Public vs. Private

Harrycrane said:
Hartley for instance used to be D-5 not too long ago and is now entrenched in D-3 after spending time in D-4 .
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Hartley went 0 and 3 against the 2nd best team in the MAC in 2013/2014. Hartley did win some state titles after being moved up from D5 to larger divisions. Guess you could say competetive balance helped Hartley.
 
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Spread All Day said:
I don’t see any tuba players transferring their sophomore year to a private school. I have seen commercials for usually struggling school districts... and always commercials for the privates.
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Kids transfer their sophomore year because they are disenfranchised with their local school. That is on the school. Privates have commercials because they have to. Publics dont because their student population is provided for them and that is why many struggle in a lot of aspects. Complacency.
 
Privates obviously have advantages. Multiple communities to pull from. Parents & kids who are paying/wanting to be at a great school. Schools have tradition. One thing that has helped Hartley become the best CCL program and other schools located in the Urban areas (TCC & La Salle) is the school vouchers. Allowing students from failing districts to get into private schools for free or very cheap. But these schools have great coaches too. Burchfield won before Hartley and would win at any public school.

Open enrollment for schools give huge advantages over non open enrollments schools as well. In Dayton, Wayne, Springfield, Trotwood, Northmont can get any kid from Dayton to open enroll into their school going into 9th grade. The only schools in the OCC who have open enrollment are Reynoldsburg, Groveport, & Delaware Hayes? To go to Coffman or Pick Central you have to move to the district... which is much different then just deciding you want to enroll in Stuebenville rather than going to Indian Creek and not having to move.
 
For those who have been on Yappi for awhile. RIP Wolf


wolf.jpg
 
Public vs. private debates are dumb. There’s reason why certain schools compete and some don’t.
 
Hartley1 said:
Privates obviously have advantages. Multiple communities to pull from. Parents & kids who are paying/wanting to be at a great school. Schools have tradition. One thing that has helped Hartley become the best CCL program and other schools located in the Urban areas (TCC & La Salle) is the school vouchers. Allowing students from failing districts to get into private schools for free or very cheap. But these schools have great coaches too. Burchfield won before Hartley and would win at any public school.

Open enrollment for schools give huge advantages over non open enrollments schools as well. In Dayton, Wayne, Springfield, Trotwood, Northmont can get any kid from Dayton to open enroll into their school going into 9th grade. The only schools in the OCC who have open enrollment are Reynoldsburg, Groveport, & Delaware Hayes? To go to Coffman or Pick Central you have to move to the district... which is much different then just deciding you want to enroll in Stuebenville rather than going to Indian Creek and not having to move.
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Hartley the best CCL Program really ? didn't they lose 3 to Desales just this past year. And fact is every single time Hartley Won a Football State Championship regardless of Division they lost to DeSales in the regular season head to head.
So lets not embellish . Burchfield provides enough locker room comments to keep Karl Rd motivated .
 
Hartley1 said:
Privates obviously have advantages. Multiple communities to pull from. Parents & kids who are paying/wanting to be at a great school. Schools have tradition. One thing that has helped Hartley become the best CCL program and other schools located in the Urban areas (TCC & La Salle) is the school vouchers. Allowing students from failing districts to get into private schools for free or very cheap. But these schools have great coaches too. Burchfield won before Hartley and would win at any public school.

Open enrollment for schools give huge advantages over non open enrollments schools as well. In Dayton, Wayne, Springfield, Trotwood, Northmont can get any kid from Dayton to open enroll into their school going into 9th grade. The only schools in the OCC who have open enrollment are Reynoldsburg, Groveport, & Delaware Hayes? To go to Coffman or Pick Central you have to move to the district... which is much different then just deciding you want to enroll in Stuebenville rather than going to Indian Creek and not having to move.
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Wayne and northmont are closed districts.
 
TCSoup said:
Hartley the best CCL Program really ? didn't they lose 3 to Desales just this past year. And fact is every single time Hartley Won a Football State Championship regardless of Division they lost to DeSales in the regular season head to head.
So lets not embellish . Burchfield provides enough locker room comments to keep Karl Rd motivated .
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DeSales finds a way to lose to teams with less talent... regularly. Burchfield still has a winning record against DeSales after losing 3 times this year.
Can't wait to see what happens this year...
 
Hartley1 said:
DeSales finds a way to lose to teams with less talent... regularly. Burchfield still has a winning record against DeSales after losing 3 times this year.
Can't wait to see what happens this year...
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No better time to jump in than the present....

Fact Check:

Burch is 4-5 against DeSales
 
Since 2010...
Hartley: 3 State Championships 2010, 2015, 2016 (Burchfield)
DeSales: 4 times not making the playoffs 2012, 2013, 2017, 2018 (Wiggins) - with 5-10 Division one players on every roster.
Not sure anyone does less with the talent they have in Ohio than DeSales.
 
