GMC 23-24

The GCL had a weak schedule this year for sure. I posted this list a couple weeks ago, but here is a rundown of non-conference opponents for this "powerhouse" league. This doesn't even include holiday tournaments where you could add 4-5 more schools that are D2-D3 equivalent. Of the GCL schools, Moe and X were probably the "strongest" - Elder and LaSalle were bad:

Australia Team (40 point win)
Gamble (come on)
Hughes (no chance)
NCC
Cooper
Roger Bacon
McNick
St Charles Prep
Connor
Mariemont (lol)
Wyoming
CHCA
Badin
Indian Hill
Cincy College Prep (lol)

I understand scheduling limitations, but this is pathetic for the best sports conference in the city. It's sandbagging 101. Go back a couple years, you can add:

Purcell
Shroder (lol)
NCH (lol)
Northwest (lol)
 
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Carl Rick said:
Two year contracts. Home and Home. After year 1, often discussion about continuing it or not. Most conferences have 12-16 league games. The GCL-S has 6 which makes their league easier to win but more work with scheduling.
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First off, I wasn't attacking Moeller for the way they scheduled. I was merely pointing out that the schedule was, in fact, garbage. They played one reasonable team out of conference and lost.

Second, even assuming they do the home and home contracts, which as you point out can be reconsidered year to year so no team is bound to it, that means of 16 games at least half would have come up last year. Looks like more actually did. Looking at the schedule, most of the non conference games were first year games this year. Moeller knew what they had and what those teams had.

With the exception of Princeton, SVSM and Centerville (all 3 had been on the schedule the year before) which of those 16 non conference games were even consider to be top level programs when they schedule them? They are Moeller. They could have schedule prep schools, flying to the Hoop, Kentucky and Indiana teams. So, let's not pretend it could not have been a much tougher schedule. It could have been. Still not my point, but it is absolutely true.
 
MTO80 said:
I agree with a little bit all comments on Moeller but I do not agree best lineup is Havens and Mason both in it. Maybe defensively but I have been at 80% of their games and they are much better with just one of them in. Offensively they are the same player . Neither one of them will hardly look at the basket and if Mahaffey or Kazanecki are cold then who is going to score ? I think at this point they are better with McBride instead of Mason. I do agree on Land , he still needs more strength to be successful.
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Havens is one of the best on-ball defenders in the city. He's a key element to their team, but agree, there are times when more offense is needed and they sub for him. That's fine. They can do that because they have the best built roster.

But in games where Moeller is in control, Havens is a weapon, for sure. He's relentless with his on-ball pressure.
 
DytnBballFan said:
First off, I wasn't attacking Moeller for the way they scheduled. I was merely pointing out that the schedule was, in fact, garbage. They played one reasonable team out of conference and lost.

Second, even assuming they do the home and home contracts, which as you point out can be reconsidered year to year so no team is bound to it, that means of 16 games at least half would have come up last year. Looks like more actually did. Looking at the schedule, most of the non conference games were first year games this year. Moeller knew what they had and what those teams had.

With the exception of Princeton, SVSM and Centerville (all 3 had been on the schedule the year before) which of those 16 non conference games were even consider to be top level programs when they schedule them? They are Moeller. They could have schedule prep schools, flying to the Hoop, Kentucky and Indiana teams. So, let's not pretend it could not have been a much tougher schedule. It could have been. Still not my point, but it is absolutely true.
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I personally think you're overdoing it with your point. In my opinion they shouldn't have scheduled Newport Central Catholic, Hughes, and Gamble. The rest of the schedule is fine.
 
DytnBballFan said:
First off, I wasn't attacking Moeller for the way they scheduled. I was merely pointing out that the schedule was, in fact, garbage. They played one reasonable team out of conference and lost.

Second, even assuming they do the home and home contracts, which as you point out can be reconsidered year to year so no team is bound to it, that means of 16 games at least half would have come up last year. Looks like more actually did. Looking at the schedule, most of the non conference games were first year games this year. Moeller knew what they had and what those teams had.

With the exception of Princeton, SVSM and Centerville (all 3 had been on the schedule the year before) which of those 16 non conference games were even consider to be top level programs when they schedule them? They are Moeller. They could have schedule prep schools, flying to the Hoop, Kentucky and Indiana teams. So, let's not pretend it could not have been a much tougher schedule. It could have been. Still not my point, but it is absolutely true.
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Moeller?? Just stating information about the GCL-S and scheduling. Not sure how you made any above leaps.
 
