#PACtion™ 2024

No offense but they only played ONE team last year with a winning record and were outscored 50-226 in league play. Comparing that to the second worst team in the league, the 1-9 Manchester Panthers, they were outscored 124-196. Coaching absolutely matters but I don't know if prime Vince Lombardi is helping a team with a -176 point differential win any more games than the two they won last year


Doesn't inheriting quality programs play a much bigger role in those records than anything else? Sarbaugh is the only one that is still on their first team
I like metrics and stats as much as the next guy, but those are about as useful as t**s on a bull when it comes to predicting HS sports. We'll see what happens, stated before Dial is a huge step in the right direction, but kids have to execute at the end of the day. Previous regime gave them no chance, so the sample set from the last 5 years (especially the last 2) does not tell anyone anything. Throw the tape out.

Switching PACtion to a little baseball talk since Spring is in the air, wish they'd throw out Grounds keeper Willy while they are cleaning house. Funny tales from the mainstream social media, everyone obviously tripping over themselves to re-post the Dial hire in this look at me society, and in some local Tuslaw posts, Willy's own kid didn't' like it too much when people were posting that he needs to go as well. Must-see TV I gotta say, the best response to him was if you don't like it unfriend me LOL. Clearly, they do not have the thick skin that it takes to be part of PACtion
 
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Doesn't inheriting quality programs play a much bigger role in those records than anything else? Sarbaugh is the only one that is still on their first team
And that is a GREAT point. I don't have the history (or time to look it up) but you could very easily argue that Louisville & New Philly were great programs before those coaches got there and they maintained the success.

Very interesting question. Might have to dig into that after lunch.
 
Historically Northwest without Mick would have been roughly what they were last year....Canton South might not have the same history but Dennison didn't get to 182 wins by lucking into players. Obviously neither team is as good without those types of players but again, historically Fairless has not been on that level....Also again, I think the proof will be in the pudding this year for the Falcons...
I think the cupboard is not very full at Fairless. It's always hard to tell what is coming up through the ranks but the JV squad got blanked 41-0 a year ago vs. CVCA. No idea about how they fared against the other PAC schools on Saturday mornings. But just by comparative scores, you can tell the younger guys at South, Northwest and Manchester were much more competitive, which is a strong indication (but not always 100% accurate) of who might be competitive at the varsity level over the next few years.

We all saw what surrounded Colucci a year ago. There was no Ring of Fire celebration until very late in the year, as the Falcons dropped their first three at home, only to pick up home wins in Weeks 9 and 10 against Manchester and Tuslaw to help salvage what turned out to be a 4-win season.

What is documented was that Sarbaugh was looking to jump ship after the 2021 season. Perhaps he's more comfortable long-term at Fairless now. But the history of his interest in other programs is documented across the Yappi-sphere.

He reportedly put his hat in the ring for jobs at Ellet and Stow after that 9-2 season in 2021. The link to the Ellet interest is here and the post tying him to that opening follows:
Someone was asking for names. I've been told APS has not been impressed with the applicant pool this go around. I guess only a handful of applicants and I've only heard a few names. AJ Sarbaugh from Fairless, Bob Manchester recently from Claymont but has APS ties, and Ryan Canavan from Ellet but only a couple years of Varsity coaching experience and has not coached the last few years.
He was also reportedly associated the Stow opening that year, when there was lots of smoke on the 2021 Stow-Monroe Falls Head Coach thread. Here is a reference to him, and there was a lot more talk about how he would (or wouldn't do) at Stow:
Southeast coach and Fairless coach I hear are in the running

What is true is that Sarbaugh did stick around. He followed up the 9-win campaign in 2021 with another 9-win season in 2022 and a playoff win, before falling back to just four wins a year ago. Given what the Falcons did a year ago, he has perhaps his toughest coaching job yet in front of him here in 2024.
 
And that is a GREAT point. I don't have the history (or time to look it up) but you could very easily argue that Louisville & New Philly were great programs before those coaches got there and they maintained the success.

