Ask The Ump?

AllSports12

Moderator
2010 NFHS Rule Interpretations

SITUATION 7:
B1 lays down a bunt that is fielded by F2 in fair territory a few feet in front of home plate. As B1 is 60 feet from home base, he is running outside the running lane with one foot completely in fair ground and not touching the lines of the running lane. F2 fields the ball and (a) attempts to throw to first but throws high into right field as he tries not to hit B1, or (b) does not attempt a throw.

RULING: B1 is required to be in the running lane the last 45 feet to first base when the ball is fielded and thrown from an area behind him. In (a), this is interference and B1 is out and the ball is declared dead. In (b), since there was no throw, there is no interference. F2 is not required to hit B1 to demonstrate that B1 is out of the running lane, but a throw must be made for the interference to be declared. (8-4-1g)
 

umpire16

Active member
I agree with you, I too was speaking about arguing/disputing calls.

Early in my college umpiring career, someone told me “those d3 and d2 assistants might be the head coach at one of your games down the road, and if they remember you as professional and approachable, it can only benefit you”
Agree same. I am cordial to all coaches in standard convos that I keep brief. But like AS12 said they have almost zero rope with me for arguments. Especially assistants that claim to be umpires ;)
 

umpire16

Active member
Under NFHS Rules, there if there is no throw, there is no interference.

There's an official interpretation from 10-12 years ago that specifically states that a throw must be made in order for RLI to be declared.....

I'll dig it up when I have access to my laptop.
It is in an email from the baseball DOD this year too if my memory serves me correctly and was in the local meeting video.
 

TheTaxMan

Member
AllSports12....Thank you!

We had this play the other night. Our player apparently ran inside the baseline, but the ball was hit to the SS and our player was thrown out easily. The HP umpire just happened to mention to our Coach: "Hey, your kid was way inside the baseline, tell him to watch it. I could have called him out just for running inside of the baseline". Coach responded "Well, but not if it didn't affect the play, right?" HP says: "No it was a point of emphasis this year. It wouldn't matter if the Catcher fielded it and turned to the backstop and threw the ball that way, I could still call a runner out for running inside the baseline" We thought it was weird, and just wanted to confirm we hadn't missed a rule change.
 

CoachHoversten

Well-known member
AllSports12....Thank you!

We had this play the other night. Our player apparently ran inside the baseline, but the ball was hit to the SS and our player was thrown out easily. The HP umpire just happened to mention to our Coach: "Hey, your kid was way inside the baseline, tell him to watch it. I could have called him out just for running inside of the baseline". Coach responded "Well, but not if it didn't affect the play, right?" HP says: "No it was a point of emphasis this year. It wouldn't matter if the Catcher fielded it and turned to the backstop and threw the ball that way, I could still call a runner out for running inside the baseline" We thought it was weird, and just wanted to confirm we hadn't missed a rule change.
It is unusual and doesn’t happen often, but it is possible to have RLI on a ball hit to SS or 3B. Consider a throw by F5/6 that is to the first baseman’s left but reachable.

F3 stretches to catch ball and ball hits runner, or glove hits runner, which would not happen if runner was running in the lane. Was runner out of lane? Yes. By doing so, did he hinder the play? Yes. RLI

Again, rare, but can happen
 

Dragon72

Active member
A buddy of mine (if officials or umpires actually had friends) has this play. Ground ball hit to first baseball. He bobbles it and it rolls several feet away. Batter/Runner running hard to first base. Runner gets there before fielder. Collision between runner and fielder. The first baseman's coach wants the batter/runner declared out for failing to avoid contact with fielder. Is the coach correct?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
A buddy of mine (if officials or umpires actually had friends) has this play. Ground ball hit to first baseball. He bobbles it and it rolls several feet away. Batter/Runner running hard to first base. Runner gets there before fielder. Collision between runner and fielder. The first baseman's coach wants the batter/runner declared out for failing to avoid contact with fielder. Is the coach correct?
Would be an extremely rare occasion to have interference on the runner here...... Where in relation to the base path did this collision take place?
 

CoachHoversten

Well-known member
A buddy of mine (if officials or umpires actually had friends) has this play. Ground ball hit to first baseball. He bobbles it and it rolls several feet away. Batter/Runner running hard to first base. Runner gets there before fielder. Collision between runner and fielder. The first baseman's coach wants the batter/runner declared out for failing to avoid contact with fielder. Is the coach correct?
No, you’re only getting the batter-runner if he deviated his path to initiate contact. A runner must avoid a fielder who is fielding the batted ball, not avoid touching first bc a fielder is racing him to it
 

bucksman

Moderator
A buddy of mine (if officials or umpires actually had friends) has this play. Ground ball hit to first baseball. He bobbles it and it rolls several feet away. Batter/Runner running hard to first base. Runner gets there before fielder. Collision between runner and fielder. The first baseman's coach wants the batter/runner declared out for failing to avoid contact with fielder. Is the coach correct?
Fielder in a broad sense does not have protection once they have made a play on the ball in baseball. Of course if the runner goes out of his way to contact/impede the fielder, then it's on the runner. However, in the play as described, the first baseman is not "protected" once he has made an initial fielding play on the ball.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
It is unusual and doesn’t happen often, but it is possible to have RLI on a ball hit to SS or 3B. Consider a throw by F5/6 that is to the first baseman’s left but reachable.

