Division Expansions

 
I will believe it when I see it from OHSAA. It would have been convenient and easy to do all sports simultaneously in the spring.
 
Absolutely *$)T#$Y_*F# ridiculous! Batavia & Badin with over a THOUSAND less boys now have to compete against Mason! OHSAA is NOT working in the best interests of student-athletes.
 
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JAVMAN83 said:
Absolutely *$)T#$Y_*F# ridiculous! Batavia & Badin with over a THOUSAND less boys now have to compete against Mason! OHSAA is NOT working in the best interests of student-athletes.
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True. There is no reason the divisions have to have equal numbers.
 
Nearly 1100 fewer boys… an egregious injustice being done by OHSAA because they simply DO NOT CARE about the disparity in this sport. It is not a difficult assignment so negligence has come into play.
 
A far more equitable system would be not to divide into equal pools of the # of schools, but into equal pools of the # of STUDENTS in a pool. OHSAA has it back assward.
 
JAVMAN83 said:
A far more equitable system would be not to divide into equal pools of the # of schools, but into equal pools of the # of STUDENTS in a pool. OHSAA has it back assward.
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The downside to that is if you make D1 have only 30 schools the other two divisions are going to have a whole heck of a lot more schools.
 
yj_runfan said:
The downside to that is if you make D1 have only 30 schools the other two divisions are going to have a whole heck of a lot more schools.
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I'm not arguing for staying with 3 divisions. Should be at least 5 in a state the size of Ohio.

I'm doing a mini-project this week to seek out a better distribution based on OHSAA's database. Will get back with you all later this week.
 
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JAVMAN83 said:
I'm not arguing for staying with 3 divisions. Should be at least 5 in a state the size of Ohio.

I'm doing a mini-project this week to seek out a better distribution based on OHSAA's database. Will get back with you all later this week.
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Very Simple. Do the divisions just like they do now and then divide D1 into two divisions. D1. 16.66% D2. 16.66%. D3, 33.33%, D4. 33.33%
 
psycho_dad said:
Very Simple. Do the divisions just like they do now and then divide D1 into two divisions. D1. 16.66% D2. 16.66%. D3, 33.33%, D4. 33.33%
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What would the population difference be in the new D1? Would we just end up with a new group complaining about the size difference? How much difference between the top and bottom of D1 will people accept?
 
yj_runfan said:
What would the population difference be in the new D1? Would we just end up with a new group complaining about the size difference? How much difference between the top and bottom of D1 will people accept?
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That really is the question. If you take the first 60 schools by enrollment you have Mason with 1335 at the top and Sycamore with 631 at the bottom. If you go to 72 its Euclid with 591. If you go to 80 its Troy with 577. 100 is Eastlake North with 505. (I used the boys numbers).
 
Why not go with the 6 division proposal in this manner. Split division 1 into 2 divisions and spread the remainder across the other 4.
The reason I say 6 is that you do not have to add any district or regional meets. You can run the same amount of meets as qualifiers and you are really just adding a little time to each meet by running 2 divisions at each. No extra officials or meet sites needed.
Example:
D1 and D2 at the original d1 meet running in order but by the division
4x800 girls d1
4x800 girls d2
4x800 boys d1
4x800 boys d2
100mh girls d1 heats 1-3
100mh girls d2 heats 1-3
110mh boys d1 heats 1-3
110mh boys d2 heats 1-3
100m girls d1 heat 1-3
100m girls d2 heat 1-3
100m boys d1 heat 1-3
100m boys d2 heat 1-3

In reality you are adding 2 extra heats of 4x800 and maybe a few heats in sprints (finals day will have extra distance races but it is a quicker day anyways). You will have the same amount of teams at each district and regional since the divisions will be less schools in each division.
The state meet would most likely need to go to 3 days but we just did that so it can be done.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
That really is the question. If you take the first 60 schools by enrollment you have Mason with 1335 at the top and Sycamore with 631 at the bottom. If you go to 72 its Euclid with 591. If you go to 80 its Troy with 577. 100 is Eastlake North with 505. (I used the boys numbers).
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Thanks for looking up the numbers. They illustrate my suspicion. Even limiting D1 to 60 schools the top is is still more than double the bottom school. It won’t settle the complaint. There just aren’t that many schools over 1000 boys. D1 would have to be a very small number of schools. They could all just go right to the state meet.
 
