mostchilly
Well-known member
I seen Dorian Williams in the stat column for 2 points. Was that an agreement with the coaches to allow him to get a bucket for the season?
GMC 23-24
- Thread starter Rock07
- Start date
Senior night. Must have been the case with 2 pts 0 minutes.
oxat622
Well-known member
Yes. I saw their Facebook story. Princeton "won" the jump, gave to Dorian for an uncontested dunk. Like you said, the points appear to have counted, and in a five point final margin, looks like that was consequential. I saw he reopened his football recruitment. Do you know if Vandy backed off?
mostchilly
Well-known member
Not sure.
I would assume each team got a basket at the beginning of the game. And yes, Vandy pulled the offer a month or two ago.
Middletown and Sycamore have the best draws. I would actually say both are favorites to win their sectionals. Hard to see Lakota West/Princeton winner beating Elder, although I would like their chances against almost anyone else. If Hamilton can actually beat Fairfield, I think they matchup well with X. I think Oak Hills will beat Aiken, then they’ll have a shot against Sycamore. None of the Dayton teams are scary, so if any GMC teams get to the district round, I like their chances.
The Wizard of DVH
Active member
None of the GMC teams are scary either!!! LOL
Philly_Cat
Well-known member
Touche
It’s weird, but Fairfield is probably a tougher game for them than X because of history/proximity/rivalry.
Also, Elder, Sycamore, and Middletown are all tremendous defensively. Nobody gives Elder credit for their defense.
Doublehelix
Well-known member
That's because when they play a top caliber team, which isn't very often, it's not that great. Of course it looks great playing mostly GCLN and D2 teams.
Elder has a good defense because of their physicality. The allowance of an ultra-physical game makes it look good. Honestly, it's out of necessity. But Moeller's defense is elite because they have the length and athleticism to make it elite. Huge difference from Elder.
Moeller has the best defense in the city.
DytnBballFan
Active member
Ok let me be the first to say what will inevitably get a world of backlash but Moeller may be elite but their schedule was not. It's hard to tell how good they are. Neither Elder nor St X have any elite players. I would argue the only team they played with elite level players, beat them. Sorry but those are facts. It was a trash schedule. Maybe they are great and win state but they are not tested and it is not a given.
The defense is not elite. It has never had to face an elite offense. Centerville scored at will and they struggle to score on Fairmont. I'm not a Cincy guy so maybe I can bring a bit of perspective or you will all think I'm nuts but check the schedule. It's bad
The defense is not elite. It has never had to face an elite offense. Centerville scored at will and they struggle to score on Fairmont. I'm not a Cincy guy so maybe I can bring a bit of perspective or you will all think I'm nuts but check the schedule. It's bad
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Doublehelix
Well-known member
I don't disagree about the schedules, they were very weak in the GCL this year. And agree on Elder and X overall.
But Moe passes the eye test. They might lose before the Final 4, but they are for sure the best constructed roster in Cincinnati.
DytnBballFan
Active member
Feels like the only eye test they pass is having Moeller on the front of their jersey. Watching them play, I agree they look good but I prefer teams that are tested. I also just find it odd that so many shots are taken at other schools for their schedule but Moellers is worse
Doublehelix
Well-known member
Fair points.
The GCL has a HUGE advantage in manipulating the seeding ranks because they only play 6 league games. They can fill their out of league schedules with cupcakes to ensure a top 3 seed every year, because the RPI formula doesn't care who you play, only the opponent's winning percentages. Unless OHSAA changes this, you can be sure they are going to continue this schedule sand-bagging to ensure they get top seed treatment for the draw. With Elder potentially moving to D2, it will probably even get worse for them, as they will now schedule even more D2 and D3 teams.
Compare that with most other leagues than have 10+ teams in their leagues and it's a grind just to play the league schedule. They have FAR less opportunity to dictate their out of league schedules to play the RPI game. You can pretty much pencil in 3 GCL teams as top 5 seeds from now on under the current rules, and you're not even sure how good they are at that point. More private school bias.
Contrast that to Centerville, who will play anyone, anywhere. I guess we will see if those two meet in the Regional.