Hartley1 said:
Since 2010...
Hartley: 3 State Championships 2010, 2015, 2016 (Burchfield)
DeSales: 4 times not making the playoffs 2012, 2013, 2017, 2018 (Wiggins) - with 5-10 Division one players on every roster.
Not sure anyone does less with the talent they have in Ohio than DeSales.
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Name those 5-10 D1 Players by years on the roster since 2010 . Fake news

Granted Wiggins has left some winnable games on the table but i would argue in the Playoffs he has maybe 1-2 what i would consider bad losses .
His 1st year at DeSales 20-25 to Louisville who was no slouch but DeSales had the better talent IMO Maybe Elida in 2011 but they were a 7-4 Team with not a lot of size and were the higher seed but had to travel to Lima to face a lower seed and got hosed by the Zebra's all game especially in the 4th Qt. and 2015 to Zanesville didn't see the game so no real comment.
Other than that they lost to some real Powerhouse Teams 2016 Akron Hoban which was considered the best team in the State regardless of Division and DeSales had them down at Half.
Athens 2014 to future Heisman Trophy winner and #1 NFL Draft pick Joe Burrow's , 2009 Cardinal Mooney see Hoban 2016 they were one of the Top Teams in the State regardless of Division. Watterson in 2010 who was that Years State Champ a 5-5 DeSales team took them to the last few plays of the game.
A few of those losses when they bumped to D2 a Division the Hawks have never seen . And why don't you enlighten us on the Hawks playoff success since they moved up into a Top 3 Division?
 
TCSoup said:
Name those 5-10 D1 Players by years on the roster since 2010 . Fake news

Granted Wiggins has left some winnable games on the table but i would argue in the Playoffs he has maybe 1-2 what i would consider bad losses .
His 1st year at DeSales 20-25 to Louisville who was no slouch but DeSales had the better talent IMO Maybe Elida in 2011 but they were a 7-4 Team with not a lot of size and were the higher seed but had to travel to Lima to face a lower seed and got hosed by the Zebra's all game especially in the 4th Qt. and 2015 to Zanesville didn't see the game so no real comment.
Other than that they lost to some real Powerhouse Teams 2016 Akron Hoban which was considered the best team in the State regardless of Division and DeSales had them down at Half.
Athens 2014 to future Heisman Trophy winner and #1 NFL Draft pick Joe Burrow's , 2009 Cardinal Mooney see Hoban 2016 they were one of the Top Teams in the State regardless of Division. Watterson in 2010 who was that Years State Champ a 5-5 DeSales team took them to the last few plays of the game.
A few of those losses when they bumped to D2 a Division the Hawks have never seen . And why don't you enlighten us on the Hawks playoff success since they moved up into a Top 3 Division?
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It’s entertaining to see hartley and desales bicker all the time. Both of these programs are superpowers.

Doing some fact checking:

since they began playing again in 2014 desales leads the series 5-4. Hartley won in 2014, 17, 18, 19. Desales won in 15,16 and all three times in 2020

Hartley was regional runner up in 2017 and 2020 and regional champion in 2019 after being bumped up to d3. Hartley and desales were in the same division and region in 2017,18 and 2020. In 2017 and 18 hartley beat desales and knocked them out of the playoffs altogether.

In 2017 desales had players going to Oklahoma, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Colorado and Cincinnati. And didn’t make the playoffs and was beaten by hartley. 2018 they had many of the same players and same result.

I’ve been a desales guy but hartley has had the better program over the past decade.
 
AHM said:
It’s entertaining to see hartley and desales bicker all the time. Both of these programs are superpowers.

Doing some fact checking:

since they began playing again in 2014 desales leads the series 5-4. Hartley won in 2014, 17, 18, 19. Desales won in 15,16 and all three times in 2020

Hartley was regional runner up in 2017 and 2020 and regional champion in 2019 after being bumped up to d3. Hartley and desales were in the same division and region in 2017,18 and 2020. In 2017 and 18 hartley beat desales and knocked them out of the playoffs altogether.

In 2017 desales had players going to Oklahoma, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Colorado and Cincinnati. And didn’t make the playoffs and was beaten by hartley. 2018 they had many of the same players and same result.

I’ve been a desales guy but hartley has had the better program over the past decade.
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That 2017 Team had players but not a Team. I will agree that Team was undisciplined and got away from the Coaching Staff. A few individuals who won't be named here playing for themselves maybe not the name on their Jersey. It happens sometimes in all levels of sports.
And that was the only team that really had more than a few big D1 players on it.

