OHSAA Studying Expansion of Tournament Divisions in Several Sports (Not Football)
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Football needs one less and basketball needs one more. D2 is really your problem, that essentially all of Football D3 to large D5’s. You get some awkward mismatches in that setup
How does this increase revenue for OHSAA?Everyone gets a trophy and the OHSAA gets to pad the coffers even more. A win win
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
More fans show up to regional and state games plus they charge more for those tickets. With more divisions there will be more regional and state games.
I suppose that’s possible. But I wouldn’t immediately assume attendance will see a profitable increase. Costs will also go up with having to rent the big time arenas for more time/days.
My impression is that any revenue they actually see from TV/streaming is negligible at best.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
You said revenue now you bring up an unrelated topic of costs. Revenue is the amount of money received. Costs are the expenses to put on an event. There is zero chance they do not have higher revenues with more divisions (more regional/state games produce more revenue than sectional games) anyone that doesn't admit that is ignorant or a liar.
Exactly. Increasing gross revenue is not the same as increasing net revenue.
You can increase your gross revenue from $100 to $200, but if your costs go from $75 to $175 your net revenue is a wash.
I don't think it's the state championship winning coaches that want this.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
That is not net revenue. What you are describing is operating profit.
Net revenue is defined as a company’s sales (revenue) minus discounts and returns.
Not necessarily. Different places use different terms, especially when we're talking about non-profits versus for-profits. FWIW, I've never seen the definition you have above used anywhere, and I've reviewed a lot of P&Ls in both the non-profit and for-profit sectors. Typically, net revenue is at a minimum gross minus cost of goods sold.
You’re correct, I said revenue first then profits later, and those are not the same thing. I think it’s a safe assumption revenue will increase, but I’m not sure if it will be a profitable venture.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
As 25 years as an accountant I have never seen or heard of costs being part of any revenue calculations. Please provide an examples I would like to see that since you have reviewed lots of P&L it should be easy to do. Here is what OHSAA calls revenue in there audited financial statement. Which is similar to every other revenue calculation I have ever seen. They call their operating profit "Change in net assets from operations".
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
I agree OHSAA doesn't disclose enough information to know if this will lead to more profitable tournaments. I would find it hard to believe that the extra rental cost for venues they rent for regional/state are higher than the extra revenue produced from the games over the sectional games they are no longer having. But either way this move is not a big net financial gain like doubling the number of football teams that make the play-offs was.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
One of the first points they tried to make was “this is a revenue neutral decision”. Seems like they like to make changes where revenue is increased. Wouldn’t there be more tourney games to charge admissions to. And those P&L statements sure look like something is being hidden. If they really wanted to be transparent they’d publish the general ledger.
No, the number of games will be the same. It’s the same number of teams in the tournament.
I was pretty surprised from the screenshot you posted how little non-tournament revenue the OHSAA is bringing in. Doubling the football playoffs makes even more sense (from their perspective) when you see that.
This should not be any part of the OHSAA discussion or decision.
That's true. All of the teams that won state championships last year didn't even care.
Just another game. Didn't mean anything.
I find that hard to believe.
Cost of goods sold is subtracted from gross revenue in every P&L I've ever seen for food service and retail to get to a net revenue number.
The most common definitions of net revenue reflect this (and often other costs being backed out of gross revenue).
You’re a weird dude, Oscar.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
I would love to see example of net revenue including cost of goods sold as I always look to be more educated on things. Because by definition revenue only refer to sales or cash brought in and nothing to do with cost.
Yes cost of goods sold is subtracted from revenue number on every P&L but the net of those too numbers are called operating profit or similar name such as Change in net assets from operations that OHSAA uses.
I was Oscar, how did you know?
TriangleMan
Hates Particle Man
Having a visual representation of the data often helps.
This is a chart that shows the 2023-2024 Competitive Balance Adjusted Enrollment for the sports under consideration for additional divisions along with Football. In the chart I have included a table that covers the enrollment range per Division in each sport.
We already knew this, but the biggest issue is in the first 100-150 schools with the highest enrollments, after which the data approaches a near-constant slope.
The table has been broken out in the next post.
This is a chart that shows the 2023-2024 Competitive Balance Adjusted Enrollment for the sports under consideration for additional divisions along with Football. In the chart I have included a table that covers the enrollment range per Division in each sport.
We already knew this, but the biggest issue is in the first 100-150 schools with the highest enrollments, after which the data approaches a near-constant slope.
The table has been broken out in the next post.
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TriangleMan
Hates Particle Man
See post above for relevance.
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BucksTrackHC
Member
Honestly, do not know how adding one more division to a sport like Track that has more kids involved in it then baseball and softball takes away from the meaning of a state championship. In D1 it is crazy how you have schools that have close to 1800 kids in the school go against 600. That is a major skew in my opinion. I also have never heard from any of the Track coaches that I know that think 4 divisions is a bad idea or would cheapen a state championship.
Agree 100% on track.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Toledo St. Johns with an enrollment of 440 boys won D1 track last year, seem like TSJ did just fine vs those schools with over 1000 boys.
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CC Track Fan
Well-known member
Yet they didn't even win their conference meet. All it takes to win a state title in track is a couple superstars. BTW TSJ enrollment base is actually the entire Toledo metro area and SE Michigan.