F3 stretches to catch ball and ball hits runner, or glove hits runner, which would not happen if runner was running in the lane. Was runner out of lane? Yes. By doing so, did he hinder the play? Yes. RLI

Again, rare, but can happen
No, this is not RLI. The throw must come from behind the runner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bb9
ASK THE UMP ?! ...... IF WE COULD FIND ONE!

Lack of Umpires have cancelled multiple games this season. Anyone else seeing this issue?

I know a (SWD4) team has played 4 games with 1 ump only and then FINALLY get nice weather to play and cancel a Conference game due to neither softball or baseball having umpires.

Is it time to do the Indiana style with only 2 games per week? Seems like a good bet since Ohio can't find officials.
 

CoachHoversten

Well-known member
ASK THE UMP ?! ...... IF WE COULD FIND ONE!

Lack of Umpires have cancelled multiple games this season. Anyone else seeing this issue?

I know a (SWD4) team has played 4 games with 1 ump only and then FINALLY get nice weather to play and cancel a Conference game due to neither softball or baseball having umpires.

Is it time to do the Indiana style with only 2 games per week? Seems like a good bet since Ohio can't find officials.
My son (freshman) has had 2 games cancelled for no umpire. May not sound like a ton but they’ve had about 746 cancelled due to weather/cold, so it’s 2 out of about 8 games, not 2 out of 30
 

CoachHoversten

Well-known member
I hope I don’t upset AS12, bc this isn’t a question, but here is a thought/idea for people who love baseball and care about not having games cancelled for no umpire…thank an umpire when they are done.

About a week ago, my sons freshman game had a kid, literally a kid (he is in HS) working solo. My son also umpires and plays catcher so he always talks to the umps, I overheard this umpire say it was his first year.

Throughout the game some parents yelled about a ball/strike, one tag play at second he called out, kid was safe (my sons team) and a parent, who knows I umpire, asked me “what do you think” and I said “I’m glad he’s here” and wouldn’t entertain saying he missed it, we have had 2 games cancelled for no umpire.

Later, he called a catch and carry against us (our team in field), was a terrific call. Fans went nuts, “that’s BS”, that’s not a rule, “how come in MLB no one advances a base”

I walked over to other end of bleachers where most parents were and told them he nailed the call, it was a rule. An angry grandmother said to me point blank “I don’t think it is, you’re wrong”.

No I most certainly am not, and I looked up the MLB thing bc I was curious, turns out in 2014 they did away with catch and carry on MLB, didn’t know that.

After the game, I went to parking lot, introduced myself, thanked the umpire and told him he did a nice job. He is VERY RAW but who cares, we need young umpires, and he hustled and nailed the only rule application that came up. Got his # and told him I’d be happy to work with him sometime if he was interested in being trained up and he was all excited.

“if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem”.

He said he was really thankful to hear someone say he got the rule right bc everyone screaming at him made him feel like he messed up. “not yelling” is not the same as thanking.

If they are truly terrible, just say “thanks for showing up today “, it isn’t a lie, it’s better than none. You don’t have to say they were wonderful. But umpires who enjoy doing it tend to WANT TO improve , which is ultimately what the fans want.

Can start by making them feel appreciated for even doing it so a game could be played
 

umpire16

Active member
Gr
I hope I don’t upset AS12, bc this isn’t a question, but here is a thought/idea for people who love baseball and care about not having games cancelled for no umpire…thank an umpire when they are done.

About a week ago, my sons freshman game had a kid, literally a kid (he is in HS) working solo. My son also umpires and plays catcher so he always talks to the umps, I overheard this umpire say it was his first year.

Throughout the game some parents yelled about a ball/strike, one tag play at second he called out, kid was safe (my sons team) and a parent, who knows I umpire, asked me “what do you think” and I said “I’m glad he’s here” and wouldn’t entertain saying he missed it, we have had 2 games cancelled for no umpire.

Later, he called a catch and carry against us (our team in field), was a terrific call. Fans went nuts, “that’s BS”, that’s not a rule, “how come in MLB no one advances a base”

I walked over to other end of bleachers where most parents were and told them he nailed the call, it was a rule. An angry grandmother said to me point blank “I don’t think it is, you’re wrong”.

