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Prep Nation's Jamie D Current Views re: National Poll

NYCBlue

NYCBlue

Well-known member
Per PrepNation.com....

Despite surviving arguably the nation's toughest schedule unscathed and winning its second Division I state title in three seasons, preseason No. 1 St. Xavier (Cincinnati) remained ranked just behind top-ranked Miami Northwestern again this week. If there were a weekly points tabulation for poll standings, this week's margin between Northwestern and St. Xavier would be razor thin.

But St. Xavier and its fans are not alone in making a legitimate claim for the top spot, should Northwestern lose or play badly enough to drop from No. 1.

No. 3 De La Salle (Concord, Calif.) is dominating opponents in a fashion reminiscent of the Spartans teams that won six Prep Poll titles between 1994-2003. And unlike those years, should it win this week, De La Salle will play in a legitimate state championship game this season against the top large-school team from Southern California.

Then there's No. 4 Katy (Texas). The Tigers, who have unmatched tradition in the Lone Star State, have reached the 5A state quarterfinals for the 10th time in 11 seasons and appear likely to claim their fourth state title since 1997.

No. 5 South Panola (Batesville, Miss.) certainly has a strong case of its own for the No. 1 spot again this season. The Tigers are closing in on a fifth consecutive 5A state championship and 75 straight wins.

With all that on the record, Miami Northwestern has done enough to keep the No. 1 ranking, in our view. The Bulls grade out highest when applying the four major criteria to which the National Prep Poll gives most weight when ranking teams:

schedule strength
accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships
fielding a team with impact/memorable players
coaching/recent tradition.

Some other teams appear to grade out better in any one individual category than the Bulls. But, overall, Northwestern appears to us to be the best team in America.

At least for now.



http://prepnation.com/poll/poll.cfm?poll=1&year=2007&week=17



Thoughts...
Comments...

Your views re: Prep Nation's 4 major criteria....

 
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D5 Maria Stein Marion Local getting some love in the Midwest Rankings. I wonder if an Ohio school of their size has ever garnised a national ranking?

Calpreps has liked them for the majority of the season, and they seem to be getting love from a lot of the yappi pundits as well over on the other forum.
 
With all that on the record, Miami Northwestern has done enough to keep the No. 1 ranking, in our view. The Bulls grade out highest when applying the four major criteria to which the National Prep Poll gives most weight when ranking teams:
schedule strength
accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships
fielding a team with impact/memorable players
coaching/recent tradition.
Click to expand...

Schedule Strength - X.... by a buttload.

accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships - Wash at best

fielding a team with impact/memorable players - MNW

coaching/recent tradition - Wash at best, although IMO X gets the nod.
 
My response to Jamie....


Schedule Strength: X has to be ahead of all other potential national contenders by a longshot. MNW has played a couple of decent Florida teams, but their marquis win over SLC was just tarnished. X has faced and beaten two teams that hit the PN national top ten. One is now the East #7 and I believe vying for a title. They have also beaten the current and former MW #5s (Coffman and Mentor), the current MW #3 (Trinity) and spanked Elder, who beat the East #6 Indy. In comparison, MNW beat the SW #7. X by a landslide.

Dominant team/Championships: MNW has generally been dominant, but then again their average opponent isn't even a 6-4 team. Only 2 of 15 of St. X opponents were at or below that level, as X's are the equivalant of an 8-2 team on average. And X has done it despite key injuries. Not including losses to X, 11 of X's 15 games were versus teams that had 2 or fewer losses. Oh, and X actually HAS won their title. Please refer to strength of schedule above for more. Push at worst. And shouldn't X get some credit for "walking the walk"?

Impact/Memorable Players: MNW has some big names getting scholies. But is X a slouch? X has Ashley, the All-Ohio Offensive and Defensive Players of the Year, the #8 ranked punter/kicker in the country by Prokicker, four All-Ohio 1st teamers, a second teamer and an honorable mention, the Army Iron Man... MNW gets a nod....maybe. But by much? Looking good and getting stats against teams that win less than 60% of their games may distort things?

