Ask The Ump?

Ericles

Active member
Could the umpire(s) have called the runner out independent of an appeal? Could the runner have been called out for running out of the base line?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Could the umpire(s) have called the runner out independent of an appeal? Could the runner have been called out for running out of the base line?
No. If that were the case, then every runner would be called out when they round a base in an attempt to advance to the next base.

Running out of the base paths involves the defense making an attempt to put a runner out.
 

umpire16

Active member
I just saw the video, R2 definitely did not touch third and based on HPU standing there long after run scored, it was obvious he saw it and was waiting for a possible appeal.
That would have been a heck of a money call if they had appealed it.

Hell yeah, money call. I talked to one of them after the game and they all knew what was going on. Game smarts are what set a state finals guy above the rest.
 

umpire16

Active member
Could the umpire(s) have called the runner out independent of an appeal? Could the runner have been called out for running out of the base line?
Also there was no play being made on R2 so you cannot call this. It really only applies when there is a chance at a play. Like AS12 said, every batter rounding first on a clean hit would be out then.
 

Thavoice

Well-known member
I thought this was preposterous but I thought I'd ask the experts first....

Coach of the 16U team told the players that the ohsaa is or will soon be instructing umpires to call pitches 2 baseballs off the plate as strikes.

Truth....or fiction?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I thought this was preposterous but I thought I'd ask the experts first....

Coach of the 16U team told the players that the ohsaa is or will soon be instructing umpires to call pitches 2 baseballs off the plate as strikes.

Truth....or fiction?
Coach of 16U team......

There's your answer ;)
 

*67

Well-known member
I just saw the video, R2 definitely did not touch third and based on HPU standing there long after run scored, it was obvious he saw it and was waiting for a possible appeal.

Hell yeah, money call. I talked to one of them after the game and they all knew what was going on. Game smarts are what set a state finals guy above the rest.

darn near exact situation happened in Wisconsin over the weekend
 

*67

Well-known member
2 outs. 2-2 count. first base open. batter swings at pitch that hits him.

whats the correct call?
 

bucksman

Moderator
Out on the catch by F3.
The next out is the tag of the runner (R2) going from second to third
The subsequent "out" is stepping on third base for the runner (R3) having left early and never returning.

In my review of the rule book for NFHS, it seems that this falls under 8-2-6 (i), which is fourth out appeal. I think if the defense was to properly appeal that the runner left third early, they could get the "fourth out" to nullify the run. However, the defense has to properly appeal this as the third out of the inning is the tag of R2.

If F5 had stepped on 3B before tagging R2, then it is obviously no run w/o appeal necessary.
 

umpire16

Active member
You left out Elite,LOL
Ha ha ha ha ha my mistake.
I had one of these super elite grandmaster teams yesterday. Whenever I have games with them I always, always, always, verify the rules code we’re playing before the game. They said high school.

Seven innings, two ejections, and 13 runs given up later, the game ended.

The first person that got tossed was the head coach of the grand elite all star team who told us that despite what we thought, the 3rd to 1st move was a balk in high school rules. Prolonged argument involving his use of profanity.

The second was the assistant coach who took over who threw his hat to the ground at my partner after a ground rule double (we were on turf) with a runner on first. He argued that the runner should have scored vs placed at third because he would’ve scored had the ball not been a ground rule double. It’s not two bases for other runners just the batter, he argued and told us it was our judgment as to where he went. He told us “I’m tired of Umpire‘s getting this one wrong.” Yeah buddy here’s the thing that’s the rule in every code. He also tried to tell us that he’s been a scout for the Reds for 25 years and that no Umpire knew what they were doing ever.

There were lots of other things, it was definitely the weirdest game I’ve ever worked I think in 25 years.
 

Voice

Well-known member
Ha ha ha ha ha my mistake.
I had one of these super elite grandmaster teams yesterday. Whenever I have games with them I always, always, always, verify the rules code we’re playing before the game. They said high school.

Seven innings, two ejections, and 13 runs given up later, the game ended.

The first person that got tossed was the head coach of the grand elite all star team who told us that despite what we thought, the 3rd to 1st move was a balk in high school rules. Prolonged argument involving his use of profanity.

The second was the assistant coach who took over who threw his hat to the ground at my partner after a ground rule double (we were on turf) with a runner on first. He argued that the runner should have scored vs placed at third because he would’ve scored had the ball not been a ground rule double. It’s not two bases for other runners just the batter, he argued and told us it was our judgment as to where he went. He told us “I’m tired of Umpire‘s getting this one wrong.” Yeah buddy here’s the thing that’s the rule in every code. He also tried to tell us that he’s been a scout for the Reds for 25 years and that no Umpire knew what they were doing ever.

There were lots of other things, it was definitely the weirdest game I’ve ever worked I think in 25 years.
Just another day at the office!
 

Thavoice

Well-known member
Allsports: While not an umpire question..I have one I bet you havent dealt with before.
Had a game postponed because 4-5 players were stuck in an elevator for 3 hours and were to miss the game....
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Allsports: While not an umpire question..I have one I bet you havent dealt with before.
Had a game postponed because 4-5 players were stuck in an elevator for 3 hours and were to miss the game....
Had one with a player stuck with his family, but was able to make it in the 4th.... Never a PPD because of it.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
I'm assuming that this was the homeplate umpire's call but the 3rd base umpire made a mistake by calling dead ball. IMO, it should have been overruled as an umpire error and position the runners based on where they believe they would have gotten if not for the mistaken time signal by the 3rd base ump. LF looks to have slowed up based on the erroneous foul signal. Stinks to see a big call like this made a critical point...

 

CoachHoversten

Well-known member
This is BU call. If the ball travels past front edge of bag, it’s BU call.

This should have been dead ball, and if rule supports changing call, then fine, but it should not been left live.

i know in NCAA this can not be overturned bc ball did not first touch ground beyond the third baseman, but im not sure if LL uses NFHS or OBR
 

AllSports12

Moderator
The Little League Rule states.....

If different decisions should be made one one play by different umpires, the Umpire-in-Chief shall call the umpires into consultation with no manager or player present. After consultation the Umpire-in Chief shall which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in the best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made.

Knowing that.... some things to consider.....

- The "consultation" was the replay.
- The BU was in the grass in foul territory when the ball passed 3rd base
- If the PU cedes the call to U3 (as he should have) you would most likely have a review. That review would still result in a fair ball and a judgment on whether or not R1 would have scored on the play (another hornet's nest ;) )
 

CoachHoversten

Well-known member
Interesting, is that a LL specific rule ? So far as I know, all codes (HS, NCAA, OBR) restrict what can be overturned in regards to foul to fair.

this reads like LL has no restriction?
 

fortfan

Well-known member
I thought this was preposterous but I thought I'd ask the experts first....

Coach of the 16U team told the players that the ohsaa is or will soon be instructing umpires to call pitches 2 baseballs off the plate as strikes.

Truth....or fiction?
We have a lot of kids that complain that umps already are calling that a strike. (Umpires- the players are wrong and we tell them that)
 
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