No I most certainly am not, and I looked up the MLB thing bc I was curious, turns out in 2014 they did away with catch and carry on MLB, didn’t know that.

After the game, I went to parking lot, introduced myself, thanked the umpire and told him he did a nice job. He is VERY RAW but who cares, we need young umpires, and he hustled and nailed the only rule application that came up. Got his # and told him I’d be happy to work with him sometime if he was interested in being trained up and he was all excited.

“if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem”.

He said he was really thankful to hear someone say he got the rule right bc everyone screaming at him made him feel like he messed up. “not yelling” is not the same as thanking.

If they are truly terrible, just say “thanks for showing up today “, it isn’t a lie, it’s better than none. You don’t have to say they were wonderful. But umpires who enjoy doing it tend to WANT TO improve , which is ultimately what the fans want.

Can start by making them feel appreciated for even doing it so a game could be played
Great work in all of this.
And even greater work sitting with fans. I can’t stand it at my sons games I sit down the line lol.
 

Knight27

Member
All right my umpire friends I got one. Bases Loaded 0 outs. Perfect double play ground ball to SS. SS fields flips to second. As the 2B makes the throw his arm breaks and the throw goes towards home. The kid goes down hurt. The runner heading to second never slid because he was about half way to second. Runners from 3B and 2B score. Batter heads to second. Base umpire calls dead ball and obstruction on the runner heading to second. No contact was close to being made. He calls runner out at second, runner out at first, both of the base runners who scored had to go back to 2nd and 3rd respectively. I believe for some reason the base umpire thought there was contact because of the way the throw went that’s why I included that detail. Was this the correct ruling on two fronts…should obstruction have been called? Was it the correct outcome based on obstruction
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I’m pretty sure the blues got this right today, but wanted to make sure.

A has runners at 1B, 2B. (One out)

A3 (batter) lays a bunt down. The ball goes up the first base line, hits the batter on the leg and as a result goes over the line. Batter is out. 1B and 2B proceed down the paths to 2B and 3B respectively after the ball is batted. Umps direct both runners that they need to retreat to their bases.

Dead ball out, yes?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bb9

umpire16

Active member
So
All right my umpire friends I got one. Bases Loaded 0 outs. Perfect double play ground ball to SS. SS fields flips to second. As the 2B makes the throw his arm breaks and the throw goes towards home. The kid goes down hurt. The runner heading to second never slid because he was about half way to second. Runners from 3B and 2B score. Batter heads to second. Base umpire calls dead ball and obstruction on the runner heading to second. No contact was close to being made. He calls runner out at second, runner out at first, both of the base runners who scored had to go back to 2nd and 3rd respectively. I believe for some reason the base umpire thought there was contact because of the way the throw went that’s why I included that detail. Was this the correct ruling on two fronts…should obstruction have been called? Was it the correct outcome based on obstruction
So it would be interference on the runner not obstruction. Only the defense can obstruct. But in this case I don’t see any interference. The defensive players arm broke and it was a trainwreck. Can’t do anything about that but hope the coaches see it and stop their runners so it can be addressed by the trainer asap.
I have a live ball here and play on until action ends.
 

umpire16

Active member
I’m pretty sure the blues got this right today, but wanted to make sure.

A has runners at 1B, 2B. (One out)

A3 (batter) lays a bunt down. The ball goes up the first base line, hits the batter on the leg and as a result goes over the line. Batter is out. 1B and 2B proceed down the paths to 2B and 3B respectively after the ball is batted. Umps direct both runners that they need to retreat to their bases.

Dead ball out, yes?
Where was the ball when it touched him? From
What you say it touched him then went over the line. Does that mean it touched him in foil territory? If so that’s a foul ball. If it touched him over fair territory it’s interference and he is out plus runners return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. Both are dead balls.
If it’s foul and he - in the umpires judgment - intentionally deflects it while foul it would be interference.
 

Knight27

Member
So

So it would be interference on the runner not obstruction. Only the defense can obstruct. But in this case I don’t see any interference. The defensive players arm broke and it was a trainwreck. Can’t do anything about that but hope the coaches see it and stop their runners so it can be addressed by the trainer asap.
I have a live ball here and play on until action ends.
So let’s assume interference was the correct call. What should have happened to the runners?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
So

So it would be interference on the runner not obstruction. Only the defense can obstruct. But in this case I don’t see any interference. The defensive players arm broke and it was a trainwreck. Can’t do anything about that but hope the coaches see it and stop their runners so it can be addressed by the trainer asap.
I have a live ball here and play on until action ends.
Agreed....

It seems that the umpire invoked (incorrectly) the Force Play Slide Rule.

Because of the location of the runner going to 2nd Base ( about halfway), the only way interference could be called on him is if he intentionally got in the way of the throw to 1st Base.

What we have is an unfortunate injury that created an errant throw.
 
.
Top