DytnBballFan said:
First off, I wasn't attacking Moeller for the way they scheduled. I was merely pointing out that the schedule was, in fact, garbage. They played one reasonable team out of conference and lost.

Second, even assuming they do the home and home contracts, which as you point out can be reconsidered year to year so no team is bound to it, that means of 16 games at least half would have come up last year. Looks like more actually did. Looking at the schedule, most of the non conference games were first year games this year. Moeller knew what they had and what those teams had.

With the exception of Princeton, SVSM and Centerville (all 3 had been on the schedule the year before) which of those 16 non conference games were even consider to be top level programs when they schedule them? They are Moeller. They could have schedule prep schools, flying to the Hoop, Kentucky and Indiana teams. So, let's not pretend it could not have been a much tougher schedule. It could have been. Still not my point, but it is absolutely true.
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Withrow and Mason were perfectly reasonable games to schedule, although neither team happened to be good this year. Moeller also won each of those by only 4 points. Turpin, Hughes, and Gamble were all part of multi-year agreements, although I don't think they should have ever scheduled Hughes or Gamble. Walnut Hills is a reasonable opponent that, again, just didn't happen to be good this year. They had no business scheduling that Australia team or playing in that Florida tournament, although I'm not sure how much control they had over the rest of that field.
 
DytnBballFan said:
This isn't college football. That simply isn't true. Non conference schedules are made at most one season in advance with lots of wiggle room. Administrators or prior relationships may dictate some but not all of an 18 game non conference schedule. However, I'm not blaming Moeller for the schedule just pointing out it was bad. Whatever the reason, doesn't matter. They played no one.
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Who from SWO had great schedules besides C-ville? It was basically impossible to have a tough schedule considering the parity. Moeller will be more than ready come tourney time.
 
JBaller said:
Withrow and Mason were perfectly reasonable games to schedule, although neither team happened to be good this year. Moeller also won each of those by only 4 points. Turpin, Hughes, and Gamble were all part of multi-year agreements, although I don't think they should have ever scheduled Hughes or Gamble. Walnut Hills is a reasonable opponent that, again, just didn't happen to be good this year. They had no business scheduling that Australia team or playing in that Florida tournament, although I'm not sure how much control they had over the rest of that field.
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Moe also schedule somes of those games with the intention of getting subs who rarely play minutes, as so all of the GCLS teams. Filling 16 game OOC schedules isn't easy as we all know. The one thing I don't get is why they wasted their time on the Florida trip.
 
JElder said:
Who from SWO had great schedules besides C-ville? It was basically impossible to have a tough schedule considering the parity. Moeller will be more than ready come tourney time.
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-Beavercreek played Hamilton, Lakota West, Alter, and St. X in the non-conference. Combined with the 14 GWOC games, that's a pretty good schedule.
-Wayne played Lutheran West, Trotwood, Elder, and tried to get some difficult games with Olentangy Liberty, C-J, and Lima Senior.
-Princeton played Moeller, Toledo Central Catholic, Great Crossing, and a very difficult tournament in Mississippi, which is pretty much as tough a schedule as you can get.
-Most of the GMC schools scheduled at least 2 quality non-conference opponents out of their 6 non-conference games, and when you combine that with the fact that there were 8 quality teams in the GMC this year, it made for very few breaks in the schedule.
-GWOC got a few more opportunities for some cupcakes with 8 non-league games, but GWOC had 6 quality teams out of 8, so fairly difficult all around.
-An open question as to whether Centerville played too difficult of a schedule. In their 15 games since Christmas, there has only been 2 "easy" games. Judging by how they played in the last two GWOC games, it seems like that very difficult schedule may have worn them out. I wonder if they would be a in a better spot to have played 2 cupcakes instead of LaLu and Moravian.
 
I knew when I said it this is the response I would get. Lot of Moeller apologists on here. Whatever the reason, the schedule was garbage. But they absolutely could have and should have made it tougher. Some schools struggle to schedule top teams. Moeller is not one of them. Centerville played three prep schools, Moeller none. Flying to the Hoop would have set them up, they didn't play. They went to Cleveland to play Mentor. Why not St Iggie or Garfield heights?
 
