Maxpreps RPI to be used for Basketball Seeding

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SWOHHoops

Well-known member
Philly_Cat said:
No one has ever neen obligated to give them their game score or stats either. Relying on having to find your own information and people volunteering it to you is a huge difference between people being obligated to submit it all to you.
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Who is in charge of confirming accuracy? What is the penalty for not doing it? Leagues in SWOH tell all coaches to put accurate stats in the league website and some coaches don't. I've seen coaches not show up for the seed meeting even though there is a fine that comes with that.

Football has Eitel, soccer has Maher (not used for seeding), basketball used Martin last year in NWOH. These people put their names and reputation on their rankings so there is confidence it will be done relatively well. OHSAA/MaxPreps joint-venture being in charge of it seems like a coming train-wreck
 
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Philly_Cat

Well-known member
SWOHHoops said:
Who is in charge of confirming accuracy? What is the penalty for not doing it? Leagues in SWOH tell all coaches to put accurate stats in the league website and some coaches don't. I've seen coaches not show up for the seed meeting even though there is a fine that comes with that.

Football has Eitel, soccer has Maher (not used for seeding), basketball used Martin last year in NWOH. These people put their names and reputation on their rankings so there is confidence it will be done relatively well. OHSAA/MaxPreps joint-venture being in charge of it seems like a coming train-wreck
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But again I say, being told to do something creates a different level of accuracy than it being completely voluntary. Not saying everyone follows the rules in any scenario. Murder is illegal and punishable by torture and death in some places, yet we still have murder all over the world. Can we agree that if there was no laws against murder the murder rate would be even higher?
 
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spirit454

Well-known member
Philly_Cat said:
No one has ever neen obligated to give them their game score or stats either. Relying on having to find your own information and people volunteering it to you is a huge difference between people being obligated to submit it all to you.
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Last year coaches and AD kept their scored updated on Arbiter and MartinRPI had access to gather those scores weekly to run his calculations. OHSAA no longer uses Arbiter either.
 
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spirit454

Well-known member
SWOHHoops said:
Who is in charge of confirming accuracy? What is the penalty for not doing it? Leagues in SWOH tell all coaches to put accurate stats in the league website and some coaches don't. I've seen coaches not show up for the seed meeting even though there is a fine that comes with that.

Football has Eitel, soccer has Maher (not used for seeding), basketball used Martin last year in NWOH. These people put their names and reputation on their rankings so there is confidence it will be done relatively well. OHSAA/MaxPreps joint-venture being in charge of it seems like a coming train-wreck
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MartinRPI did not use stats it did everything from game scores and every school in the state was asked to send or keep them updated in Arbiter. BUT every school already had an account with Arbiter
 
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GREENDAY

Active member
This is a great move statewide to provide equality during the seeding process. It takes away the “good old boys club” and “conference cluster” voting approaches. Coaches from conferences with strong representation at these meetings will be disappointed - but nobody can say that it doesn’t provide more fairness.

It’s interesting that the OHSAA went with MaxPreps instead of Martin’s RPI, as Martin’s RPI seemingly did a great job with collecting ALL games and updating their RPI spreadsheet in a timely manner. They also included information for top offenses, top defenses, top strength of schedule and top margin of victory.

By going to computer points, this also begins an easier transition to move to larger blended districts across the state - or move to 6 or 7 divisions in the near future.
 
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419Jester

Active member
GREENDAY said:
This is a great move statewide to provide equality during the seeding process. It takes away the “good old boys club” and “conference cluster” voting approaches. Coaches from conferences with strong representation at these meetings will be disappointed - but nobody can say that it doesn’t provide more fairness.

It’s interesting that the OHSAA went with MaxPreps instead of Martin’s RPI, as Martin’s RPI seemingly did a great job with collecting ALL games and updating their RPI spreadsheet in a timely manner. They also included information for top offenses, top defenses, top strength of schedule and top margin of victory.

By going to computer points, this also begins an easier transition to move to larger blended districts across the state - or move to 6 or 7 divisions in the near future.
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Hopefully we never see the day of Ohio having 6 or 7 division.
 
