Notre Dame

Omar said:
I am bc you still don’t know how the transfers will pan out. I think it’s fair to say Coan worked out for this season, but he wouldn’t be good enough to win a Title.
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I was disappointed in their recent QB's. It is as if they changed their philospohy and went after a certain "type" which would be relatively shorter atheltic types but not neccisarily running QB's. Perhaps coincidence? Regardless they should be able to land a couple solid transfers.
 
irish_buffalo said:
I was disappointed in their recent QB's. It is as if they changed their philospohy and went after a certain "type" which would be relatively shorter atheltic types but not neccisarily running QB's. Perhaps coincidence? Regardless they should be able to land a couple solid transfers.
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I really think you’re glazing over how hard it is to find the caliber of QB that can win a Title. It’s possible to find a “decent” QB, but that’s not good enough.

Except for the poor depth at WR (the WR coach needs to be fired after the Bowl game), the only thing holding ND back is QB. I can’t help but think if they had a QB like Sam Howell from UNC on last yr’s team, they at least make Bama sweat a bit. They wouldn’t have beaten them bc that was an all time great team, but it would’ve helped change the narrative a bit.
 
Omar said:
I really think you’re glazing over how hard it is to find the caliber of QB that can win a Title. It’s possible to find a “decent” QB, but that’s not good enough.

Except for the poor depth at WR (the WR coach needs to be fired after the Bowl game), the only thing holding ND back is QB. I can’t help but think if they had a QB like Sam Howell from UNC on last yr’s team, they at least make Bama sweat a bit. They wouldn’t have beaten them bc that was an all time great team, but it would’ve helped change the narrative a bit.
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I'm not glazing anything. The transfer portal has increased movement like never seen before. Ian Book has average skills compared to Deshone Kizer. Any good QB should want to play at ND under Rees. We can and will do better than Pyne. Mark my words, they will get a decent QB or two via transfer.

Several things will never change about football. Defense wins championships and no matter how good you are at throwing the ball you still need to establish the run in order to win. These are two things Kelly routinely "glazed" over that Freeman appears to be fixing.

Once we have the D and run game you can win a title with guys like Connor Cook and Kirk Cousins. Guys that ND should routinely have on their roster moving forward.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Once we have the D and run game you can win a title with guys like Connor Cook and Kirk Cousins. Guys that ND should routinely have on their roster moving forward.
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Strongly disagree. That era of college football is over. This is the exact reason UGA has no chance to beat Bama this yr and it’s why they lost a w/ a 17-0 lead at halftime a few yrs ago. Offenses are too dynamic now to have a game manager out there just handing the ball off and completing short high % passes. Every QB to win a Title since ‘16 has been a 1st Round pick. You need a QB with an arm to stretch the field.
 
Omar said:
Strongly disagree. That era of college football is over. This is the exact reason UGA has no chance to beat Bama this yr and it’s why they lost a w/ a 17-0 lead at halftime a few yrs ago. Offenses are too dynamic now to have a game manager out there just handing the ball off and completing short high % passes. Every QB to win a Title since ‘16 has been a 1st Round pick. You need a QB with an arm to stretch the field.
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Strongly disagree. You are so infatuated with Bennett. Cousins and Cook are NFL guys who are ten times better than Bennett. Had the college version of Cook and Cousins been the Georgia QB this season they would probably win a title. They still might, never know. They are in the final 4 with a guy like Bennett which says something about the FACT below. I never said we would have ZERO offense. Freeman is building in the right direction. Relax and see what happens at QB.

This is a FACT. You need to play great D, and estabslish the run in order to win a title. It never changes.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Strongly disagree. You are so infatuated with Bennett. Cousins and Cook are NFL guys who are ten times better than Bennett. Had the college version of Cook and Cousins been the Georgia QB this season they would probably win a title. They still might, never know. They are in the final 4 with a guy like Bennett which says something about the FACT below. I never said we would have ZERO offense. Freeman is building in the right direction. Relax and see what happens at QB.

This is a FACT. You need to play great D, and estabslish the run in order to win a title. It never changes.
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And I disagree bc even though Cook and Cousins were far better QBs than Bennett, they wouldn’t be able to match Young in a shootout. The definition of great Defense has changed. It’s no longer completely shutting down a team, it’s getting stops on 3rd down or in the Red Zone. Even Bama no longer plays shutdown Defense bc it’s not possible in modern college football.

