#PACtion™ 2024

iveseenitall said:
Which is also a staple of the younger Dennison's program. He had PMA on the helmets for years. I've heard some Durbs, Kehres, Dennison(Jim), and Hertler(Son) stories as well.
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PMA...hearing it from Jim Dennison was awesome. Jim taught a football class at Akron called the Theory and Technique of Football Coaching....he started with this and worked it in his teaching all the time. Durbs stories are funny but are rather tame......now Donny Jr......those are in their own league....lol
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
PMA...hearing it from Jim Dennison was awesome. Jim taught a football class at Akron called the Theory and Technique of Football Coaching....he started with this and worked it in his teaching all the time. Durbs stories are funny but are rather tame......now Donny Jr......those are in their own league....lol
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For sure. Donny Jr. could write a book or a screen play about some of his escapades and it would be a must read/watch. His travels around Ohio are legendary.
 
iveseenitall said:
For sure. Donny Jr. could write a book or a screen play about some of his escapades and it would be a must read/watch. His travels around Ohio are legendary.
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He lives not to far from me when he is up here....he also lives in Fla during the winter...I used to run into him a lot when out...all I am going to say...lol
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
Remember they play Hoover every year....so why would you play 2 Fed teams in your out of conference...at least Hoover was D 1 at the time. There was no real benefit to play Lake...we were both D 2 then they went to D 3..for a Lake situation it was a huge benefit to playing Louisvile...they would go 8 and 2 and help carry us into the playoffs...yet if Louisville beat us they were not going to get may Harbins from us because we would not be as good and then have to play our Fed Schedule....and if they did play us there was a chance they would see us again in the playoffs....thru this time you had 4 teams to make the playoffs then it went to 8

I just know this....the people at Louisville would probably like a do over on when and why they did not retain John as their head coach
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Yeah I have heard that schtick before as well - why play two fed teams, points blah blah

how bout maybe they should have played Lake because it would have prepped them vs a tough team they wouldn't have been the favorite in and ready the troops for the playoffs. That is a legit starting reason right there. I find it amusing when fans of schools try to justify their schedules.

as it is - the discussion was about ranking the coaches in the PACtionTM
I was merely pointing out that maybe ranking the one coach was a bit hasty as I suggested before

how bout - what are the marquee wins for a coach that we rank. Obviously Dial had to win some games to make the state championship and he may have not been favored in those games. I think some coaching wins are veiled by weak schedules at times. just my opinion
I also find it interesting how eager some schools are to play others that are smaller than themselves yet shy away from games playing up divisions.
 
CrusaderZip0004 said:
Would they accept a transfer? I'm sure. Has Klinefelter or Trucker ever went to a non feeder school to promote CCC? No. What makes you say they've relaxed that stance?
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I remember Coach Lowell Klinefelter coming into St. Barb's to give a little speech about CCC football when I was a kid. It was all good and.....so long ago that it was featured on French cave paintings.
 
bootleg said:
I also find it interesting how eager some schools are to play others that are smaller than themselves yet shy away from games playing up divisions.
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Boot! Something tells me you weren't around this thread when the "CVCA is leaving/getting kicked out" was the topic du jour. That's pretty much ALL we talked about.

The thread & the school are definitely split on this. But 2nd part is pretty obvious based on the team schedules.
 
bootleg said:
Yeah I have heard that schtick before as well - why play two fed teams, points blah blah

how bout maybe they should have played Lake because it would have prepped them vs a tough team they wouldn't have been the favorite in and ready the troops for the playoffs. That is a legit starting reason right there. I find it amusing when fans of schools try to justify their schedules.

as it is - the discussion was about ranking the coaches in the PACtionTM
I was merely pointing out that maybe ranking the one coach was a bit hasty as I suggested before

how bout - what are the marquee wins for a coach that we rank. Obviously Dial had to win some games to make the state championship and he may have not been favored in those games. I think some coaching wins are veiled by weak schedules at times. just my opinion
I also find it interesting how eager some schools are to play others that are smaller than themselves yet shy away from games playing up divisions.
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Oh we wanted to keep playing them but they would schedule us and then they would drop us....just happened again this coming season...now we are looking for a week 6 game.