The Hartley loss alone didn't knock DeSales out of the Playoffs those years although no Loss ever helps Scheduling 3 Teams and losing to them who went to State Championships in 3 different States in 2017 was a bigger factor than just that one game. And 2018 Team had 5 losses the 1 point loss to Cardinal Mooney 18-19 in week 3 because of missed extra points was a wound that eventually bled them out by the end of the year. They lost 2 games after the Hartley loss that also either one would have put them in the playoffs. 14-28 to Winton Woods and 14-21 to Watterson.
 
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TCSoup said:
That 2017 Team had players but not a Team. I will agree that Team was undisciplined and got away from the Coaching Staff. A few individuals who won't be named here playing for themselves maybe not the name on their Jersey. It happens sometimes in all levels of sports.
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Doesn’t matter. Hartley vs desales is a stupid argument. Both are superpowers in the state
 
AHM said:
Doesn’t matter. Hartley vs desales is a stupid argument. Both are superpowers in the state
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AHM is correct, both are superpowers. Although I will say they ended the 2018 season with Rodas Johnson who would have made a big difference. Joey V was carrying the load. Tough when a team doesn't have their QB or top two-way lineman.

As for this upcoming year, it should be interesting. Thompson is a monster and will be a huge benefit to the Stallions. A load on both sides of the ball, similar to Quinn.

I am not sure what Hartley has though, if somebody could fill me in with some decent info.
 
Joe Schmo said:
AHM is correct, both are superpowers. Although I will say they ended the 2018 season with Rodas Johnson who would have made a big difference. Joey V was carrying the load. Tough when a team doesn't have their QB or top two-way lineman.

As for this upcoming year, it should be interesting. Thompson is a monster and will be a huge benefit to the Stallions. A load on both sides of the ball, similar to Quinn.

I am not sure what Hartley has though, if somebody could fill me in with some decent info.
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That Shulaw kid is an absolute beast, especially as a freshman.
 
Hartley should be back down to D4 very soon. Which means a few more State Championship trophies may be added to the case.

With 12 teams getting in the playoffs that should help the superpower Desales get in. Since that is just over 50% of the time since 2010.

TCsoup you made my point. A few BAD losses in the playoffs (which they missed 4 times in 10 yrs). Zanesville had zero kids go D1. All I am saying is DeSales does less with more. State Championship game this year? Up 14 in the 4th ?????? Throwing Picks??? How many State Titles would Burchfield have if he was at DeSales rather than wiggins?
 
To bring some balance to the SFD/BH topic: I know a handful of DeSales alums that graduated in the early 80’s who stressed the value of hard work and preparation that comes to being great at sports into their kids at an early age. Same with Hartley. Part of the success at both schools comes from multigenerational cultures of pride, determination and excellence.
 
Hartley1 said:
Hartley should be back down to D4 very soon. Which means a few more State Championship trophies may be added to the case.

With 12 teams getting in the playoffs that should help the superpower Desales get in. Since that is just over 50% of the time since 2010.

TCsoup you made my point. A few BAD losses in the playoffs (which they missed 4 times in 10 yrs). Zanesville had zero kids go D1. All I am saying is DeSales does less with more. State Championship game this year? Up 14 in the 4th ?????? Throwing Picks??? How many State Titles would Burchfield have if he was at DeSales rather than wiggins?
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I mean, a bad playoff loss every four years or so... not the worst thing ever. 2007, 2011, and 2015.

2017 Hartley lost to Tri-Valley and 2018 to Eastmoor, not exactly powerhouse programs.

As for the Burchfield vs Wiggins comment... Both guys need to be respected.

"Up 14... in the 4th..." DeSales was up 31 in the 4th of the regional final. what happened there?
 
Joe Schmo said:
I mean, a bad playoff loss every four years or so... not the worst thing ever. 2007, 2011, and 2015.

2017 Hartley lost to Tri-Valley and 2018 to Eastmoor, not exactly powerhouse programs.

As for the Burchfield vs Wiggins comment... Both guys need to be respected.

"Up 14... in the 4th..." DeSales was up 31 in the 4th of the regional final. what happened there?
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I hate when desales talks stupid and embarrassed the tradition

Desales was great in 2020. Better than hartley. But hartley has been much better than desales for the better part of the decade and any argument otherwise only shows unreasonable desales bias

Hard to find a bad hartley loss. Tri valley? They lost in the state final that year. Eastmoor? They lost in the state semis that year. Looking at Eitels site can’t find a bad loss by Hartley in the regular season in the past decade.

A bad playoff loss every few years is not the worst thing ever. But look at the body of work in recent history. Desales has had multiple years of .500, losing seasons,bad losses to Broad Street watterson buchtel etc. the Mooney team in 2018 was 4-6. Multiple running clock losses. All in the last 10 years with plenty of talent on Karl Road. 2020 was a great year and hope it can keep going. But nothing consistent should be expected based on recent history.

as stated I will always support desales. But being objective what hartley has done the past ten years is incredible. Also being objective it’s amazing what has happened to desales the past ten years.
 
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