Coaching/Recent Tradition: Under Coach Specht, X is 51-3 with two Ohio D1 titles won with perfect 15-0 records. He has won coach of the year honors in Ohio twice in just four years. And if you can find me a team in the nation has faced a line-up of competition like X has faced to achieve a 51-3 record, I'd like to hear about them. I understand MNW's coach has a very good resume, but does his record match up to what Specht has done in arguaby the toughest classification in the nation and facing multiple out-of-state powers? Not just one in an off year? I'd love to hear the reasoning for X not getting this also.
 
I don't know why the last two matter.

I get schedule strength and dominance/championships.

That's basically how good your opponents were and how easily you handled them.

Impact/memorable players only matter in how they affect your ability to dominate your opponents, and to win championships. If you're winning, your players are probably pretty good, and if you're not winning, they're probably not very good. But it doesn't matter if you have 11 All-Americans playing both ways if they somehow manage to lose.

And coaching works the same way. If it helps you win, great. If it doesn't, not so great. But you shouldn't get credit beyond what you've done on the field, or short of what you've done on the field, because of a separate category for coaching.

And tradition is (mostly) a result of dominating opponents and winning championships. If you don't dominate, but you used to dominate, you shouldn't get credit for that this year.

Xavier has played perhaps the toughest possible schedule. You could put together, theoretically, a tougher schedule heading into the year, but it would be very hard to have it play out as tough as Xavier's did. You could schedule 10 teams that should win every game other than when they play against you, but good luck having it work out that way.

MNW has been more dominant. They've won by bigger margins.

Taking schedule and dominance together, I think Xavier is a better choice for number 1 than MNW is. It is much more likely that if Xavier played MNW's schedule, they would be 13-0, than it is that if MNW had played Xavier's schedule they would be 15-0.

And yes, Xavier has already won a championship. MNW still has two games to go.
 
concha said:
My response to Jamie....


Schedule Strength: X has to be ahead of all other potential national contenders by a longshot. MNW has played a couple of decent Florida teams, but their marquis win over SLC was just tarnished. X has faced and beaten two teams that hit the PN national top ten. One is now the East #7 and I believe vying for a title. They have also beaten the current and former MW #5s (Coffman and Mentor), the current MW #3 (Trinity) and spanked Elder, who beat the East #6 Indy. In comparison, MNW beat the SW #7. X by a landslide.

Dominant team/Championships: MNW has generally been dominant, but then again their average opponent isn't even a 6-4 team. Only 2 of 15 of St. X opponents were at or below that level, as X's are the equivalant of an 8-2 team on average. And X has done it despite key injuries. Not including losses to X, 11 of X's 15 games were versus teams that had 2 or fewer losses. Oh, and X actually HAS won their title. Please refer to strength of schedule above for more. Push at worst. And shouldn't X get some credit for "walking the walk"?

Impact/Memorable Players: MNW has some big names getting scholies. But is X a slouch? X has Ashley, the All-Ohio Offensive and Defensive Players of the Year, the #8 ranked punter/kicker in the country by Prokicker, four All-Ohio 1st teamers, a second teamer and an honorable mention, the Army Iron Man... MNW gets a nod....maybe. But by much? Looking good and getting stats against teams that win less than 60% of their games may distort things?

Coaching/Recent Tradition: Under Coach Specht, X is 51-3 with two Ohio D1 titles won with perfect 15-0 records. He has won coach of the year honors in Ohio twice in just four years. And if you can find me a team in the nation has faced a line-up of competition like X has faced to achieve a 51-3 record, I'd like to hear about them. I understand MNW's coach has a very good resume, but does his record match up to what Specht has done in arguaby the toughest classification in the nation and facing multiple out-of-state powers? Not just one in an off year? I'd love to hear the reasoning for X not getting this also.
Click to expand...

concha you used sos to argue 4 of the 4 points
the reason the categories are divided into 4 is to argue sos in sos only

do a better job netx time
 
consumerman said:
concha you used sos to argue 4 of the 4 points
the reason the categories are divided into 4 is to argue sos in sos only

do a better job netx time
Click to expand...


I see.

So dominance need not be put in context. Domination over an easy schedule is the same as domination over a difficult one. Genius.

Player performance the same. Lots of yards and scores versus weaker opponents should be judged the same as ones earned versus tough competition. Okey-dokey.