I think your point about playing up a game or two is better now with the fact that one loss will not penalize you from making the playoffs....it should depend on how your total schedule is set up....but I do think it is crazee to have to play 16 games to win or lose a championship game....that is one long season
 
Stark Sports said:
What is your beef with Burkett from a baseball perspective? I think you and Rich have documented your opinions from an AD perspective, but legitimately curious on the baseball side of things.
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Plays favorites (and I'm saying this before my kid was up there) runs kids off that are the talented ones that play travel ball and should be playing, says he supports multi-sport kids and definitely does not. Antiquated coaching, no teaching or development during practice, practically gives them an evaluation in front of everyone at the year-end banquet, literally said one kid had mental issues (exact wording) at the plate during said banquet. List goes on and on, Kotite probably has more examples given his tenue and me being a transplant but been their long enough to form the same opinion based on facts, that's just a quick down and dirty wording before I hit the road for the day. The one positive I can give and Kotite man shun me for saying this, but I do believe he has a vast baseball knowledge and could be a great teacher if he changed his ways, but fact is he is one of main reasons why Tuslaw sports, specifically boys has been in the sh*tter for several years.
 
Playoffs??? said:
Plays favorites (and I'm saying this before my kid was up there) runs kids off that are the talented ones that play travel ball and should be playing, says he supports multi-sport kids and definitely does not. Antiquated coaching, no teaching or development during practice, practically gives them an evaluation in front of everyone at the year-end banquet, literally said one kid had mental issues (exact wording) at the plate during said banquet. List goes on and on, Kotite probably has more examples given his tenue and me being a transplant but been their long enough to form the same opinion based on facts, that's just a quick down and dirty wording before I hit the road for the day. The one positive I can give and Kotite man shun me for saying this, but I do believe he has a vast baseball knowledge and could be a great teacher if he changed his ways, but fact is he is one of main reasons why Tuslaw sports, specifically boys has been in the sh*tter for several years.
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You're spot on and I'll go ancient history with you guys. groundskeeper willy gets his antiquated ways from his dad who was a principal at Tuslaw for over 30 years and was, honestly, terrible with no people skills. His reign at Newman Elementary was like Pol Pot. Newman was a good school, Tuslaw are good schools, you don't need to be Joe Clark (another ancient reference) there.

Lots of less than admirable people have great baseball knowledge. Baseball needs to be FUN and it CAN be. Think The Baseball Bunch on TV with Johnny Bench way back before both of your time but look it up!

In modern times, Tito Francona had the right approach. Baseball was fun and he let his players be themselves while still maintaining standards.

I used to be a yuge baseball honk but that sport lost me. That's for another day although I've alluded to why.
 
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Rich Kotite said:
You're spot on and I'll go ancient history with you guys. groundskeeper willy gets his antiquated ways from his dad who was a principal at Tuslaw for over 30 years and was, honestly, terrible with no people skills. His reign at Newman Elementary was like Pol Pot.
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I have to ask...is groundskeeper willy the AD...or just a coach?
 
Playoffs??? said:
Plays favorites (and I'm saying this before my kid was up there) runs kids off that are the talented ones that play travel ball and should be playing, says he supports multi-sport kids and definitely does not. Antiquated coaching, no teaching or development during practice, practically gives them an evaluation in front of everyone at the year-end banquet, literally said one kid had mental issues (exact wording) at the plate during said banquet. List goes on and on, Kotite probably has more examples given his tenue and me being a transplant but been their long enough to form the same opinion based on facts, that's just a quick down and dirty wording before I hit the road for the day. The one positive I can give and Kotite man shun me for saying this, but I do believe he has a vast baseball knowledge and could be a great teacher if he changed his ways, but fact is he is one of main reasons why Tuslaw sports, specifically boys has been in the sh*tter for several years.
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Speaking from personal experience I would say I disagree with a lot of this. Never observed him playing favorites. The best players always played regardless of age, travel ball, multi-sport athlete, etc. He was always very supportive of multi-sport athletes from what I observed and experienced.

In addition to that, he also has been relatively successful when Tuslaw has had some talent. After winning 13 games his first year, he averaged 19 wins a season over the next four years. There were a few years where there was a large drop-off in talent which resulted in some poor seasons. They were decent again in 2019 and 2021 and would have had a really good team in 2020 if not for Covid.

Like you said, his baseball knowledge is extremely solid. Are there things he could do better? Probably, but that could be said for most coaches.

Also, would disagree with him being the reason why Tuslaw boys sports have struggled the last handful of years.
 
Stark Sports said:
Speaking from personal experience I would say I disagree with a lot of this. Never observed him playing favorites. The best players always played regardless of age, travel ball, multi-sport athlete, etc. He was always very supportive of multi-sport athletes from what I observed and experienced.