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D1nwobb

Active member
In looking at the most recent OHSAA board minutes, having MaxPreps do an RPI for seeding was approved by 14 of the 16 OHSBCA districts. The OHSAA approved it 6-2 with both nays coming from board members out of the Southwest District.
 
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SWOHHoops

Well-known member
D1nwobb said:
In looking at the most recent OHSAA board minutes, having MaxPreps do an RPI for seeding was approved by 14 of the 16 OHSBCA districts. The OHSAA approved it 6-2 with both nays coming from board members out of the Southwest District.
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The SW District continues to be a shining light in the OHSAA... :):)
 
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Ericles

Well-known member
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419Jester

Active member
y2h said:
Hopefully this gets us closer to playoff qualifying rather than every gets in.
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A playoff qualifier will make teams schedule weaker out of conference matchups. Maybe not as bad as football is but it will definitely make a team less likely to schedule a brutal out of conference schedule. More teams would duck good competition to protect their points. But out of that would come less meaningless games in the sectional semis.
 
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serpico

Well-known member
Hback said:
Playing devils advocate here, how's it any different for football?
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1) It’s rare to see a football game sell out due to the possibility of standing room ‘seats’.
2) First-round football games are usually blowouts.
3) Football has never had ‘sectional’ double-headers.

I know it’s not the same everywhere, but this (west-central Ohio) area of the state has produced phenomenal sectional matchups. Now they’re going to be separated and one team will be at a distinct advantage. I. Hate. It.
 
Yappi

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
I still disagree with the highest seeds taking a 1st round game instead of a bye. My suggestion would be for the team that takes the bye to automatically be the home team.

I can't stand seeing a bracket where the #1 team hosts the lowest seed in the first round and the second lowest seed in the second round. If the #1 seed wants to pass on a bye, then make them go on the road in the second round. No reason to enable these back-to-back mismatches.
 
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Hback

Well-known member
serpico said:
1) It’s rare to see a football game sell out due to the possibility of standing room ‘seats’.
2) First-round football games are usually blowouts.
3) Football has never had ‘sectional’ double-headers.

I know it’s not the same everywhere, but this (west-central Ohio) area of the state has produced phenomenal sectional matchups. Now they’re going to be separated and one team will be at a distinct advantage. I. Hate. It.
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1.) There have been some fairly small sectional sites before where crowd size has been a concern
2.) First-round basketball games are usually blowouts
3.) That is true. Though a Saturday 2:30p/6p doubleheader playoff football game would be awesome!
 
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OH_sportsfan

Member
serpico said:
Garbage. Think of smaller gyms hosting a highly anticipated matchup. Tickets would have to split 50/50 now, I assume?
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All playoff ticket sales go to the OHSAA. Host schools get 0% of ticket revenue. OHSAA just sends a check with a flat fee to be used to cover the cost for running the game (all gameday workers, referees, security, etc..).
 
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serpico

Well-known member
OH_sportsfan said:
All playoff ticket sales go to the OHSAA. Host schools get 0% of ticket revenue. OHSAA just sends a check with a flat fee to be used to cover the cost for running the game (all gameday workers, referees, security, etc..).
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I hadn’t thought of that, but it really doesn’t change my objection. Our team is used to playing at nice, large sectional sites. If we get to host, our gym isn’t very big (or nice). It’s not going to be ideal for our home fans, and I’m sure the visitors would also rather play somewhere else.
 
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Philly_Cat

Well-known member
Hback said:
1.) There have been some fairly small sectional sites before where crowd size has been a concern
2.) First-round basketball games are usually blowouts
3.) That is true. Though a Saturday 2:30p/6p doubleheader playoff football game would be awesome!
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Half the 2nd round games are blowouts as well
 
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OH_sportsfan

Member
serpico said:
I hadn’t thought of that, but it really doesn’t change my objection. Our team is used to playing at nice, large sectional sites. If we get to host, our gym isn’t very big (or nice). It’s not going to be ideal for our home fans, and I’m sure the visitors would also rather play somewhere else.
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Oh I agree with you, I was just informing that schools don't get any tournament ticket revenue. I loved the neutral site days when there were multiple communities in the gym watching all the games.
 
