AllSports12
Moderator
Well, (and I believe someone already mentioned this) obviously we are talking about plays like this one.
One of the dirtiest plays I've ever seen
- Thread starter PURPLE REIGN
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Refs are in a tough spot. Ncaa and NBA refs are given replay to help figure these plays out. These plays are tough to officiate in real time. Teams have instant access to film on the sideline with the hudl cameras. No doubt in my mind the officials would have ejected the kid if the saw the replay.
The action I have seen multiple times this season. The end result can vary based on the result of the fouled player and baseline area. (wall, bleachers, students, players falling)
3rd Knuckle
New member
Certainly an ugly looking play
Maybe that is the expectation- win at all costs. St. X has fired the coaches that didn’t beat Moeller consistently.
I disagree with that - that was an easy call - refs didn't have the gonads to make the correct call. I could see if he was going for a layup/dunk and the X player went airborn and karate chopped him and hit his head instead of arm/ball. Experience should have come into play that there is only one way a player goes flying into the stands head first like that and that is a blatant push in the back. Rules are black & white on what needed to be called.
As someone who was there- one thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet is things the second time he tried to do this during that game, first time he whiffed and almost fell himself. He had the ball picked from his hands and came down the court with smoke coming out of his ears. Look I agree I have four kids have played high school basketball. I’ve seen them all get heated and make poor decisions but I’ve also seen their coaches make sure that they understood they can’t do that.
if you watch the video from the sideline coverage, it was very fortunate that Alex was able to lift his head up just slightly before he collided into the stands. I truly believe that was a difference between him, being injured and carted off the court. One thing that has not been mentioned that I’ve seen in this thread is that the court conditions at St. X Friday night were awful. The floor was sweating and made many players fall and the ball slippery. They had personnel from Saint out there mopping the floors with towels the entire second half of the game they even had one of the custodians come out with the floor mopper “Zamboni” trying to get the situation under control to no avail. The fourth quarter lasted almost 45 minutes with all the commotion and the drying of the floor.
I too have seen a ton of high school basketball games and this was about as bad as it gets in my opinion. As a parent of players, I am not sure if I would allow my son who did this to stay on the court,
Or play for a coach who allowed them to.
How do you learn if it’s essentially condoned by the coaching staff? He learned that he could intentionally try to seriously hurt another player and got to shoot free throws, get the ball back and keep playing…great lesson
WhoDeyThink
Active member
As a St. X fan, no doubt #33 should've been tossed once you see and have benefit of the video. In real time, refs miss bad calls all the time and I originally thought #23 fouled him. Fleming was down on opposite end of the floor and behind the play, so he didn't exactly have the best of views.
From what I've heard, Fleming made #33 call the Moe head coach and sat out the 1st half of the LW game. I'd been OK with him sitting out one full game based on his bad decision. Both the Moe player and #23 from St. X could've been injured based off his actions.
Nobody, including #33 are perfect. Teenagers make unwise choices on the daily that have negative consequences (on and off court, field, etc) to themselves and others. This is part of the growing up and maturity process. Adults will quickly bash a teenager on social media/forums, which is unfortunately today's reality (discussion for another day), but eventually this is a teaching moment. Hopefully, all parties learn from #33s glaring mistake.
As for the game, Moe is a better basketball team. Got some long lengthy players, plus some solid guards who take care of the basketball and as a team play solid man-to-man defense. My two cents!
From what I've heard, Fleming made #33 call the Moe head coach and sat out the 1st half of the LW game. I'd been OK with him sitting out one full game based on his bad decision. Both the Moe player and #23 from St. X could've been injured based off his actions.
Nobody, including #33 are perfect. Teenagers make unwise choices on the daily that have negative consequences (on and off court, field, etc) to themselves and others. This is part of the growing up and maturity process. Adults will quickly bash a teenager on social media/forums, which is unfortunately today's reality (discussion for another day), but eventually this is a teaching moment. Hopefully, all parties learn from #33s glaring mistake.