In addition to that, he also has been relatively successful when Tuslaw has had some talent. After winning 13 games his first year, he averaged 19 wins a season over the next four years. There were a few years where there was a large drop-off in talent which resulted in some poor seasons. They were decent again in 2019 and 2021 and would have had a really good team in 2020 if not for Covid.

Like you said, his baseball knowledge is extremely solid. Are there things he could do better? Probably, but that could be said for most coaches.

Also, would disagree with him being the reason why Tuslaw boys sports have struggled the last handful of years.
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Why do you think the sports have struggled?

I'd say the hiring of Gulling #2 was a reason in football. Who was the AD who hired him? I think that's part of the point.

El Lapo may have a Gene Smith OSU situation where even my mom would have known to hire Urban Meyer like Gene did and El Lapo did with Broc Dial.
 
Rich Kotite said:
Why do you think the sports have struggled?

I'd say the hiring of Gulling #2 was a reason in football. Who was the AD who hired him? I think that's part of the point.

El Lapo may have a Gene Smith OSU situation where even my mom would have known to hire Urban Meyer like Gene did and El Lapo did with Broc Dial.
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The primary reason the boys sports have struggled to the extent they have has been a substantial drop in overall athleticism. In addition, there has been a drop in just the overall number of boys in general. There is talent in the current freshman and sophomore classes, but the current junior and senior classes along with the class prior were extremely bare.

Was Gulling #2 a good hire? No, clearly not. But in high school is the AD fully responsible for a bad hire, was there input from the rest of the administration and the board? Given what we know about Tuslaw's administration and board, my guess is they had quite a bit of input and wanted the easy route. Does Burkett get 100% of the credit for all of the really good hires on the girls side of things then?
 
Stark Sports said:
The primary reason the boys sports have struggled to the extent they have has been a substantial drop in overall athleticism. In addition, there has been a drop in just the overall number of boys in general. There is talent in the current freshman and sophomore classes, but the current junior and senior classes along with the class prior were extremely bare.

Was Gulling #2 a good hire? No, clearly not. But in high school is the AD fully responsible for a bad hire, was there input from the rest of the administration and the board? Given what we know about Tuslaw's administration and board, my guess is they had quite a bit of input and wanted the easy route. Does Burkett get 100% of the credit for all of the really good hires on the girls side of things then?
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I think you hit on some things here and perhaps the new blood on the Tuslaw BOE has been helpful.

However, Tuslaw has a winning tradition in those girls sports, too. I have a mixed opinion on Colleen Wageley who, again ancient history, helped build the softball and volleyball program there with a lot of winning and alumni who know that winning. It's likely very ancient history to you and others but relevant.

The Slaw brings the FIRE to PACtion.
 
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Raylan_Givens said:
Boot! Something tells me you weren't around this thread when the "CVCA is leaving/getting kicked out" was the topic du jour. That's pretty much ALL we talked about.

The thread & the school are definitely split on this. But 2nd part is pretty obvious based on the team schedules.
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I was not - but for some reason began reading the 2023 from the beginning and had to comment so I would be notified when there were additions to the thread. Glad to be here and have watched the PAC since its inception.
Excited Gold GIF

I have seen where as an example a d3 school will schedule a d5 and any d4 they can get but wrinkle nose about playing d1 or 2. So overall wins for a coach(back to my point) can be a misleading stat. Whereas I like to look at those wins when no one thought you could win but you did - also referred to as a come up in the parlance of our times.

Bluestreakoffice said:
Oh we wanted to keep playing them but they would schedule us and then they would drop us....just happened again this coming season...now we are looking for a week 6 game.

I think your point about playing up a game or two is better now with the fact that one loss will not penalize you from making the playoffs....it should depend on how your total schedule is set up....but I do think it is crazee to have to play 16 games to win or lose a championship game....that is one long season
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I have heard the farrah explanation of why they didn't play Lake all those years and you explained it like you heard it from the man himself. Have to wonder how do some of these schools measure where they are as a program only wanting to play schools they are bigger than.
Scared Chris Farley GIF
 
Stark Sports said:
Speaking from personal experience I would say I disagree with a lot of this. Never observed him playing favorites. The best players always played regardless of age, travel ball, multi-sport athlete, etc. He was always very supportive of multi-sport athletes from what I observed and experienced.

In addition to that, he also has been relatively successful when Tuslaw has had some talent. After winning 13 games his first year, he averaged 19 wins a season over the next four years. There were a few years where there was a large drop-off in talent which resulted in some poor seasons. They were decent again in 2019 and 2021 and would have had a really good team in 2020 if not for Covid.