Very interesting question. Might have to dig into that after lunch.
  • New Philadelphia was 29-51 in the 8 seasons before Dennison's arrival and had one winning season from 1985 to 2002, the year before Dennison arrived.
  • Louisville was 93-26 in the ten years prior to DeMarco ascending to the head coaching position there, and he was on staff as an assistant coach for that entire run.
 
CVCA was just ran out of the league being the only private school in the conference so I doubt CCC is going to be invited. CVCA won or was co champ in football maybe 2-3 times. My bet is that CCC would win the PAC almost yearly with most games being a running clock in football.
Is CCC even looking for a league? Have they ever been in a league?
 
1. Compliments on quoting your own post to ensure it gets seen. That's a great way to earn the "HEY! LOOK AT ME!" merit badge

2. Does CCC want in the PAC? Because if they join, they'll lose the "but we play an unbelievably tough schedule" card that they like to play every time they end up with a .500 record

3. A D6 private school could be a fit for the current league, but it would depend if the D4s would accept since it would hurt them the most for playoff seeding.

4. If the PAC let in a D6 school with green colors that wasn't named Mogadore . . . . watchout! There's a few folks on here that would lose their collective crap!
A D6 Catholic school in a local public D4 and D5 league...would CCC take kids from the public schools they play? CCC has shown not do this but with Trucker it seems they have relaxed this stance. a bit. The bigger question is or will CCC and St. Thomas merge? I think eventually money will force this issue...the fans can say what they want but look at what they are currently doing with the dioceses.
 
  • New Philadelphia was 29-51 in the 8 seasons before Dennison's arrival and had one winning season from 1985 to 2002, the year before Dennison arrived.
  • Louisville was 93-26 in the ten years prior to DeMarco ascending to the head coaching position there, and he was on staff as an assistant coach for that entire run.
Boom! 'Cuse with the OUTSTANDING research. Wow. At first glance those numbers make me think that Dennison should be top on the PAC list and DeMarco a little lower.
 
A D6 Catholic school in a local public D4 and D5 league...would CCC take kids from the public schools they play? CCC has shown not do this but with Trucker it seems they have relaxed this stance. a bit. The bigger question is or will CCC and St. Thomas merge? I think eventually money will force this issue...the fans can say what they want but look at what they are currently doing with the dioceses.
Would they accept a transfer? I'm sure. Has Klinefelter or Trucker ever went to a non feeder school to promote CCC? No. What makes you say they've relaxed that stance?
 
  • New Philadelphia was 29-51 in the 8 seasons before Dennison's arrival and had one winning season from 1985 to 2002, the year before Dennison arrived.
  • Louisville was 93-26 in the ten years prior to DeMarco ascending to the head coaching position there, and he was on staff as an assistant coach for that entire run.
John was brought into Louisville by Paul Farrah....and in all that time John was the O Coord and Farrah may have changed the play call 5 times. John didn't really want to become the head coach in the beginning....but I think the adjustment to a new head coach would have been a lot more difficult.

That is surprising about New Philly's win loss record....they never did beat Lake but they did have a lot of athletes...Cie Grant and his brother just to name a few

The question is did Dennison go to South because of Poochie? It was an odd switch at the time...or at least to my memory...lol
 
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Would they accept a transfer? I'm sure. Has Klinefelter or Trucker ever went to a non feeder school to promote CCC? No. What makes you say they've relaxed that stance?
Just going by the conversations that I have heard....it is not a glaring overt statement....the Lake coaches and the CCC coaches have a good relationship...but the pressure to keep a program winning does come into play
 
Northwest is the largest or close now that CVCA is leaving
Demarco won 3 NBC titles in his 9 years of HC at Louisville
 
Not sure. It'd make scheduling a lot easier. In the 70's they were in the HOF conference with other canton schools and 80's in the inter-county conference with Catholic schools in stark summit mahoning etc...
I forgot they were in the leagues in the 70's and 80's....all the schools were larger then
 
Just going by the conversations that I have heard....it is not a glaring overt statement....the Lake coaches and the CCC coaches have a good relationship...but the pressure to keep a program winning does come into play
There's no pressure to keep CCC a winning program. you'd have to have a fanbase that cared first. There's a pressure to keep the doors open so I think they're more welcoming of transfers than they used to be... but nothings changed about how they field a football team in it's existence... CCC goes thru good classes and has success then they have decade long average teams. That's just how it's always been and how it always will be.
 