As for the game, Moe is a better basketball team. Got some long lengthy players, plus some solid guards who take care of the basketball and as a team play solid man-to-man defense. My two cents!
Doublehelix
Well-known member
Good post.
And I'm sure Kremer was gracious and thankful on that phone call, and probably gave the kid some good counsel while also trying to prop him up at the same time. The GCL coaches want to win, but they understand their purpose in life as well, even for kids on the other teams. There is respect there, even though some of the adults still think they're in high school too.
Moeller is looking very dangerous lately - Final Four capable for sure.
Redandgold
Well-known member
That didn’t need a replay.
I agree and talked to a couple local refs who watched the footage who said as much. The head scratcher for me is the X coaches saw the play on video, had a chance to correct their response and only gave a half game suspension.
I wasn’t there…and generally could care less about the GCL..I played high school in the late 70’s-early 80’s…In my world my own Father would have kicked my and HE would have either suspended me or told me I was done for the year…I was a pretty good amateur golfer (as were my Father and Grandfather)…I got mad and threw a club at a tournament…..my Dad took my clubs and told me no golf till next year…lesson learned. The problem here is all of the adults not handling the situation. Half a game 
…might as well give the kid a box of ho ho’s and a new video game.
…might as well give the kid a box of ho ho’s and a new video game.Again, thats east to say while you are watching the replay. in real time you get 1 crack at it. A flagrant foul is a harsh penalty. its an ejection and 2 game suspension, You want to be 100% sure you get it right.
seantaylorcook
New member
As a Coach and Ref this should've been easy call to make. A flagrant foul in my point of view is the proper penalty. Player made no attempt on the ball clearly a push in the back. As a former coach in the league. My fellow refs tend to call GCL games differently for some reason. I hated it as a coach. When I was doing my 1st set of JV games over 20 years ago at halftime a Varsity ref told me we don't call those fouls in the GCL.
I responded a foul is a foul I don't care what league. From that point I told myself this isn't the league for me to ref.
I responded a foul is a foul I don't care what league. From that point I told myself this isn't the league for me to ref.
Doublehelix
Well-known member
I've always had a theory on this and every ref on here tells me I'm a conspiracy theorist. But why do refs that do GCL games call games like this?
My theory is that the GCL coaches prefer this style and they demand refs call it this way, otherwise they don't get more GCL games. Is there truth in this, or something else entirely? IMO, allowing this style of play has completely ruined GCL basketball in alot of ways, and some nights, it doesn't even resemble basketball.
GCL coaches would rather have enforcers on their teams than to actually coach offensive skills. I never understood it, and still don't. Big aggressive football players get more run in the GCL than actual kids that have basketball talent. And in schools where there's plenty of basketball talent. Never made sense to me.
I agree with this because it’s unforgivable to miss it the other way.
I am just glad my high school years both on and off the court weren’t recorded on video. Then my worst regretted moments weren’t posted by a grown middle class adult stranger to post publicly and shamed in order to make themelves feel righteous.
Going back to the early 70's, GCL basketball has always been an extremely physical league influenced significantly by the great Hans Frey style of playing hard nose basketball. In the past 10+ years, the physicality of the league has been more pronounced as the movement of the sport has gone to more of a finesse game versus a grudge match.
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Watched in real time sitting next to X basketball parents and they were shocked he wasn’t tossed. Watched the replay immediately to see if maybe the ref had a bad angle or wasn’t in position- nope,
Clear shot by not one but two guys and it should have been an easy flagrant call. Cannot imagine a more clear cut example of a flagrant call than this was.
Let me guess, he was playing Turpin.
