Public vs. Private

[Termite2]

The public school district I live in has students from 11 communities in 3 counties and made it to the playoffs last year where they had only made it once in the previous 10 years. I doubt they would have made it last year if they didn't have students from 3 counties and 11 communities

 

[Jake22]

The public school district I live in has students from 11 communities in 3 counties and made it to the playoffs last year where they had only made it once in the previous 10 years. I doubt they would have made it last year if they didn't have students from 3 counties and 11 communities

Don’t you read this site. Public schools never have kids from outside the district. Lol

 

[CCHS93]

It’s actually really simple.
These private schools make environments that are more attractive to young athletes than their public schools.

Very true. Thats the underappreciated part. Ive seen the differences in kids first hand.

 

[Jaws31]

Very true. Thats the underappreciated part. Ive seen the differences in kids first hand.

I wish more people would get this. The difference that our school has had on my kids is almost unmeasurable.

 

[NWORocket]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

 

[CCHS93]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

The public schools recruit just as much as private schools. Don't kid yourself.

I work with someone who played hockey 2 districts over in high school because his district's team wasn't good. And that was in the 1990's.

Ever wonder how Cleveland Glenville could produce great football teams but literally every other team in the Cleveland public school league was awful?
Or how Toledo Start had great baseball teams in the 1980's and 1990's but no other Toledo team came even close?
Or how Toledo Whitmer's starting QB on their state runner up football team lived in Michigan?
Or how Sylvania Northview continually has good hockey teams but Sylvania Southview does not?
Or Rossford's basketball team from this year had several non-Rossford kids on it?
The list can go on and on.

To be sure, Glenville, Start, Whitmer, and Northview in these examples all had good programs and good coaches. And they had to play hard and win tough games. But they found 'creative' ways to get kids to their schools. But here's the thing. I don't give a crap if someone wants to go to a particular school and play whatever. No district owns a kid. If a family wants to send their kid to any school, let them.

Public schools have the opportunity to update their way of doing things. Instead many don't succeed at whatever sports. Instead of trying to get better and be more attractive to families and prospective players, they demand everyone else do things their own failing way.

And if you think its only about sports, think again. If a public school has a bad sports program, a family will try to figure out a way to go elsewhere. If they have a bad academic offering, a family with a gifted kid will also try to go elsewhere.

The key is to adapt and survive. Equal opportunity is the goal. NOT equal outcome.

 

[big medicine]

This got me curious so I checked the records. These were the combined results of the 10 members of the Midwest Athletic Conference ( 9 public 1 private ) over those same 10 years. I added their total state championships to the right of each catagory. The thing that concernes me is one of those zeros follows a catagory that we actually field teams in ( softball ). I did not include the 16 additional state titles won during that time frame in cross country, track & field, golf, and bowling.

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools MAC 12 (18% )
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools MAC 4 ( 9% )
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools MAC 0
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools MAC 0
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools MAC 4 ( 9% )
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools MAC 4 ( 9% )
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools MAC 0
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools MAC 2 ( 5% )
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools MAC O

 

[SeeYaSometime]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

You are basing your comments on data that’s 11 years old? Long before CB was established. You are funny.

 

[Jake22]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

Did someone have a bad experience in HS? Hope you work it out.

 

[ShoelessJoe]

63
244 enrollment [244+63= 307 for Basketball]


Yes
Tier 0 = each student on a particular team’s roster meeting the criteria of this factor, multiplied by 0 (so that number will always be 0) Tier 1 = each student on a particular team’s roster meeting the criteria of this factor, multiplied by 1 (so that number will always be 1) Tier 2 = each student on a particular team’s roster meeting the criteria of this factor, multiplied by the sport specific factor (Football = 3; Soccer, Volleyball, Basketball, Baseball, & Softball = 7)

The competitive balance numbers do very little. They are based on the number of players from outside the schools geographic area / district. They need to be based on the population of the area the players are from. It is much different for SVSM getting the 5 best basketball players from greater Akron, than Delphos St. Johns getting the 5 best players from Van Wert, Spencerville, Ft. Jennings area. They should be adding at least 500 (not 63)to the enrollment of SVSM based on where their players come from. If they can't do that, then there should be separate divisions for Privates and Publics.

 

[Just.here]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

And here’s a little secret for ya

most private school kids come from private grade schools ?

 

[Jaws31]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

Well least being classy about it. My kids came from a public school that I also coached at. The Coach/AD recruited like crazy when I was there and when they recently made a run had kids from 7 or so districts on it. Screw your hypocrisy.