Coaching results and tradition shouldn't be judged against the quality of opponents played. You betcha.



So a team could go 15-0 versus the toughest schedule ever seen, yet potentially lose 3 of 4 categories to a 15-0 team that plays in Bunnyville because you're supposed to forget the quality of opposition in 3 of 4 categories?
 
concha said:
I see.

So dominance need not be put in context. Domination over an easy schedule is the same as domination over a difficult one. Genius.

Player performance the same. Lots of yards and scores versus weaker opponents should be judged the same as ones earned versus tough competition. Okey-dokey.

Coaching results and tradition shouldn't be judged against the quality of opponents played. You betcha.



So a team could go 15-0 versus the toughest schedule ever seen, yet potentially lose 3 of 4 categories to a 15-0 team that plays in Bunnyville because you're supposed to forget the quality of opposition in 3 of 4 categories?
Click to expand...


use sos in sos only

try better for a third time
 
X and SOS

NYCBlue said:
Per PrepNation.com....

Despite surviving arguably the nation's toughest schedule unscathed and winning its second Division I state title in three seasons, preseason No. 1 St. Xavier (Cincinnati) remained ranked just behind top-ranked Miami Northwestern again this week. If there were a weekly points tabulation for poll standings, this week's margin between Northwestern and St. Xavier would be razor thin.

But St. Xavier and its fans are not alone in making a legitimate claim for the top spot, should Northwestern lose or play badly enough to drop from No. 1.

No. 3 De La Salle (Concord, Calif.) is dominating opponents in a fashion reminiscent of the Spartans teams that won six Prep Poll titles between 1994-2003. And unlike those years, should it win this week, De La Salle will play in a legitimate state championship game this season against the top large-school team from Southern California.

Then there's No. 4 Katy (Texas). The Tigers, who have unmatched tradition in the Lone Star State, have reached the 5A state quarterfinals for the 10th time in 11 seasons and appear likely to claim their fourth state title since 1997.

No. 5 South Panola (Batesville, Miss.) certainly has a strong case of its own for the No. 1 spot again this season. The Tigers are closing in on a fifth consecutive 5A state championship and 75 straight wins.

With all that on the record, Miami Northwestern has done enough to keep the No. 1 ranking, in our view. The Bulls grade out highest when applying the four major criteria to which the National Prep Poll gives most weight when ranking teams:

schedule strength
accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships
fielding a team with impact/memorable players
coaching/recent tradition.

Some other teams appear to grade out better in any one individual category than the Bulls. But, overall, Northwestern appears to us to be the best team in America.

At least for now.



http://prepnation.com/poll/poll.cfm?poll=1&year=2007&week=17



Thoughts...
Comments...

Your views re: Prep Nation's 4 major criteria....

Click to expand...
Well, I think Panola is the imposter on that list. Just as NC Indy was exposed this yr, and how other states like SoCar and La. have been exposed in prev yrs. IMHO, DLS absolutely belongs in the top three. MNW is hard to handicap cause they only had ONE real game, and that is loosing its luster. (SLC)
X played a brutal sched, and came away with only a couple bruises, but no broken bones. I really dont think indiv player quality should influence the ranking because: Last yr, Lakeland had the best personel in the USA, and they came within a whisker of loosing to an average X team; on paper, L shoulda won that game by 45! And in '01, DLS played Poly who was (some claim) the greatest assembly of talent in the HS history! DLS still won. And again the next yr as well. And, this will likely be about the 4th consecutive yr that DLS will have zero D-1 recruits. Doesnt matter as evidenced by above examples. Qual of individuals shouldnt be a criteria caus this IS a team sport.

