It’s Time for a Shot Clock

Average time of a possession is terribly flawed…fast breaks…turnovers …offensive rebounds skew the number….to get an accurate picture you would need to graph it and calculate the standard deviation…identify the outliers…or much more simply eliminate the outliers and average the time of possession in a half court set…my guess is 30 seconds…maybe 35…so a shot clock would not effect average half court possessions much…it would eliminate deliberately holding the ball longer to preserve a lead. The 2 games I saw in Ithica, NY were both final scores in the 50’s.
Exactly my only reasoning for a shot clock in HS @CDRam84, “it would eliminate deliberately holding the ball longer to preserve a lead.”

Obviously others disagree, but being down 10 with 3:30 left in a game should not automatically lead to a loss. That’s a lot of time left in a game.
 
I get both sides of it. But I don’t agree with a team being punished by a shot clock late in a game because they were able to build a lead and the other team was unable to stop them.

Further more, the major upsets would be a thing of the past. I don’t mean a 4 seed beating a 1. The 16 seed with 2 wins finds a way to slow the game down against the 1 seed and get the improbable win giving those kids and community something to talk about for years. A shot clock would never allow that to happen.
 
It is NOT higher scores…it is flow of the game. Like I stated: both high school games I saw with a shot clocked ended with scores in the 50’s. Should we eliminate the play clock in football so a team with the lead can simply refuse to snap the ball?
Well, that's not really a good companion. In football you can't play defense UNTIL the ball is snapped. In basketball....the team can always try to defend, steal, and foul to get the ball back. It's not similar in football.
 
No way I could watch a high school game with a 25-20 final…that is like watching paint dry or 4th grade rec…i would have used my entire bench to put them in the bonus in the first quarter…no team shoots 100% from the line…you want slow and boring? How about watching 40-50 free throws 🤣
Good news is you don't have to buy a ticket to go to the game or you can leave if you went.
 
Go guard the ball. Try to get a steal. Commit a foul.
Go guard the ball, or try to get a steal, OR grab a rebound as a shot goes up at the end of the shot clock.

That sounds like basketball to me on how to come back from 10 down with 3 minutes to go. Committing fouls with 3 minutes left in a game to get the ball back is ridiculous.
 
Exactly my only reasoning for a shot clock in HS @CDRam84, “it would eliminate deliberately holding the ball longer to preserve a lead.”

Obviously others disagree, but being down 10 with 3:30 left in a game should not automatically lead to a loss. That’s a lot of time left in a game.
Why can't you pressure the offense into a turnover or a 5 second count?
 
Why can't you pressure the offense into a turnover or a 5 second count?
Why can’t you pressure the ball and try for a 5 second count without fouling which in turn pressures your opponent into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock?
 
Good news is you don't have to buy a ticket to go to the game or you can leave if you went.
Oh…I have walked out on deliberately slow games…probably 3-4…Score is 14-10 at half I am out…I also walk out on blowouts…and now that I am familiar with the region after 22 years I don’t bother going to games I think won’t be competitive…life is too short to watch bad anything.
 
Go guard the ball, or try to get a steal, OR grab a rebound as a shot goes up at the end of the shot clock.

That sounds like basketball to me on how to come back from 10 down with 3 minutes to go. Committing fouls with 3 minutes left in a game to get the ball back is ridiculous.
Maybe play better defense and/or offense earlier in the game? That might work too.
 
Oh…I have walked out on deliberately slow games…probably 3-4…Score is 14-10 at half I am out…I also walk out on blowouts…and now that I am familiar with the region after 22 years I don’t bother going to games I think won’t be competitive…life is too short to watch bad anything.
Life is too short to go to any high school game unless you have a relative involved,
 
Oh…I have walked out on deliberately slow games…probably 3-4…Score is 14-10 at half I am out…I also walk out on blowouts…and now that I am familiar with the region after 22 years I don’t bother going to games I think won’t be competitive…life is too short to watch bad anything.
Sounds like you have a good strategy then.
 
Go guard the ball, or try to get a steal, OR grab a rebound as a shot goes up at the end of the shot clock.

That sounds like basketball to me on how to come back from 10 down with 3 minutes to go. Committing fouls with 3 minutes left in a game to get the ball back is ridiculous.
Maybe if kids (and coaches) would spend more time at the FT line rather than another 4ft 9in further back, it would discourage the accepted practice of fouling as a way to get the ball back without the opponent scoring. ;)
 
This discussion happens every year. And every year its the same thing. "We need a shot clock because of something that happens in a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of games."

If we are going to do a shot clock then I prefer the Lacrosse clock idea. The ref can start the clock if they feel there is no action to force action.
 
This discussion happens every year. And every year its the same thing. "We need a shot clock because of something that happens in a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of games."