Go look at the GPA and the college placement percentages of all those state champions. I will absolutely guarantee you that they are much higher that the public school averages. That means this, driven kids and families seek out the best possible place to get an education. There is
A reason that high academic colleges actiively seek the graduates of the privates. Kids with drive=kids that will win.

If you don't like that some have an advantage in sports then you don't understand sports and shouldn't be participating or watching.

 

[BGSUGrad]

Well least being classy about it. My kids came from a public school that I also coached at. The Coach/AD recruited like crazy when I was there and when they recently made a run had kids from 7 or so districts on it. Screw your hypocrisy.
Go look at the GPA and the college placement percentages of all those state champions. I will absolutely guarantee you that they are much higher that the public school averages. That means this, driven kids and families seek out the best possible place to get an education. There is
A reason that high academic colleges actiively seek the graduates of the privates. Kids with drive=kids that will win.

If you don't like that some have an advantage in sports then you don't understand sports and shouldn't be participating or watching.

Well it might not have been phrased well, it doesn’t make untrue. The statistics show that private schools win a disproportionate amount of state titles. So the question is, how do you place schools in a division that accurately reflects the resources they have.
A. Separate tournaments so you only play against schools that are most similar to you
B. Some type of additional factor on enrollment to reflect where the students of a school are coming from - similar to CB but perhaps with a tweak
C. Make every school in the state open enrollment and stop trying to monitor recruiting. Make it a free for all and let the chips fall where they may

 

[murphy13]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

Now run the percentages on open enrollment vs closed enrollment. If memory serves you will find closed enrollment schools out perform open enrollment school districts in sports.

 

[winbypin]

The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.

That looks pretty damning. Of course about 35% of the public schools have zero chance of winning a state championship in some of or all sports before the season even starts.

The reality is it's the same schools, public or private, that are always at the top each year.

 

[queencitybuckeye]

Why is there always an a implicit assumption that there should be a level playing field? If HS sports are to teach lessons for the participants, "life ain't fair" is a pretty good one. Shut up, do your best, play the damn game.

 

[Joe Schmo]

That looks pretty damning. Of course about 35% of the public schools have zero chance of winning a state championship in some of or all sports before the season even starts.

The reality is it's the same schools, public or private, that are always at the top each year.

Winbypin makes a great point but I will expand a bit, I think a total of 35% of schools public or non-public have zero chance right away. There are a lot of teams that just don't have the talent.

Sometimes kids/families choose a school because somebody played there (see SVSM) or because family members went there.

Then of course there are the teams that get hot at the right moment. Bishop Watterson was 3-14 going into the tournament or something like that, then they made a cinderella run to the regional final. sometimes a team just gets hot at the right moment.

 

[BGSUGrad]

Why is there always an a implicit assumption that there should be a level playing field? If HS sports are to teach lessons for the participants, "life ain't fair" is a pretty good one. Shut up, do your best, play the damn game.

That’s just crazy. Of course there needs to be a level playing field to start. I feel 100% sure no one on this site is a fan of participation trophies, but to say that the state should not endeavor to create divisions where schools with equal resources play each is simply asinine. This is not to mean every school “can” win a state title. There are clearly different levels of talent, coaching and conditioning around the state. That is where people can improve, but it is the job of the state to place schools in appropriate divisions.

 

[queencitybuckeye]

That’s just crazy. Of course there needs to be a level playing field to start. I feel 100% sure no one on this site is a fan of participation trophies, but to say that the state should not endeavor to create divisions where schools with equal resources play each is simply asinine. This is not to mean every school “can” win a state title. There are clearly different levels of talent, coaching and conditioning around the state. That is where people can improve, but it is the job of the state to place schools in appropriate divisions.

Nothing crazy about it. While I never said anything like "they" shouldn't try, there can't be a level playing field because it's almost entirely a matter of perception.

As far as who can or can't win a state title, that should be so low on the list of priorities as to be largely an afterthought.

 

[Jaws31]

Nothing crazy about it. There can't be a level playing field because it's almost entirely a matter of perception. The idea of "equal resources" is flat stupidity. Do better.

If they tried to have divisions on "level playing fields" there would be 438 divisions. Of course some people would be ok with that. Trophies for everyone!!

 

[Jake22]

Bottom line is the good schools are just different whether they are public or private. The people that cry for level playing fields are from schools that don’t do the extra. The Monday the season ends kids at our school are voluntary in the gym. Not all, but most. Kids go out on their own and throw and run routes, work on coverage, work on foot work. They do this because the kids that came before them did it or their brother did it. They do this on top of being in another sport. If kids at other schools don’t do this, that’s cool. They dont have to. But until they do, don’t come on here crying how everything is unequal. We know it’s unequal. Not due to public or private, but because some kids want to be good 365 days a year, not just during football season.