There's no pressure to keep CCC a winning program. you'd have to have a fanbase that cared first. There's a pressure to keep the doors open so I think they're more welcoming of transfers than they used to be... but nothings changed about how they field a football team in it's existence... CCC goes thru good classes and has success then they have decade long average teams. That's just how it's always been and how it always will be.
A lot of what was said could have been to keep doors open...the conversations may have been because of this issue...the fact that it was brought up shows that times were changing because of all the Catholic schools Lake has to fend off, CCC was never an issue... it is a different time then when Klinefelter and Durbin were coaching
 
Boom! 'Cuse with the OUTSTANDING research. Wow. At first glance those numbers make me think that Dennison should be top on the PAC list and DeMarco a little lower.
Think we’re splitting hairs at this point. There’s something to be said for maintaining a championship-level pedigree for two decades.

Let’s see what life after Poochie looks like for Dennison at South.

DeMarco winning more than he lost at Northwest after losing the entire OL, 9 of 11 starters on offense, and the top returning offensive player, not one but two years in a row speaks volumes to me.
 
A lot of what was said could have been to keep doors open...the conversations may have been because of this issue...the fact that it was brought up shows that times were changing because of all the Catholic schools Lake has to fend off, CCC was never an issue... it is a different time then when Klinefelter and Durbin were coaching
That is for sure. CCC was a D3/D4 school back then. Now they're struggling to keep the doors open.
 
Think we’re splitting hairs at this point. There’s something to be said for maintaining a championship-level pedigree for two decades.

Let’s see what life after Poochie looks like for Dennison at South.

DeMarco winning more than he lost at Northwest after losing the entire OL, 9 of 11 starters on offense, and the top returning offensive player, not one but two years in a row speaks volumes to me.
I was not being a spoiler
however in his former position - the school was larger than nearly everyone in the league and the school also didn't really schedule "up" until they were left in the cold from the league. For instance, Lake would play them every year - and up until the league thing they really didn't play very often ( I know the year they both had an opening and the playoff game as well)

I think the measure of a coach is how do they do when they are the underdog in a game.
 
John was brought into Louisville by Paul Farrah....and in all that time John was the O Coord and Farrah may have changed the play call 5 times. John didn't really want to become the head coach in the beginning....but I think the adjustment to a new head coach would have been a lot more difficult.

That is surprising about New Philly's win loss record....they never did beat Lake but they did have a lot of athletes...Cie Grant and his brother just to name a few

The question is did Dennison go to South because of Poochie? It was an odd switch at the time...or at least to my memory...lol
Dennison got out at New Philly to move to an admin position and I think, and have been told by some, that things got a little stale for him after so many years and was tired. I was told he was done and going to ride an admin position into retirement. Obviously that didn't happen. He jumped on South a year later. I was wondering if maybe South played Medina Buckeye and his brother gave him a heads up about talent coming up, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
 
Think we’re splitting hairs at this point. There’s something to be said for maintaining a championship-level pedigree for two decades.

Let’s see what life after Poochie looks like for Dennison at South.

DeMarco winning more than he lost at Northwest after losing the entire OL, 9 of 11 starters on offense, and the top returning offensive player, not one but two years in a row speaks volumes to me.
Durbin was a Dennison trained offensive coach.....so John had to work with an i formation. He wanted to throw the ball a lot but Durbin was in Tressell mode....I know John was tinkering and learning as much as what was available about the spread but there wasn't a lot...just Durbin would set up the players to run the ball that is why all our best athletes were running backs and not QB's. John has a great ability to adapt...he just hates to....but he likes to win.
 
I think the measure of a coach is how do they do when they are the underdog in a game.
I've always thought something similar. "When was the last time we won a game we weren't supposed to win?" Of course, if your coach has built the program to where they are only the underdog when playing a giant, it's difficult to really keep proving yourself once you're near the top of the totem pole.
 
