year is the Reds management. None of us have really spelled this out, but think about it:
- Reds were pretty bad / rebuilding from about 2012-2019
- Management stepped up, got Suarez signed up to a fair deal, and he responded with a huge 2019.
- Management stepped up, and snagged Bauer, Sonny, Moose, Castellanos, Shogo and Miley for a serious run and 2-3 year window of opportunity
- Then, after making the playoffs in 2020, they decide to back off?

I realize Bauer was not signable at his price tag, and it was time for R. Iglesias to leave. But we really had no significant adds. If you spend that much, and appear to commit to the 2-3 year window of opportunity, how do you not add some pieces to keep the window open? Specifically to the pitching staff after losing a Cy Young winner and your closer?

Basically they punted on third down. I realize the loss of revenue to COVID hurt the team pocketbook, but really an odd decision this past off season to stand pat.
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There's more to the story....

Castellini Companies has had some very trying times over the winter.

I imagine that impacted decisions for Reds payroll.
 
wolves82 said:
I've explained it multiple times. You are just too dense to understand.
- Votto is untradeable due to contract
- trading Suarez, Garrett (or any commodity) at it's lowest possible value is stupid. Thus you favor the idea.
- rushing Greene and Lodolo to the Reds causes us to lose them sooner, and possibly hampers their development.

Stop being dumb.
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So the Reds are stuck with dead weight Votto, Garrett and the Mexican. Sounds like they have made some bad decisions over the years and likely will continue this trend
 
Gh0st said:
I think when they got aggressive prior to 2019 they did the right thing to push through the rebuild, but now they seem to have regressed them back into a rebuild mode after essentially doing nothing in 2020. The state of the bullpen right now really makes them not a serious team, no matter what their record is. To make matters worse, the farm system is not full up on MLB ready prospects. It's fairly depleted and if Lodolo, Greene, or Garcia end up not working out, coupled with Votto essentially fading into the sunset, Suarez never getting right, and Castellanos opting out after the season, they are in real trouble.
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?
 
wolves82 said:
I think the real culprit this year is the Reds management. None of us have really spelled this out, but think about it:
- Reds were pretty bad / rebuilding from about 2012-2019
- Management stepped up, got Suarez signed up to a fair deal, and he responded with a huge 2019.
- Management stepped up, and snagged Bauer, Sonny, Moose, Castellanos, Shogo and Miley for a serious run and 2-3 year window of opportunity
- Then, after making the playoffs in 2020, they decide to back off?

I realize Bauer was not signable at his price tag, and it was time for R. Iglesias to leave. But we really had no significant adds. If you spend that much, and appear to commit to the 2-3 year window of opportunity, how do you not add some pieces to keep the window open? Specifically to the pitching staff after losing a Cy Young winner and your closer?

Basically they punted on third down. I realize the loss of revenue to COVID hurt the team pocketbook, but really an odd decision this past off season to stand pat.
Click to expand...
As fans we have zero control over the club. We have only the ability to root for, or not root for the team - of the players they have. I've never been one to blame management because they don't play the games. Bob Castellini and Nick Krall dont' strikeout, make errors or give up home runs.

What you laid out is 100% true, the Reds did not reinvest in the bullpen, with losses of Iglesias and Lorenzen being hurt, we knew the bullpen was going to be an issue. We also put alot of trust in Derek Johnson as a PC to make the mediocre look good and the good look great. The window isn't open or closed, the Reds are a mediocre team with flaws.
1. they have no team speed so manufacturing runs isn't an option
2. the bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and we just lost our best bullpen arm for at least 3 weeks.

None of us know the financial picture of the ball club. If you don't have the money, you can't go sign players. Maybe the asking price for bullpen arms was too much? We don't know that. Standing pat doesn't mean they didn't try and it's really not for them to even tell us that. I'm always amazed how easy it is for fans to spend the owner's money.

I'll continue rooting for this team, The long term future looks bright. Greene, Lodolo, Santillian, India, Stephenson should lead us into the middle and second half of the decade. That doesn't guarantee championships, but we should be able to contend.
 
14Red said:
As fans we have zero control over the club. We have only the ability to root for, or not root for the team - of the players they have. I've never been one to blame management because they don't play the games. Bob Castellini and Nick Krall dont' strikeout, make errors or give up home runs.
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This is awesome. Thank you for clearing up the confusion that fans do not control the club; I thought I was in charge. Also you cleared up the the obvious confusion that Castellini and Krall don't play. Such a dope. But management is 100% responsible for which players are on the roster. How can you say they are blameless?

I will also continue rooting for this team. That doesn't mean I won't question their decisions and actions.
 
zeeman said:
So the Reds are stuck with dead weight Votto, Garrett and the Mexican. Sounds like they have made some bad decisions over the years and likely will continue this trend
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4th time was the charm, you got it! You should be proud.

By next year we will be glad we have Suarez, BTW. He will bounce back to his career norms.
 
14Red said:
As fans we have zero control over the club. We have only the ability to root for, or not root for the team - of the players they have. I've never been one to blame management because they don't play the games. Bob Castellini and Nick Krall dont' strikeout, make errors or give up home runs.

What you laid out is 100% true, the Reds did not reinvest in the bullpen, with losses of Iglesias and Lorenzen being hurt, we knew the bullpen was going to be an issue. We also put alot of trust in Derek Johnson as a PC to make the mediocre look good and the good look great. The window isn't open or closed, the Reds are a mediocre team with flaws.
1. they have no team speed so manufacturing runs isn't an option
2. the bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and we just lost our best bullpen arm for at least 3 weeks.

None of us know the financial picture of the ball club. If you don't have the money, you can't go sign players. Maybe the asking price for bullpen arms was too much? We don't know that. Standing pat doesn't mean they didn't try and it's really not for them to even tell us that. I'm always amazed how easy it is for fans to spend the owner's money.

I'll continue rooting for this team, The long term future looks bright. Greene, Lodolo, Santillian, India, Stephenson should lead us into the middle and second half of the decade. That doesn't guarantee championships, but we should be able to contend.
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You can control whether or not you pay money to see the team. If management doesn't at least make an effort to put a competitive team on the field then I may spend my money elsewhere. I like baseball and I like the Reds, so my tolerance is high, but it's not limitless.
 
Gh0st said:
You can control whether or not you pay money to see the team. If management doesn't at least make an effort to put a competitive team on the field then I may spend my money elsewhere. I like baseball and I like the Reds, so my tolerance is high, but it's not limitless.
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Cannot like this post enough!
 
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