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Philly_Cat

Well-known member
serpico said:
I hadn’t thought of that, but it really doesn’t change my objection. Our team is used to playing at nice, large sectional sites. If we get to host, our gym isn’t very big (or nice). It’s not going to be ideal for our home fans, and I’m sure the visitors would also rather play somewhere else.
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A packed, sold out high school gym for a playoff game is damn near the epitome of the high school experience. That experience, in my opinion, gets amplified in the smaller gyms. Home team playing in their home gym I think is an incredible place for a 1st and 2nd round game. Didn't get a ticket? Too bad, should have been faster to buy one.

Save the later round games for the large arena spectacle.
 
C

CGradADad

Active member
Some seem very surprised that they are using Maxpreps. I am told that the coaches are very surprised as well.

The NWO tested out Martins last year. They seemed to really like it. They recommended it to all of the coaches associations.

This is where the story gets a little tricky.

I was told the OHSBCA recommended to OHSAA to use Martin throughout the state. The state took a vote to use Martin and it passed. The whole state would have the same system. The coaches did not like max preps for all of its errors and non reported scores.

After getting the coaches association to approve a computer ranking system, OHSAA then took money from maxpreps to pick their system. The old “bait and switch.” The coaches are not happy.

Maxpreps then sent out several simulators of formulas they could use this year. They already had one in Martins. This is your typical OHSAA money grab after getting approval to do something else. If everything I have been told is correct, this is why people do not care for anything OHSAA.
 
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Ericles

Well-known member
CGradADad said:
Some seem very surprised that they are using Maxpreps. I am told that the coaches are very surprised as well.

The NWO tested out Martins last year. They seemed to really like it. They recommended it to all of the coaches associations.

This is where the story gets a little tricky.

I was told the OHSBCA recommended to OHSAA to use Martin throughout the state. The state took a vote to use Martin and it passed. The whole state would have the same system. The coaches did not like max preps for all of its errors and non reported scores.

After getting the coaches association to approve a computer ranking system, OHSAA then took money from maxpreps to pick their system. The old “bait and switch.” The coaches are not happy.

Maxpreps then sent out several simulators of formulas they could use this year. They already had one in Martins. This is your typical OHSAA money grab after getting approval to do something else. If everything I have been told is correct, this is why people do not care for anything OHSAA.
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I think there's a pretty good amount of truth in what you said. The Martin system was not without its faults, but it was simple enough for most people to understand and you at least knew what you were getting were getting into.
 
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CleveHoopFan08

Active member
Ericles said:
I think there's a pretty good amount of truth in what you said. The Martin system was not without its faults, but it was simple enough for most people to understand and you at least knew what you were getting were getting into.
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Not to mention they(Martins) collected most, if not all, of the results from various outlets. While its way to early to call obviously, I can see Max Preps being a disaster.
 
gcfqn

gcfqn

Active member
Interested to see if the Cols area coaches bother with Max Preps. Some did use Arbiter last year. Info is so sketchy around here it is ridiculous.
 
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C

CGradADad

Active member
I believe Athletic Directors are in charge of making sure the scores are correct. I think I read somewhere they have 72 hours to post the correct score. I would assume they will come to the agreement to have the home AD report the scores or some type of arrangement. Then the next time they have to post a score, they will double check all the game results.
 
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spirit454

Well-known member
419Jester said:
A playoff qualifier will make teams schedule weaker out of conference matchups. Maybe not as bad as football is but it will definitely make a team less likely to schedule a brutal out of conference schedule. More teams would duck good competition to protect their points. But out of that would come less meaningless games in the sectional semis.
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I doubt we ever see a playoff qualifier for basketball since they can almost play 3 games in a week. Its not hard to knock teams out and get to the regional level in a couple weeks. With football playing a single game every 7 days was the factor.
 
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