If we are going to do a shot clock then I prefer the Lacrosse clock idea. The ref can start the clock if they feel there is no action to force action.
At first I thought this too, however what concerns me a bit is how antiquated the high school game is at the moment compared to college & the NBA. It's noticeable how much more football mirrors the modern college & NFL games compared to basketball. If a sport doesn't evolve it dies
 
At first I thought this too, however what concerns me a bit is how antiquated the high school game is at the moment compared to college & the NBA. It's noticeable how much more football mirrors the modern college & NFL games compared to basketball. If a sport doesn't evolve it dies
I'm not opposed to the game evolving but I'm not sure the shot clock is such an integral part of the game that without it the game will die
 
The lacrosse idea is interesting but maybe a little too interpretive for basketball…but still interesting. The elam ending is very fun to watch..forces teams to actually play…no fouling, no holding the ball. The stall became more effective when coaches like Bob Knight installed the one foot in the lane help side concept (so actually weak side is a match up zone)…back in the 70’s when a team tried to run 4 corners on us my coach would yell “STRAIGHT UP!”…which meant you followed your man everywhere….restroom, locker room, concession stand 🤣…the game was still slower but not ridiculous scores of 30-28…so I see the point folks are making about getting out and guarding. Two other points I would make are: a shot clock rewards good defense a little more and also rewards offensive efficiency….a team should be able to get up the floor and run thru the offense 4-5 times in 35 seconds..if you can’t get a decent shot after running thru 4-5 Iterations of the offense then your players are not screening well, cutting hard etc…my coach said any offense on earth will work if it is run sharply and quickly a d with purpose. Nowadays I see tons of bad screening both in the set, use and timing..I see lazy cutting and most of the guys on the floor couldn’t not come off a screen and rise up and make a shot from 12-15 feet! Ball handling and shooting 3’s ( didn’t have them in my day) are way better today…with a few exceptions post play has declined…rare to see a post player with a variety of finishes…they are out there but not as prevalent I guess because it isn’t as flashy in the 3 ball era…I think a clock would force coaches and players to be more efficient. I think I will see it in my lifetime (I am on the short view to 60)…
 
The lacrosse idea is interesting but maybe a little too interpretive for basketball…but still interesting. The elam ending is very fun to watch..forces teams to actually play…no fouling, no holding the ball. The stall became more effective when coaches like Bob Knight installed the one foot in the lane help side concept (so actually weak side is a match up zone)…back in the 70’s when a team tried to run 4 corners on us my coach would yell “STRAIGHT UP!”…which meant you followed your man everywhere….restroom, locker room, concession stand 🤣…the game was still slower but not ridiculous scores of 30-28…so I see the point folks are making about getting out and guarding. Two other points I would make are: a shot clock rewards good defense a little more and also rewards offensive efficiency….a team should be able to get up the floor and run thru the offense 4-5 times in 35 seconds..if you can’t get a decent shot after running thru 4-5 Iterations of the offense then your players are not screening well, cutting hard etc…my coach said any offense on earth will work if it is run sharply and quickly a d with purpose. Nowadays I see tons of bad screening both in the set, use and timing..I see lazy cutting and most of the guys on the floor couldn’t not come off a screen and rise up and make a shot from 12-15 feet! Ball handling and shooting 3’s ( didn’t have them in my day) are way better today…with a few exceptions post play has declined…rare to see a post player with a variety of finishes…they are out there but not as prevalent I guess because it isn’t as flashy in the 3 ball era…I think a clock would force coaches and players to be more efficient. I think I will see it in my lifetime (I am on the short view to 60)…
To some degree it kind of becomes the 6th defender. In a way I think it would allow coaches to just pack it in and wait for the other team to have to shoot. So while it may force quicker more decisive offense it would also allow for less aggressive defense, at least until the other team proves they can sink those deep shots.
 
At first I thought this too, however what concerns me a bit is how antiquated the high school game is at the moment compared to college & the NBA. It's noticeable how much more football mirrors the modern college & NFL games compared to basketball. If a sport doesn't evolve it dies
That's a poor take. The game adjusts as talent and skill increases. Antiquated is more of your lack of understanding of how to play the sport when 3 out of your 5 are skilled ball handlers. As the talent increases as you move up the ladder.of course things change. Baseball is an individual sport irrelevant to this. Football still has massive massive differences at the HS level ( veer, option, wingt) all based on talent and skills.
Why can’t you pressure the ball and try for a 5 second count without fouling which in turn pressures your opponent into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock?
Did I say you could not?
 
Obviously others disagree, but being down 10 with 3:30 left in a game should not automatically lead to a loss. That’s a lot of time left in a game.
Fair is fair - being up by 10 with 3:30 left should not automatically lead to a win. That's high school basketball! ;)

I think your point about stalling being bad for the game begs a fair question: Is it really a problem? How often does an Ohio high school game end like that? If the answer is "not often", then there really isn't problem, and therefore no "solution" is needed.