Like you said, his baseball knowledge is extremely solid. Are there things he could do better? Probably, but that could be said for most coaches.

Also, would disagree with him being the reason why Tuslaw boys sports have struggled the last handful of years.
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I know personally kids that quit because of his antics and playing favs, and he DOES NOT support mutil-sport kids, especially wrestlers. There are a few probably 6-8 years ago, don’t quote me on that time, had some great pitchers and athletes that were wrestlers and barely saw the field. A returning all PAC player is choosing not to play this year and only play travel ball because it’s literally not fun playing for the guy and this isn’t some punk kid with an attitude problem, soft spoken works his A** keeps his head down. Not my kid, we all know each other well enough by now and enough posts that you know I have skin in the game in several sports with my own minions. if things don’t change I could see more saying the hell with HS ball. Travel ball is a better product anyways and where kids get noticed, especially when you have a coach like this. Not trying to get crappy with ya, all in the name of PACtion and good conversation. I just know what I’ve seen the last 10 years with my own eyes with this guy as the AD and specifically with baseball.

I’ll agree that the talent took a dip in a few years, not much any coach can do about that. We’ll see what happens this year, just like in football, there were some cancers that needed to go as well and that’s also not on him.
 
bootleg said:
I have heard the farrah explanation of why they didn't play Lake all those years and you explained it like you heard it from the man himself. Have to wonder how do some of these schools measure where they are as a program only wanting to play schools they are bigger than.
Scared Chris Farley GIF
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I actually heard him say this...even thou they wouldn't play us we did scrimmage them....he was a difficult person. We play up more then most schools in the area...just because of the league...but you can't play up all ten weeks...it beats you up...you need to play some schools that are your equal to build depth and keep the kids excited...yet you need to play schools better then you to see how good you are...then you get caught in a situation like ours....we still haven't found a game 1 or 6 last I heard...nobody our size will play us
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
I actually heard him say this...even thou they wouldn't play us we did scrimmage them....he was a difficult person. We play up more then most schools in the area...just because of the league...but you can't play up all ten weeks...it beats you up...you need to play some schools that are your equal to build depth and keep the kids excited...yet you need to play schools better then you to see how good you are...then you get caught in a situation like ours....we still haven't found a game 1 or 6 last I heard...nobody our size will play us
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agreed and I know
I also like Dover and Akron East for you guys - but they cancelled with you
 
bootleg said:
agreed and I know
I also like Dover and Akron East for you guys - but they cancelled with you
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Dover will play us then they drop us...you never know with them. Akron East did leave us but they require a $5000 fee to play them...so was kind of a mutual situation....They dropped Jackson and Dover also...and if you include the year before they dropped us, Jackson, Perry, and Dover
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
Britannica Dictionary definition of CHARACTER

the way someone thinks, feels, and behaves : someone's personality — usually singular

My answer to you was what you are asking. In the context of your above statement, you sound like the normal fan who finds fault and yet does not remember the victories in the same light.

You mention Green has our number.....well Lake is 17 and 10 against them....last time Green beat Lake at Lake was 1963 37 to 22....now Lake is 500 at Green....we have become their rival...our kids get motivated to play them at Lake...we have been flat when we go there.

McKinley we are just snake bit...go for 4th and one don't get it they score with 5 sec left, have a punt snap go out the end zone and then miss tackles on the ensuing kick off, we have had some of our best efforts against them and fall short for numerous reasons....just McKinley made the plays and we didn't

Alliance...4 times inside the ten this year and we drop the ball...didn't finish...total record against them we 15 to 8..but I can .go back to 1987 and we lost 7 to 3...inside the 5 four times and do not score

Games that we should have lost GlenOak 21 to 17...miracle on 44th st, Copley 38 to 35..score with 2 secs left...down 10 points twice, Olentangy Liberty 31 to 14...we threw 6 interceptions and starting tailback hurt first play. I can give you more...you pick your games that Lake lost and I will pick games that Lake won...I will have more

"Smoove thinkin' back in recentificated history (well, that Smoove can rememberate since Smoove do enjoy his Liquor quite frequentatiously), and Smoove tryin' to thinkify of a game that they had come out voktoroiously in that they ain't 'posed to be winnin'?!? " Your statement is about making plays or not making plays........ character is how the kids represent Lake and the football program when they are away from the locker room.