There’s a variety of ways to establish the run whether it’s with the Inside/Outside Zone, Jet Sweeps, Speed Option, or even WR Screens. It’s more about getting the edge than pounding the ball bw the Tackles. That’s still an important aspect of running the ball, even out of the Spread, but the days of lining up in the I formation and pounding the ball bw the Tackles are over.

Also, if you look at recent recruiting rankings. It’s not a surprise UGA is in the playoff. Frankly, that should be the expectation with the level they’ve recruited at. However, it’s not enough to just get to the playoff, it’s not even enough to just win a playoff game, you have to win it all. And Bennett will be the main reason they don’t get that done.
 
Omar said:
And I disagree bc even though Cook and Cousins were far better QBs than Bennett, they wouldn’t be able to match Young in a shootout. The definition of great Defense has changed. It’s no longer completely shutting down a team, it’s getting stops on 3rd down or in the Red Zone. Even Bama no longer plays shutdown Defense bc it’s not possible in modern college football.

There’s a variety of ways to establish the run whether it’s with the Inside/Outside Zone, Jet Sweeps, Speed Option, or even WR Screens. It’s more about getting the edge than pounding the ball bw the Tackles. That’s still an important aspect of running the ball, even out of the Spread, but the days of lining up in the I formation and pounding the ball bw the Tackles are over.

Also, if you look at recent recruiting rankings. It’s not a surprise UGA is in the playoff. Frankly, that should be the expectation with the level they’ve recruited at. However, it’s not enough to just get to the playoff, it’s not even enough to just win a playoff game, you have to win it all. And Bennett will be the main reason they don’t get that done.
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If you go back and see my thread "College Football 2021" you will notice in using Phil Steele metrics Georgia is EASY top 4. I predicted that long before the season started.

Regardless, Bama has won with stout D and some average QB's. So did OSU in 2014. Guys of Cook and Cousins caliber can easily win a title with the right run game and defense.
 
irish_buffalo said:
If you go back and see my thread "College Football 2021" you will notice in using Phil Steele metrics Georgia is EASY top 4. I predicted that long before the season started.

Regardless, Bama has won with stout D and some average QB's. So did OSU in 2014. Guys of Cook and Cousins caliber can easily win a title with the right run game and defense.
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And those days are over. Every title winning QB since ‘16 has been a 1st round pick. There’s a reason Saban went out and hired Kiffin to be his OC. He saw what a truly elite QB in Deshaun Watson could do vs his vaunted Defenses. So he evolved and now Bama is an Offensive juggernaut mixed with a solid but not dominant Defense.
 
Omar said:
And those days are over. Every title winning QB since ‘16 has been a 1st round pick. There’s a reason Saban went out and hired Kiffin to be his OC. He saw what a truly elite QB in Deshaun Watson could do vs his vaunted Defenses. So he evolved and now Bama is an Offensive juggernaut mixed with a solid but not dominant Defense.
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I'm not arguing that fact and when ND establishes a great D and run game we can talk elite QB. The others have to happen first IMO. And we can simply agree to disagree your model. Minus Mac Jones you are talking some generational guys like Lawrence and Watson and Tua. Saban won titles with McElroy and McCarron too. You can say those days are over but they are not. Young is special but not compared to the aforementioned guys and the other 3 in the Final 4 this year are average at best. Play D and establish the run and you got a chance. Get there first.
 
irish_buffalo said:
I'm not arguing that fact and when ND establishes a great D and run game we can talk elite QB. The others have to happen first IMO. And we can simply agree to disagree your model. Minus Mac Jones you are talking some generational guys like Lawrence and Watson and Tua. Saban won titles with McElroy and McCarron too. You can say those days are over but they are not. Young is special but not compared to the aforementioned guys and the other 3 in the Final 4 this year are average at best. Play D and establish the run and you got a chance. Get there first.
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Again, it’s not about getting to the playoff, it’s about winning the title. Bama will likely win it all bc they have the best QB. If Young played for UGA, they’d win it all.