GreenandBluePride
Member
He could have easily permanently injured that young man. It was as dirty as it gets and not a typical high school basketball play. Nobody is trying to make themselves “feel righteous.” The kid and the coaches need to be called out so this crap comes to a halt. Obviously the staff and school aren’t going to do anything on their own.
taximama24
Active member
There is also a teachable moment the first time any high school athlete takes advantage of social media to post their highlight clips, hoping it helps get them noticed by college scouts or increase their fan base for the purposes of future NIL money: Expect that by sharing the positives of their talent there that the negatives of their game will be there too.
But nobody is complaining when an adult stranger posts/likes/shares/retweets a high school player's best play of the night on socials when it gets them the same recognition on the other side of the coin. Two way street and these kids know that, just like Waleskowski knew he shoved the guy who took the ball out of his hands into the bleachers to make himself feel better...or even righteous.
BullWhistle
Active member
A lot of us echo your feelings on the lack of availability of recording devices during our youth!!
At the end of the day, the kid made a bad decision that could have brought about some serious injuries to his opponent. We can all chime in and try to armchair quarterback this scenario but in the end, the coaches are left with the responsibility to hand out the punishment(s) which might not necessarily be within the public purview. Let's hope all parities have learned lessons on how to be competitive without being dirty.
What's more interesting and questionable, is who captured the video and how did it end up on social media via someone else? That perspective isn't one available to just anyone and I didn't see any of players on the bench with their cell phones. Lends itself to question the motive(s) behind the videographer but then again, this isn't their first rodeo when it comes to self-righteousness.
EHS 2001
Moderator
The video was posted to Twitter by Moeller’s JV coach. Personally, I first saw it on Saturday because the algorithm that drives Twitter’s “For You” tab surfaced it.
BullWhistle
Active member
I got the same "For You" on Saturday as well. The JV coach wasn't the one doing the recording.
I am aware of who posted it on twitter, and I am not huge fan of that either. However , I am talking about posting it on yappi with the title “dirtiest play ever” about a kid.
No kiddin captain obvious , it was dirty as heck, and the Moeller kids involved showed unbelievable restraint.
Doublehelix
Well-known member
For sure.
It was obvious the intent was to fan the flame of the main competitors of his beloved Elder high.
You wonder why I continue to post about them? It's because of things like this. There is a constant theme of self-righteousness from their fanbase (and especially the poster who started this thread) for calling out others as being "immoral", "dirty" and "cheating" while claiming that Elder does everything right and is behind the 8 ball in everything they do because they are the only institution that does things "the right way" - all while NEVER allowing anyone else to question their methods or antics over the years (which there have been some doozies).
It's completely nauseating and worthy of being called out at every turn.
I think we disagree, as I believe it’s a very small minority who act or think that way. They just tend to be the boisterous ones.
Doublehelix
Well-known member
On yappi, there's certainly a disproportionate amount who are boisterous, which isn't surprising for a message board.
This constant "we are the underdog and everyone is after us" mentality is nauseating. If there's one thing @Omar is right about, it's this.
I can't even begin to tell us how many people I've heard talk in Elder circles that constantly bring up this "cheating" mantra when it comes to the rest of the GCL. It's pervasive and consistent within their circles, for sure, especially among the families of athletes.
WhoDeyThink
Active member
Adult strangers posting vids or pics (good or bad) of kids or teenagers is odd and unfortunately is too commonplace on social media. A lot of adults post for a reaction (positive or negative) at the expense of an adolescent. Increase followers, attention grasping, or simply feeding their own individual agendas.
An emotional parent coming on Yappi or posting on Twitter isn't a surprise these days. What I find most troubling is when adults who are hired and represent a school immediately go to social media for the sole purpose of attacking a teenager or a rival school. What happened to character, forgiveness, and faith at these GCL South institutions? That's the hypocritical side and everything wrong with social media. Adults today have forgotten their roles is to educate during the best and worst of times at these schools. There is something glaringly wrong when an adults first reaction is to turn to social media and totally forgets the 24/7 mission of "Forming our Students into Remarkable Men" or "Men For Others"
Heard an individual call social media a pick and choose loose voice. It sure does apply in the world we live in today!