Fact is, X had, by far, the most brutal sched in the USA, and they prevailed. They had some major potholes to navigate around (injuries to Ashley and starting QB), and they accomplished their mission on the field.
Recent history has nothing to do with THIS YEAR.
Being a dominant team, and winning the championship, X has, and MNW likely will.
END OF STORY.
X has to get the the plaque this yr! Its only fair. (And Im a DLS guy.)
 
concha said:
Traveled to Washington lately?
Click to expand...

won 8 national championships lately?

had 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks lately?

had all americans 4 consecutive years?

have a coach inducted into the hs hall of fame at age 40?

beaten a team that finished in the top 2 ever?

beaten a team that finished in the top 3 ever?

allowed 21 points in the first halves of 11 games? (not 24 in one half)

sorry you opened up a can of worms that you will never overcome
 
consumerman said:
won 8 national championships lately?

had 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks lately?

had all americans 4 consecutive years?

have a coach inducted into the hs hall of fame at age 40?

beaten a team that finished in the top 2 ever?

beaten a team that finished in the top 3 ever?

sorry you opened up a can of worms that you will never overcome
Click to expand...


And in that time you played a team from Hawaii, a team from Washington (spank), a Louisiana team in a down year and an Ohio team that DNQ for the tourney.

How many games in those streaks were outside California? Outside of NorCal?
 
concha said:
And in that time you played a team from Hawaii, a team from Washington (spank), a Louisiana team in a down year and an Ohio team that DNQ for the tourney.

How many games in those streaks were outside California? Outside of NorCal?
Click to expand...

Mater Dei 1994 and 1996 national champs (#5 in 1997)

1998 MD won SS, finished national #2
1999 MD tied for SS, Matt Leinart junior year
2000 Matt Leinart senior year
2001

MD never led at any time during any of the 4 games

LB Poly national top 3 1997, 2000, 2001

2001 won SS, 5 players in national top 79
2002

DLS never trailed at any point in either game

Honolulu ST Louis

18 time DIV 1 state champion
(better than Indiana Div 3)>>????

LMAO

Evangel

9 time Louisina champion
yes JD Booty graduated early

Matt Leinart was the better college QB, you really think JD Booty could overcome a 27-10 score? Evangel TD was late in 4th Q, DLS took a knee on the 5 yard line

Y A W N
 
concha said:
How old are you? Seriously.
Click to expand...

I have been following hs football since NFL overall #1 pick Steve Bartkowski was a junior in hs (saw him play, he was a friend)

Was graduated from HS when I saw Oak Grove go 14-1 and win CCS championship in 1978 when MIKE HOLMGREN was the offensive coordinator

ever heard of him?
 
consumerman said:
so tell me about X 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks please

and 4 all americans in 4 years

and 8 national championships

ok?
Click to expand...


Consumerdad, stop embarassing the legendary DLS program. A program which you have nothing to even do with. St. X and DLS are similar programs at this point in time and Specht is doing what Coach Lad was building in the 90's and getting kids to buy in and work their butts off to play fundamentally sound, disciplined, and phyiscal football with superior conditioned athletes with high football IQ's. No showboating, no razzle dazzle...play hard, fast, and smart. Something you would know nothin about because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football nor even understand the principles that Coach Lad and DLS stand for.

I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle and more. Also, I dont think X could not compete with DLS in their glory years, maybe 98 and 2001 (probably wouldnt win), but 2005 and 2007 X are on the level of past DLS teams no doubt.
 
Something you would know nothin about because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

oh god another ohio know-it-all who condenscends and reacts like i challenged his manhood

is there a neverending supply of these creeps?

Umm My father was a professional athlete

I was a college athlete

I played one year of football
was third leading rusher on a team that featured a pac 10 3 year starter
we were league champions

I concentrated on baseball since I was captain as a freshman and we were league champs (11-1)
captain of jv as a sophomore (15-3)
and captain of varsity both my JUNIOR and senior years (3rd place in an 11 team league, 2nd place in an 11 team league)

oh by the way, our freshman class was 1800 students and over 200 tried out for the frosh team


i coached a league champion colt team at the age of 19
I was allowed to coach at the junior college at age 19 even though I was also a player 5 players from that team went to the majors, including 2 perennial all-stars

but you are right I know nothing about sports or sportsmanship

if I only I grew up in cincinnati

darn
 
I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle

DLS is trembling at might st x

a team that allowed 24 first half points in one game and trailed by double digits

dls gave up 21 first half points all year

a team that took 3 overtimes to beat a team by 3 that was crushed by another team

oh dls is trembling

and dls is so poorly conditioned they might not make it to halftime

LMAO x 1 million
 
consumerman said:
Something you would know nothin about because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

oh god another ohio know-it-all who condenscends and reacts like i challenged his manhood

is there a neverending supply of these creeps?