Also, ND already plays good Defense and runs the ball well. The thing that keeps them from being a serious title threat is the QB.
 
Omar said:
Again, it’s not about getting to the playoff, it’s about winning the title. Bama will likely win it all bc they have the best QB. If Young played for UGA, they’d win it all.

Also, ND already plays good Defense and runs the ball well. The thing that keeps them from being a serious title threat is the QB.
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We do not have a defense to win a National Title. Under Kelly, we constantly failed to establish the run. Start with the D. Good things will happen.

God Bless Omar.
 
irish_buffalo said:
We do not have a defense to win a National Title. Under Kelly, we constantly failed to establish the run. Start with the D. Good things will happen.

God Bless Omar.
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They didn’t have a championship D this yr but they certainly did last yr. And they ran the ball well both yrs they made the playoffs. They have depth at RB with Tyree and Diggs. And with how they’re recruiting on D, they’ll be championship level again. Regardless, there’s no more important position than QB, and they’re f’ing up
 
Omar said:
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Good stuff that I know well.

Your obsession with the QB is admirable. However, you fail to understand that these recent Bama and Clemson teams have top players everywhere. Without the Dline Clemson had several years ago they are not in the title game let alone win it. I understand the importance of the QB, and I believe ND will do better than they have in recent years when it comes to recruiting, but there is a total package here that starts with Defense.

I played and I coached, I was fortunate enough to clinic with Saban. And we are not talking a run-of-the-mill BS clinic where every Joe is invited to watch practice. I am talking private access to everything, meetings, and Q&A. The best staff I was able to clinic with was Dantonio's at MSU, who is a Saban disciple. Pat Narduzzi (DC) and Mike Tressel (LB coach - DC at Cincy now). Mattison at UM under Harbaugh was good but not like the MSU guys. When asked what their first concern is when it comes to recruiting all of these guys talk about emphasis at dline and then corners. A great Dline solves a lot of issues naturally. Awesome corners can shut down half the field. At no time did they discount the emphasis of landing a top QB but the point is you have FAR more control over recruiting and landing positions where guys can fit in several ways vs being pigeon holed at QB.

I will admit, I am obviously a D minded guy, and I am not saying you are wrong about the QB position and game changing, TO A DEGREE, and will repeat myself yet again, that we are trending in the right direction and the QB's will come.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Good stuff that I know well.

Your obsession with the QB is admirable. However, you fail to understand that these recent Bama and Clemson teams have top players everywhere. Without the Dline Clemson had several years ago they are not in the title game let alone win it. I understand the importance of the QB, and I believe ND will do better than they have in recent years when it comes to recruiting, but there is a total package here that starts with Defense.

I played and I coached, I was fortunate enough to clinic with Saban. And we are not talking a run-of-the-mill BS clinic where every Joe is invited to watch practice. I am talking private access to everything, meetings, and Q&A. The best staff I was able to clinic with was Dantonio's at MSU, who is a Saban disciple. Pat Narduzzi (DC) and Mike Tressel (LB coach - DC at Cincy now). Mattison at UM under Harbaugh was good but not like the MSU guys. When asked what their first concern is when it comes to recruiting all of these guys talk about emphasis at dline and then corners. A great Dline solves a lot of issues naturally. Awesome corners can shut down half the field. At no time did they discount the emphasis of landing a top QB but the point is you have FAR more control over recruiting and landing positions where guys can fit in several ways vs being pigeon holed at QB.

I will admit, I am obviously a D minded guy, and I am not saying you are wrong about the QB position and game changing, TO A DEGREE, and will repeat myself yet again, that we are trending in the right direction and the QB's will come.
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I’m not saying JUST the QB is enough, but he’s the key center piece. Without a stud QB, you’re not winning a Title.
 
Bill O'Brien has been around. Just pizz pounding the ball down Cincinnati's throat. Establishing the run first possesion which opens everything else up. For as much as the game changes, the recipe stays the same.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Bill O'Brien has been around. Just pizz pounding the ball down Cincinnati's throat. Establishing the run first possesion which opens everything else up. For as much as the game changes, the recipe stays the same.
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Yeah, but they’re playing a far inferior team. They won’t beat UGA or Michigan by just running the ball.
 
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