JBaller said:
-Beavercreek played Hamilton, Lakota West, Alter, and St. X in the non-conference. Combined with the 14 GWOC games, that's a pretty good schedule.
-Wayne played Lutheran West, Trotwood, Elder, and tried to get some difficult games with Olentangy Liberty, C-J, and Lima Senior.
-Princeton played Moeller, Toledo Central Catholic, Great Crossing, and a very difficult tournament in Mississippi, which is pretty much as tough a schedule as you can get.
-Most of the GMC schools scheduled at least 2 quality non-conference opponents out of their 6 non-conference games, and when you combine that with the fact that there were 8 quality teams in the GMC this year, it made for very few breaks in the schedule.
-GWOC got a few more opportunities for some cupcakes with 8 non-league games, but GWOC had 6 quality teams out of 8, so fairly difficult all around.
-An open question as to whether Centerville played too difficult of a schedule. In their 15 games since Christmas, there has only been 2 "easy" games. Judging by how they played in the last two GWOC games, it seems like that very difficult schedule may have worn them out. I wonder if they would be a in a better spot to have played 2 cupcakes instead of LaLu and Moravian.
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I think his point is that outside of Centerville, everyone in SWO played a similar schedule due to the fact that outside of Centerville and Moeller, the next 30 teams are all damn near the same in quality. So if the majority of your schedule is SWO teams, it's going to be that schedule.

Back to the original argument about Moeller, if you're not trying to travel all over God's green earth to find every prep school and Top 3 team in every state, you're going to see a schedule similar to what Moeller and the entire rest of SWO had. As I already stated, there's really only about 3 teams on Moeller's schedule that they should never schedule. The rest is a fine schedule, that just so happened to catch most of those schools in down years. It ends up being just an OK schedule that you can nit pick at if nitpicking is your thing.
 
JBaller said:
-Beavercreek played Hamilton, Lakota West, Alter, and St. X in the non-conference. Combined with the 14 GWOC games, that's a pretty good schedule.
-Wayne played Lutheran West, Trotwood, Elder, and tried to get some difficult games with Olentangy Liberty, C-J, and Lima Senior.
-Princeton played Moeller, Toledo Central Catholic, Great Crossing, and a very difficult tournament in Mississippi, which is pretty much as tough a schedule as you can get.
-Most of the GMC schools scheduled at least 2 quality non-conference opponents out of their 6 non-conference games, and when you combine that with the fact that there were 8 quality teams in the GMC this year, it made for very few breaks in the schedule.
-GWOC got a few more opportunities for some cupcakes with 8 non-league games, but GWOC had 6 quality teams out of 8, so fairly difficult all around.
-An open question as to whether Centerville played too difficult of a schedule. In their 15 games since Christmas, there has only been 2 "easy" games. Judging by how they played in the last two GWOC games, it seems like that very difficult schedule may have worn them out. I wonder if they would be a in a better spot to have played 2 cupcakes instead of LaLu and Moravian.
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What better "spot" could Centerville be in? They are the number one seed and won their conference. Think they are in the "spot" the expected to be. Moeller is in the same "spot" and everyone in here anoints them as the clear favorite. Maybe they are, but my point is they haven't proven it.
 
DytnBballFan said:
What better "spot" could Centerville be in? They are the number one seed and won their conference. Think they are in the "spot" the expected to be. Moeller is in the same "spot" and everyone in here anoints them as the clear favorite. Maybe they are, but my point is they haven't proven it.
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I think they're gassed and they are not playing their best basketball going into the tournament.
 
JBaller said:
I think they're gassed and they are not playing their best basketball going into the tournament.
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I am sure they are very concerned with what everyone on here thinks. Gassed they may be but they should not play a tough game for two weeks. Plenty of time to get healthy. As for not playing their best basketball, I agree but that's also the benefit of a tough schedule - being exposed before the tournament to hopefully correct the issue over those two weeks. Whether they do or not is a different issue but in the end that are in the exact same "spot" as Moeller.
 
DytnBballFan said:
I am sure they are very concerned with what everyone on here thinks. Gassed they may be but they should not play a tough game for two weeks. Plenty of time to get healthy. As for not playing their best basketball, I agree but that's also the benefit of a tough schedule - being exposed before the tournament to hopefully correct the issue over those two weeks. Whether they do or not is a different issue but in the end that are in the exact same "spot" as Moeller.
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Come on now. You can't be screaming from the high hills about what Moeller does, then get upset and pull the "I'm sure they care about what people on Yappi say" card when someone criticizes Centerville. Be consistent at least. If you want to have a conversation, lets have a conversation. If you just want to say want you want and not have anyone say anything back against it, then say that up front so everyone knows to not respond.
 