Umm My father was a professional athlete

I was a college athlete

I played one year of football
was third leading rusher on a team that featured a pac 10 3 year starter
we were league champions

I concentrated on baseball since I was captain as a freshman and we were league champs (11-1)
captain of jv as a sophomore (15-3)
and captain of varsity both my JUNIOR and senior years (3rd place in an 11 team league, 2nd place in an 11 team league)

oh by the way, our freshman class was 1800 students and over 200 tried out for the frosh team


i coached a league champion colt team at the age of 19
I was allowed to coach at the junior college at age 19 even though I was also a player 5 players from that team went to the majors, including 2 perennial all-stars

but you are right I know nothing about sports or sportsmanship

if I only I grew up in cincinnati

darn
Click to expand...

No I said you dont know anything about DLS because all the people i know from DLS are humble and respectable people who dont need indulge in trolling message boards.

Im not even going to get into my credentials or my families because most real athletes dont need to talk about their past.
 
consumerman said:
I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle

DLS is trembling at might st x

a team that allowed 24 first half points in one game and trailed by double digits

dls gave up 21 first half points all year

a team that took 3 overtimes to beat a team by 3 that was crushed by another team

oh dls is trembling

and dls is so poorly conditioned they might not make it to halftime

LMAO x 1 million
Click to expand...


Again how do you know what DLS is thinking...a classy program like DLS wants nothing to with a jock rider like yourself. Where did I say DLS was poorly conditioned? Also, since you know so much about DLS then surely you know what Coach Lad has said about X? Im not going to get into comparative scoring because its stupid...all i know is both DLS and X are two awesome programs who epitomize class and fundamentally sound football. Thats why DLS is my second favorite HS team and also because my buddy Derek Landri went there. He also thinks highly of St. X.
 
ProfessorX said:
No I said you dont know anything about DLS because all the people i know from DLS are humble and respectable people who dont need indulge in trolling message boards.

Im not even going to get into my credentials or my families because most real athletes dont need to talk about their past.
Click to expand...

1) I am not from DLS
2) I guess you look at internet boards and thats ok but I go to the same site and have a need to troll. HYPOCRITE
3) I am not a real athlete, I am glad you are
4) you questioned if I ever played football and I answered you with facts, that is not a NEED to talk about my past but to answer a knowitall smartass
5) I hope you arent a ND fan as well, good god the only thing worse are Yankees and Cowboys fans, although ST X fans are rapidly moving up the list

anything else?
 
because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

third time I will show you what you said

in case you did not or could not read what you wrote yourself
 
consumerman said:
because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

third time I will show you what you said

in case you did not or could not read what you wrote yourself
Click to expand...

Yeah you never played football for a real team like DLS or St. X. One year of football...LOOK OUT!
 
ProfessorX said:
Yeah you never played football for a real team like DLS or St. X. One year of football...LOOK OUT!
Click to expand...

like I said

I was a much better baseball player and prospect

plus an honors student that was at level 9

level 1 is below grade level
level 2 was at grade level
level 3 was above grade level

oh ya I won wittiest AND biggest flirt my senior year

oh and my brother as a senior (went to school with mark spitz and joanna (devarona) kerns - (mother on growing pains) was his high school ping pong champion, problem was he couldnt beat his little brother (me) who was in grade school
 
consumerman said:
I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle

DLS is trembling at might st x

a team that allowed 24 first half points in one game and trailed by double digits

dls gave up 21 first half points all year

a team that took 3 overtimes to beat a team by 3 that was crushed by another team

oh dls is trembling

and dls is so poorly conditioned they might not make it to halftime

LMAO x 1 million
Click to expand...

What is your deal?

Who is making claims that X would spank DLS? The quote you are reacting to says DLS would give X all it could handle. Who questioning their conditioning, which is acknowledged widely to be exceptional? Horses has to do with X's depth and the way they dominate the 2nd half. Why do you keep humping a game that X managed to win playing 5 hours from home with a sophomore QB in his first start?
 
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