I'm not the biggest HS cage watcher, but I certainly don't see it happen that much today. Was definitely more common in the 1970's, and we considered to be integral to the sport back then.

IMO, four corners in high school is an occasional game situation/strategy that coaches and players need to be prepared for, just like when the opponent suddenly goes on a full-court press for the last few minutes, or when two 3-point shooters on the other team get hot and turn your 10-point lead into a 5-point deficit in 90 seconds. Anticipate it, have a play to run, and run the play. And if you have an opponent you know who likes to do it, then you better spend more time practicing to defeat it.

Short story, I'm not fan of shot clock at the HS level. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it does come to be in the next 10 or 15 years.

A few years ago I filled in as PA announcer for one school for a few games, they were always scrabbling to fill the scorer's table - snatching one student out of the hall to run the clock, and getting a girl to keep the scorebook at the same time she's taking pics of her boyfriend on the court AND yelling at the officials. Can't imagine them finding a third person to run that shot clock! 😁
 
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Grew up and played in a different state. Graduated in 1987. The next year, my alma mater struggled a bit and lost on the first night of the tournament by the glorious score of 10-7.
Missed a game-tying 3-point attempt at the buzzer.
From what I heard, lots of people at the game were upset about the tactic. Made the state news.
Coach figured the only chance they had to win was to stall and play very deliberate. Nearly worked.
 
Grew up and played in a different state. Graduated in 1987. The next year, my alma mater struggled a bit and lost on the first night of the tournament by the glorious score of 10-7.
Missed a game-tying 3-point attempt at the buzzer.
From what I heard, lots of people at the game were upset about the tactic. Made the state news.
Coach figured the only chance they had to win was to stall and play very deliberate. Nearly worked.
Yes, and I bet most people who were fans of the better team they nearly beat were wishing there was a shot clock.

I can think of many games over the years that were made enjoyable to watch because of deliberate play on the part of an overwhelmed team. My team was average my freshman year, and we played a team ranked high in the state and was 14-0 when we played them. They were 15-0 when they left that night but had to win it on a buzzer beater 24-22. We never held the ball but simply passed until the defense got out of position, sometimes that took a couple minutes. I still can not imagine fans would have rather seen the 70-40 blowout a shot clock would have given them that night?
 
To some degree it kind of becomes the 6th defender. In a way I think it would allow coaches to just pack it in and wait for the other team to have to shoot. So while it may force quicker more decisive offense it would also allow for less aggressive defense, at least until the other team proves they can sink those deep shots.
I'm in your camp on this view.

I shared a few years back that we did a tournament in AAU that used a shot clock. What I saw did not impress me whatsoever. Most teams with big players played a 2-3 or 3-2 zone packed back well inside the arch. Many threes taken, few open drives to the basket, and absolutely the shot clock was the defenders friend.

I know some find it amusing on here that others think a shot clock will make each possession similar to getting off the final shot of a quarter. Some of the teams we faced did exactly that. They sat out top dribbling the ball for 25 seconds (35 second clock) then started a simple motion offense against our zone designed to overwhelm one or two defenders with off the ball screens setting up an open three if the defender couldn't get over the top of the screen or a drive inside the lane if the screen failed to contain the defender. It was the same two or three players who could create off the dribble or rise and shoot over the top that were taking 95% of the shots.

The fact high school coaches do not have the ability to recruit players to fit such schemes will lead directly into fewer options a coach has to exploit the difference between his players and the opponents,
 
Why can’t you pressure the ball and try for a 5 second count without fouling which in turn pressures your opponent into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock?
Why can’t you pressure the ball and try for a 5 second count without fouling which in turn pressures your opponent into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock?
You have no idea what your talking about have you ever played the game. You must have been a ball hog and no need for a shot clock
 
I can't wait to see the end-of-quarter scenario (dribble-pass-dribble-dribble-dribble-chuck up a bad 3-pointer) repeated every 35 seconds.
 
I can't wait to see the end-of-quarter scenario (dribble-pass-dribble-dribble-dribble-chuck up a bad 3-pointer) repeated every 35 seconds.
Yep, high schools are not colleges that can recruit the player to fit the rule. I expect some pretty atrocious basketball at the small school level once this goes through. Deliberate offenses that make the defense work, and stay on the floor , will be a thing of the past. Every coach will be just 35 seconds maximum away from a timeout.
 
Exactly my only reasoning for a shot clock in HS @CDRam84, “it would eliminate deliberately holding the ball longer to preserve a lead.”

Obviously others disagree, but being down 10 with 3:30 left in a game should not automatically lead to a loss. That’s a lot of time left in a game.
It doesn’t have to though- you can coach for that, too
 
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