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Moeller is very good defensively because of their length and athleticism, but I don't think they play as good of defense as they could given that length and athleticism, and this is far from Kremer's best defensive team. They are elite offensively though, shooting 51%. Centerville is very average defensively (45.5% FG given up) but make up for it by being pretty good offensively (47.7% FG, 36.7% 3FG). None of the other GWOC schools (don't have defensive stats posted outside Centerville), with maybe the exception of Wayne, are even remotely good defensively but they can all somewhat score pretty well.
The Cincinnati teams outside of Moeller and Winton Woods are very much the opposite. Sycamore is elite defensively (38.5% FG given up) because they have the single best defensive player in the state in Burgess and are a great rebounding team, but they really struggle on offense (47.1% FG, but 28.8% 3FG and 13.1 TOPG). Hamilton is very good defensively (42.1% FG given up), also having a good shotblocker in Holden, but, again they also struggle on offense (43.2% FG). Middletown is similar (43.9% FG, 41.7% FG given up) as well. Lakota West is the one team in the GMC with a bit of balance (49.6% FG, 43.3% FG given up) on both ends of the floor.
Elder actually is held back more by their offense (44.6% FG, which is ok; but 51, 34, 28, 36 pts scored in their losses) than their defense. GCL website doesn't have defensive stats, but I would bet Elder is holding teams to around 40% shooting. Same with X. They are only shooting 42.3% on the year, and I would guess they are giving up in the low-40s defensively. Their efficiency doesn't look great as 9 of their 16 wins are by single digits.
DytnBballFan
Active member
I guess my point would be Moellers stats dont mean much because they don't play anyone. Wayne and Centerville both had much tougher schedules so it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
Moeller and X played pretty good Non League Schedules this season imo.
Moeller didn’t play a tough non-league schedule at all. They had about 10 cupcakes out of the 16 games, and that’s not counting Mason (7-15) or St. Vincent-St. Mary (10-12). They played decently tough games against Highlands (16-12), Princeton (12-10), and Mentor (13-7), and their only real difficult game was at Centerville, which they lost. Now, everyone still thinks Moeller is really good because they dominated the GCL-S this year, but to say they played a tough non-league schedule is laughable. Just comparing them to X, Mason was probably Moeller’s 6th toughest non-league game whereas it was probably X’s 11th toughest.
Philly_Cat
Well-known member
You just said the only eye test they pass is having Moeller on their jersey and IMMEDIATELY followed that up by saying they passed your own eye test of how they play.
I'm not even trying to argue about their schedule. I'm just saying that what you just posted is hilarious lol
DytnBballFan
Active member
Fair response but my point was they look good because their schedule is so bad.
PeterDragon
1st Team All Yappi
Moeller can play a lineup of all 6'5 or taller at once if they so choose. Most physical and athletic Moeller team I've seen in some years. Talk about depth. They are legit.
The Wizard of DVH
Active member
Playing 6'5 or taller doesn't make that lineup good though...
Correct. Their best lineup has Havens and Mason in it to go with Kazanecki, Mahaffey, and George. I guess it is kind of scary that McBride and Land aren't in their best 5, but they're not.
I agree with a little bit all comments on Moeller but I do not agree best lineup is Havens and Mason both in it. Maybe defensively but I have been at 80% of their games and they are much better with just one of them in. Offensively they are the same player . Neither one of them will hardly look at the basket and if Mahaffey or Kazanecki are cold then who is going to score ? I think at this point they are better with McBride instead of Mason. I do agree on Land , he still needs more strength to be successful.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
All the Teams You Calling cupcakes have had pretty solid Programs over the yrs. Moeller Schedule at least a couple yrs in advance. Them and X made an honest attempt to Play solid Non League Schedules imo.
DytnBballFan
Active member
This isn't college football. That simply isn't true. Non conference schedules are made at most one season in advance with lots of wiggle room. Administrators or prior relationships may dictate some but not all of an 18 game non conference schedule. However, I'm not blaming Moeller for the schedule just pointing out it was bad. Whatever the reason, doesn't matter. They played no one.