yj_runfan said:
Thanks for looking up the numbers. They illustrate my suspicion. Even limiting D1 to 60 schools the top is is still more than double the bottom school. It won’t settle the complaint. There just aren’t that many schools over 1000 boys. D1 would have to be a very small number of schools. They could all just go right to the state meet.
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8 Boys schools and 4 girls schools over 1k. (2 additional girls schools have 990 or more)
 
yj_runfan said:
Thanks for looking up the numbers. They illustrate my suspicion. Even limiting D1 to 60 schools the top is is still more than double the bottom school. It won’t settle the complaint. There just aren’t that many schools over 1000 boys. D1 would have to be a very small number of schools. They could all just go right to the state meet.
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I understand the complaint but at that point, in my opinion, it just doesn't matter. Being half the size is better than being a third the size. A school with around 600 boys/girls can definitely with the handful of 1k+ schools. It has been happening year after year. It's the schools that are 1/3 the size or less that don't have a chance.

If you think the D1 disparity is bad, just look at D3. Biggest school is 143, There are dozens of schools of schools less than half the size. The smallest being 33. Not to mention the schools that are even smaller but only take a couple kids to districts.
 
KingHorn419 said:
I understand the complaint but at that point, in my opinion, it just doesn't matter. Being half the size is better than being a third the size. A school with around 600 boys/girls can definitely with the handful of 1k+ schools. It has been happening year after year. It's the schools that are 1/3 the size or less that don't have a chance.

If you think the D1 disparity is bad, just look at D3. Biggest school is 143, There are dozens of schools of schools less than half the size. The smallest being 33. Not to mention the schools that are even smaller but only take a couple kids to districts.
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I certainly agree. Those handful of huge schools are not dominating D1 as a group. There’s no plan possible where teams are going to be happy going up against a mega school and there’s not much chance for a school with 33 boys in any plan.
 
Here is the way I would divide up the teams if there was a 4th division added. I understand that there is zero chance OHSAA would ever do this.

D1 - 15%
D2 - 20%
D3 - 30%
D4 - 35%
 
CC Track Fan said:
Here is the way I would divide up the teams if there was a 4th division added. I understand that there is zero chance OHSAA would ever do this.

D1 - 15%
D2 - 20%
D3 - 30%
D4 - 35%
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If we use every school in the enrollment numbers, there are 804 boys schools and 807 Girls schools. I did some rounding.

Boys Schools per division:
D1-121
D2-161
D3- 241
D4- 281

Girls Schools per division:
D1-121
D2-161
D3-242
D4-283
 

Below is copied from the OHSAA web page. The first statement, 'tournament standards in order for competition to be fair and equitable.'​

This is the starting place for OATCCC to define fair and equitable for OHSAA.​

​

The OHSAA is Committed To...​

  • Establishing and regulating regular season and tournament standards in order for competition to be fair and equitable.
  • Administering exceptional interscholastic athletics tournaments.
  • Promoting that interscholastic athletics participation complements a student’s educational experience.
  • Providing unparalleled leadership and customer service to our various constituents that is objective, responsive and inclusive.
  • Providing rulings that are swift, fair, consistent and impartial.
  • Operating with openness and demonstrating fiscal accountability.
  • Honoring our tradition of excellence, which has served our member schools for the past 100-plus years.
  • Honoring our ultimate purpose, which is to promote lifetime values, good citizenship, academic success, ethics and fair play in safe and sporting environments.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
If we use every school in the enrollment numbers, there are 804 boys schools and 807 Girls schools. I did some rounding.

Boys Schools per division:
D1-121
D2-161
D3- 241
D4- 281

Girls Schools per division:
D1-121
D2-161
D3-242
D4-283
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If use the number of schools with track team per OSHAA definition (695,649) here is the breakdown.
Boys Schools per division:
D1-104
D2-139
D3- 209
D4- 243

Girls Schools per division:
D1-97
D2-130
D3-195
D4-227
 
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