 

[Blue Jay Fan]

it's not about resources or who gets in the gym or weight room. There were teams who went down to the basketball state tournament this weekend who worked as hard as all the other teams but had no chance to win because their top 8 players were the top 8 players in their school and the other team's top 8 players were the top players from 8 other schools.

 

[Stirred not Shaken]

Bottom line is the good schools are just different whether they are public or private. The people that cry for level playing fields are from schools that don’t do the extra. The Monday the season ends kids at our school are voluntary in the gym. Not all, but most. Kids go out on their own and throw and run routes, work on coverage, work on foot work. They do this because the kids that came before them did it or their brother did it. They do this on top of being in another sport. If kids at other schools don’t do this, that’s cool. They dont have to. But until they do, don’t come on here crying how everything is unequal. We know it’s unequal. Not due to public or private, but because some kids want to be good 365 days a year, not just during football season.

LOL by that metric than division's shouldn't matter, who ever work's the hardest will win.

 

[serpico]

it's not about resources or who gets in the gym or weight room. There were teams who went down to the basketball state tournament this weekend who worked as hard as all the other teams but had no chance to win because their top 8 players were the top 8 players in their school and the other team's top 8 players were the top players from 8 other schools.

The only part of this I’ll argue is the ‘no chance to win’ part. When you root for one of those schools that has its top 8 come from the town they are in (and thus ‘have no chance’), it’s that much sweeter when you beat the load-up team. It happens, and it will continue to happen.

 

[winbypin]

That’s just crazy. Of course there needs to be a level playing field to start. I feel 100% sure no one on this site is a fan of participation trophies, but to say that the state should not endeavor to create divisions where schools with equal resources play each is simply asinine. This is not to mean every school “can” win a state title. There are clearly different levels of talent, coaching and conditioning around the state. That is where people can improve, but it is the job of the state to place schools in appropriate divisions.

They are already in appropriate divisions.

 

[winbypin]

it's not about resources or who gets in the gym or weight room. There were teams who went down to the basketball state tournament this weekend who worked as hard as all the other teams but had no chance to win because their top 8 players were the top 8 players in their school and the other team's top 8 players were the top players from 8 other schools.

Botkins says howdy. Centerville too.

 

[AuroraGmen]

According to the Ohio dept of education 540 of the 651 public schools in the state are open enrollment. If you want to be more competitive, at anything, make your school more attractive to families so they bring their kids.

Or you can use the Aurora model (closed enrollment district), build a great youth program, establish continuity between the middle school teams through Varsity, emphasize the off season conditioning program and maintain a high quality long time coaching staff. Result has been 15 playoff appearances in a 16 year period, 5 Final Fours, a State Championship and several playoff wins over open enrollment and private schools at both the Division 2 and 3 levels. Beating the odds is that much sweeter.

 

[Jake22]

LOL by that metric than division's shouldn't matter, who ever work's the hardest will win.

Don’t be simple. Division’s do matter. The culture decides the have and have nots.

 

[BGSUGrad]

I understand that as parents/alumni of private schools you know how hard the kids work and you are supportive of them, which is great. But the statistics show that these types of schools win a disproportion amount of state titles so either A - Catholics are just better at sports, B- the system currently used is placing them in a division that is below their competition level. Do the small local schools still some W's sure - looking at you Botkins and MAC schools. But, by and large, schools drawing from large population areas that are being placed in lower divisions are creating an unfair playing field that diminishes the experiences and idea of HS sports

 

[Jaws31]

I understand that as parents/alumni of private schools you know how hard the kids work and you are supportive of them, which is great. But the statistics show that these types of schools win a disproportion amount of state titles so either A - Catholics are just better at sports, B- the system currently used is placing them in a division that is below their competition level. Do the small local schools still some W's sure - looking at you Botkins and MAC schools. But, by and large, schools drawing from large population areas that are being placed in lower divisions are creating an unfair playing field that diminishes the experiences and idea of HS sports

Look at the total championships won by MAC schools in all sports. They have won more titles than any other group of small schools, but there is no outcry for them to all be moved to higher divisions. Why is that? It is because it is assumed and widely accepted that they "do it the right way". No one is stomping their foot, demanding they get moved up. Nor should they be.Their dominance is never questioned but if a private has success then they win by bringing kids and they need to be moved to a higher division. There will always be "unfair" playing fields. Competitve balance does it best at trying to even things out. There will always be teams/schools that are just perennially better than others. No one seems to complain about the privates that aren't very good, even though they still have CB #s. This whole argument against privates is an excuse for those that wouldn't win regardless.