Burrito's for everyone!
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BSO,
Smoove is starting to think the BS in BSO is for :poop:. Yousay the laat time Green beat Lake wa s1963......Hecks!!!! Y'all must be realtionship to Joe Freakin' Biden cause you musta forgotted aboucht 2021 losin' 24-14, and then just this last year gettin' rippified 28-0, when y'all was lookin' for title materialsisitc stuff!!!
Now you can can go and quote stuff from Webster or Thesaurus, but fact is, do you think the kids have the coach's back when puhsification come to shovifyin'?
Smoove just askifyin', don't go gettin;' all defensivified!
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
Dover will play us then they drop us...you never know with them. Akron East did leave us but they require a $5000 fee to play them...so was kind of a mutual situation....They dropped Jackson and Dover also...and if you include the year before they dropped us, Jackson, Perry, and Dover
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Akron East has a tariff program and I fully support tariffs.
 
Playoffs??? said:
I know personally kids that quit because of his antics and playing favs, and he DOES NOT support mutil-sport kids, especially wrestlers. There are a few probably 6-8 years ago, don’t quote me on that time, had some great pitchers and athletes that were wrestlers and barely saw the field. A returning all PAC player is choosing not to play this year and only play travel ball because it’s literally not fun playing for the guy and this isn’t some punk kid with an attitude problem, soft spoken works his A** keeps his head down. Not my kid, we all know each other well enough by now and enough posts that you know I have skin in the game in several sports with my own minions. if things don’t change I could see more saying the hell with HS ball. Travel ball is a better product anyways and where kids get noticed, especially when you have a coach like this. Not trying to get crappy with ya, all in the name of PACtion and good conversation. I just know what I’ve seen the last 10 years with my own eyes with this guy as the AD and specifically with baseball.

I’ll agree that the talent took a dip in a few years, not much any coach can do about that. We’ll see what happens this year, just like in football, there were some cancers that needed to go as well and that’s also not on him.
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Yeah I mean definitely nothing personal against you, I appreciate your opinion on the subject and I agree this is all just good conversation.

I would say there have been a good number of the stand out baseball players since he has been there that were 2-3 sport athletes. Are you saying he is discriminating against just wrestlers in particular? I am relatively familiar with who has come through both baseball and the wrestling programs (at least at the varsity level) over the past decade plus and I am not sure who really even fits the bill of what you are describing. Not saying it hasn't happened, but not sure why it would benefit Burkett (a coach with well over 300 career wins) to pin (no pun attended) someone to the bench just because they are a wrestler.

I don't know the kid you are referring to who is choosing not to play this year. But I will say if he can't handle playing for Burkett for 2.5 months a year, then I think he's going to have a tough time making it at the next level if that is his goal and a tough time in the real world in general. And that's just being honest. I am not saying Burkett is holly jolly Santa Claus out there coaching or anything, but to make it seem like the playing conditions are so unbearable that it is justifiable for an all-league kid to walk away from his team is laughable I'm sorry. It feels like there has to be more going on there with either the kid or his parents.
 
I also feel like there isn't a program on earth that exists where kids/parents don't feel slighted...whether perceived or real. Baseball seems to be the biggest example too for some reason. While there is always some truth to it (kids play for coaches travel team, dads used to play with coaches) largely kids and parents can't accept they're really not better than someone else.
 
wonder if the new superintendent at Orrville will make changes to the head football coach and the head boys basketball coach and the athletic director who is not even qualified to be the AD , she is a certified athletic trainer. the football coach and basketball coaches were from J Ritchey and handed the jobs,The football staff needs a revamp you dont lose games up 21 in the 4th qtr, and the basketball program looks like the kids dont even care. im sure the principal can go to ,he is and was just a ritchey puppet. Orrville sports used to pretty good each year now with this in place is the worst in the county and a laughing stock of the area. SOMETHING needs to change real fast or its going to get worse and be to hard to come back from.
 
CrusaderZip0004 said:
I also feel like there isn't a program on earth that exists where kids/parents don't feel slighted...whether perceived or real. Baseball seems to be the biggest example too for some reason.
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Baseball is one of the few sports with strict substitution rules and limitations. We always need to re-educate our younger players that, if Little Johnny is on the bench then pinch hits for Little Bobby, and Little Bobby goes back into the game, Little Johnny is done for the game and cannot reenter. It's not like football or basketball where you can sub every dead ball if you wanted to. It is because of this that playing time always becomes an more of an issue in baseball than other sports, IMO.
 
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