I like metrics and stats as much as the next guy, but those are about as useful as t**s on a bull when it comes to predicting HS sports. We'll see what happens, stated before Dial is a huge step in the right direction, but kids have to execute at the end of the day. Previous regime gave them no chance, so the sample set from the last 5 years (especially the last 2) does not tell anyone anything. Throw the tape out.

Switching PACtion to a little baseball talk since Spring is in the air, wish they'd throw out Grounds keeper Willy while they are cleaning house. Funny tales from the mainstream social media, everyone obviously tripping over themselves to re-post the Dial hire in this look at me society, and in some local Tuslaw posts, Willy's own kid didn't' like it too much when people were posting that he needs to go as well. Must-see TV I gotta say, the best response to him was if you don't like it unfriend me LOL. Clearly, they do not have the thick skin that it takes to be part of PACtion
What is your beef with Burkett from a baseball perspective? I think you and Rich have documented your opinions from an AD perspective, but legitimately curious on the baseball side of things.
 
I was not being a spoiler
however in his former position - the school was larger than nearly everyone in the league and the school also didn't really schedule "up" until they were left in the cold from the league. For instance, Lake would play them every year - and up until the league thing they really didn't play very often ( I know the year they both had an opening and the playoff game as well)

I think the measure of a coach is how do they do when they are the underdog in a game.
Remember they play Hoover every year....so why would you play 2 Fed teams in your out of conference...at least Hoover was D 1 at the time. There was no real benefit to play Lake...we were both D 2 then they went to D 3..for a Lake situation it was a huge benefit to playing Louisvile...they would go 8 and 2 and help carry us into the playoffs...yet if Louisville beat us they were not going to get may Harbins from us because we would not be as good and then have to play our Fed Schedule....and if they did play us there was a chance they would see us again in the playoffs....thru this time you had 4 teams to make the playoffs then it went to 8

I just know this....the people at Louisville would probably like a do over on when and why they did not retain John as their head coach
 
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What is your beef with Burkett from a baseball perspective? I think you and Rich have documented your opinions from an AD perspective, but legitimately curious on the baseball side of things.
Fox Tv Popcorn GIF by The Four
 
Dennison got out at New Philly to move to an admin position and I think, and have been told by some, that things got a little stale for him after so many years and was tired. I was told he was done and going to ride an admin position into retirement. Obviously that didn't happen. He jumped on South a year later. I was wondering if maybe South played Medina Buckeye and his brother gave him a heads up about talent coming up, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
I looked up an article on what happened...here is a great reminder....he has a better record then I thought at New Philly

 
I looked up an article on what happened...here is a great reminder....he has a better record then I thought at New Philly

Matt is a great guy who goes out of his way to help a lot of coaches in the programs around him. He had a really good staff for years at New Philly and some of those guys started to move on from coaching.

BtW your comment on Coach Durbin being an I guy brought back a lot of memories. Another great guy who did a lot for his players.
 
Matt is a great guy who goes out of his way to help a lot of coaches in the programs around him. He had a really good staff for years at New Philly and some of those guys started to move on from coaching.

BtW your comment on Coach Durbin being an I guy brought back a lot of memories. Another great guy who did a lot for his players.
Durbs is a great guy...also is amazing to watch him, Demarco, Viscounte, and DeGeorge watch game film...what they see in the first view is amazing...John and Dan also can devise plays that will work to what they are seeing....that is what makes a great O coord...how they can attack a defense with the talent they have....Durbs and Viscounte can do the same thing from a Defensive side. Durbs is also a person that understand PMA....Positive Mental Attitude...Jim Dennison was huge on this....it is the one thing I remember and use from College
 
Durbs is a great guy...also is amazing to watch him, Demarco, Viscounte, and DeGeorge watch game film...what they see in the first view is amazing...John and Dan also can devise plays that will work to what they are seeing....that is what makes a great O coord...how they can attack a defense with the talent they have....Durbs and Viscounte can do the same thing from a Defensive side. Durbs is also a person that understand PMA....Positive Mental Attitude...Jim Dennison was huge on this....it is the one thing I remember and use from College
Which is also a staple of the younger Dennison's program. He had PMA on the helmets for years. I've heard some Durbs, Kehres, Dennison(Jim), and Hertler(Son) stories as well.
 
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