Philly_Cat said:
Come on now. You can't be screaming from the high hills about what Moeller does, then get upset and pull the "I'm sure they care about what people on Yappi say" card when someone criticizes Centerville. Be consistent at least. If you want to have a conversation, lets have a conversation. If you just want to say want you want and not have anyone say anything back against it, then say that up front so everyone knows to not respond.
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I am all for debate. My only objective was to point out how weak Moellers schedule was. Not because I don't like Moeller but because no one else seemed to notice. I knew my original post would get push back so I am going to push back on that. The idea that Moeller couldn't have, or shouldn't have, scheduled better is laughable. And to say that by scheduling so weak, they are in a better "spot" than Centerville just is not true. I played that card because that's the only place Moeller is in a better "spot". They are objectively in the exact same spot for the tournament.
 
DytnBballFan said:
I am all for debate. My only objective was to point out how weak Moellers schedule was. Not because I don't like Moeller but because no one else seemed to notice. I knew my original post would get push back so I am going to push back on that. The idea that Moeller couldn't have, or shouldn't have, scheduled better is laughable. And to say that by scheduling so weak, they are in a better "spot" than Centerville just is not true. I played that card because that's the only place Moeller is in a better "spot". They are objectively in the exact same spot for the tournament.
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I've literally said multiple times in this thread as well as other threads over the last month how weak the GCL schedules have been this year.

Terrible schedules for a top power conference in the city.
 
Doublehelix said:
I've literally said multiple times in this thread as well as other threads over the last month how weak the GCL schedules have been this year.

Terrible schedules for a top power conference in the city.
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If Playing Princeton,Centerville,Wyoming,Highlands,Cov Cath,St. Vincent-St. Mary,Lutheran East are considered playing a terrible schedule WTF are the GCL Schools supposed to do as far as Non Conference Scheduling?
 
Smarty2022 said:
If Playing Princeton,Centerville,Wyoming,Highlands,Cov Cath,St. Vincent-St. Mary,Lutheran East are considered playing a terrible schedule WTF are the GCL Schools supposed to do as far as Non Conference Scheduling?
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Yet you ignore the cupcake list that is 3x as long?

Cmon man - a couple cupcakes a year isn't bad, but all 4 GCL schedules are loaded with GCLN and D2 games. Elder played ONE GMC team that's not Oak Hills, who they're going to play every year anyway. They should be playing several GMC teams.
 
This list is embarassing for a league like the GCL:

Australia Team (40 point win)
Gamble (come on)
Hughes (no chance)
NCC
Cooper
Roger Bacon
McNick
St Charles Prep
Connor
Mariemont (lol)
Wyoming
CHCA
Badin
Indian Hill
Cincy College Prep (lol)

I understand scheduling limitations, but this is pathetic for the best sports conference in the city. It's sandbagging 101. Go back a couple years, you can add:

Purcell
Shroder (lol)
NCH (lol)
Northwest (lol)
 
Smarty2022 said:
If Playing Princeton,Centerville,Wyoming,Highlands,Cov Cath,St. Vincent-St. Mary,Lutheran East are considered playing a terrible schedule WTF are the GCL Schools supposed to do as far as Non Conference Scheduling?
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Are you combining their schedules? None of them played all those teams did they?
 
Individually, there is no GCL-S schedule that is overall terrible. When you pool Gamble, Indian Hill, etc together as GCL-S non-con opponents, only then does it serve the argument.

Cooper (KY) is 19-8. I saw them take Delaware Hayes with two D1 prospects to overtime over at Mason back in November. They don't belong in that list.
 
oxat622 said:
Individually, there is no GCL-S schedule that is overall terrible. When you pool Gamble, Indian Hill, etc together as GCL-S non-con opponents, only then does it serve the argument.

Cooper (KY) is 19-8. I saw them take Delaware Hayes with two D1 prospects to overtime over at Mason back in November. They don't belong in that list.
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Yes, and Cooper actually beat X.
 
The Wizard of DVH said:
Wayne had a Top 5 Strength of Schedule in D1 according Martin's RPI...
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What I'm looking at on Martin as them at #17 in D1. Very good nonetheless.

#3 Centerville
#6 Springfield
#8 St. X
#9 LaSalle
#11 Elder
#13 Lakota East
#14 Fairmont
#15 Mason
#17 Wayne
#62 Moeller (lowest in GCL-S)
#68 Springboro (lowest in GWOC)
#95 Oak Hills (lowest in GMC)
#126 West Clermont (lowest in ECC)
#187 Goshen (lowest in Southwest Ohio)
 
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