Ask the ref?

therealfutbol said:
Read all what I wrote, I did not say all, I said a certain percentage, you want to insist all is great and that's why you lose credibility, the first step in fixing something is admitting there is a short coming, I wish I had a perfect solution, I don't. The only way it could possibly work if you get some of the good young players interested but they burn out quickly because of the junk they get from the parents. Not sure why you assume I did not ref because I did for years, was not worth it and that's why I stopped, I am almost 60 years old and been around the game pretty much my whole life, played it, coached it and refereed. You all elect to continue to do it and some do a good job but many don't and that's my point. The pic I sent was from a referee that did JVB high school game in the dumbest system on the planet the 2 man system (i understand short of refs), he could not keep up and looked like he might pass out at any moment. On another subject I did not attend the Mason Centerville game but was told a way too old of a gentleman refereed, could not keep up, game had to be stopped multiple times so he can run over and talk to the linesman because he could not hear and was not able to watch the play and keep an eye on either linesman, many times made calls while 30-40+ yards away from the play. Many of the parents that never complain were irate how unfit he was to referee such a high caliber game. You need to stop being so defensive and work on solutions, again you elect to be doing it, figure it out
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The solution is to have more people take the classes and become a ref. A person as passionate about the game as yourself would be the perfect candidate. Be part of the solution.

Also, don't put words in my mouth. I insisted nothing.
 
Not sure what difference it makes

phatneff said:
So that guy was on the line for the Varsity game, too? Or was there only a JV game? And that was JVB as in JV Boys or JV B vs JV A?
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I think it was just a JVB boys game if I remember correctly, I don't believe he did Varsity that time but that same gentleman has done JVA games and varsity lines before and struggled mightily
 
phatneff said:
East, can you explain this? Why will pay drastically drop next year? Or is that only for the Youngstown area?
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I have heard taxes will be taken out across the board and more than a few refs are considering hanging up their whistle.

Depending on your political leanings, you may agree with that or not. Bottom line is you might be able to take home better money by doing rec and travel.

FWIW, i do not do HS, mostly because my son plays and I don't want to miss his games. I've considered doing it, but this makes me want to do it less.
 
EastYoungstown said:
I have heard taxes will be taken out across the board and more than a few refs are considering hanging up their whistle.

Depending on your political leanings, you may agree with that or not. Bottom line is you might be able to take home better money by doing rec and travel.

FWIW, i do not do HS, mostly because my son plays and I don't want to miss his games. I've considered doing it, but this makes me want to do it less.
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It's happening this year in Cincinnati. Schools are putting their referee assignments on Arbiter and the referees are getting paid by Arbiter..........one source instead of through individual schools. Because it's one source, you'll have to pay the taxes on your earnings $600+. Before, you never had to pay taxes because you never really officiated one school so many times that you'd get $600+ from them. You would have to pay if you reffed enough tournament games because OHSAA was the paying source for the post-season tournament.

I completely agree that it is total crap that it's changing to this. However, the referee money is and always has been extra money for me. It isn't for many referees, though. You're right, this Arbiter stuff is a big turn off for referees and we will lose a lot of them as well as pushing away any potential newcomers.
 
On the pay stuff, I don't think the taxes are going to come "out the top" because officials are not employees. What will happen is via ArbiterPay your contracting is through one vendor, which means you hit the 1099 thresholds. That said, talk to your accountant or tax preparer. Since the officiating stuff is now taxable income (has to be claimed that way), one can start deducting various expenses to offset the new income (i.e. licensure fees, travel reimbursement, etc).
 
bucksman said:
On the pay stuff, I don't think the taxes are going to come "out the top" because officials are not employees. What will happen is via ArbiterPay your contracting is through one vendor, which means you hit the 1099 thresholds. That said, talk to your accountant or tax preparer. Since the officiating stuff is now taxable income (has to be claimed that way), one can start deducting various expenses to offset the new income (i.e. licensure fees, travel reimbursement, etc).
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Excellent point
 
bucksman said:
On the pay stuff, I don't think the taxes are going to come "out the top" because officials are not employees. What will happen is via ArbiterPay your contracting is through one vendor, which means you hit the 1099 thresholds. That said, talk to your accountant or tax preparer. Since the officiating stuff is now taxable income (has to be claimed that way), one can start deducting various expenses to offset the new income (i.e. licensure fees, travel reimbursement, etc).
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That's a given. New uniforms, accessories, miles, etc. will all be write-offs. Still, not the same as getting paid directly by the schools.
 
Question for all: How often do you see the 6 second rule on keepers enforced?

I had a pretty spirited discussion with someone over the weekend about it. I always give a warning first, ALWAYS, and sometimes even let it slide a second time.

The person i was talking to was adamant that a PK be given right away on the first offense.
 
EastYoungstown said:
Question for all: How often do you see the 6 second rule on keepers enforced?

I had a pretty spirited discussion with someone over the weekend about it. I always give a warning first, ALWAYS, and sometimes even let it slide a second time.

The person i was talking to was adamant that a PK be given right away on the first offense.
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A PK right away would make no sense whatsoever. Myself I would warn and then if it continues then really it's a game to game decision. If the keeper with the ball is winning, he's most likely trying to waste time which you can usually tell. If the keeper is with the ball and losing and taking too much time, it doesn't really seem to be a problem because he isn't time wasting but still would urge the keepers to get the ball in play.
 
EastYoungstown said:
Question for all: How often do you see the 6 second rule on keepers enforced?

I had a pretty spirited discussion with someone over the weekend about it. I always give a warning first, ALWAYS, and sometimes even let it slide a second time.

The person i was talking to was adamant that a PK be given right away on the first offense.
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Whatever you choose to do, a PK is not one of the choices. The restart would be a IDK from location of the keeper when the foul is called.

Keeper needs to be taking a nap after a couple warnings to get the call. Or tight game and wasting time. Still multiple warnings.
 
Fulham said:
Whatever you choose to do, a PK is not one of the choices. The restart would be a IDK from location of the keeper when the foul is called.

Keeper needs to be taking a nap after a couple warnings to get the call. Or tight game and wasting time. Still multiple warnings.
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Agree. I will give a heads up to the Keeper (‘Play it, Keep!’) the first couple of times he/she goes right to 6 seconds or slightly beyond. If it’s a pattern, at a dead ball, i’ll more directly warn them about it when nearby.

I have never called a Keeper for violating the 6 Second Rule, probably because the warnings have worked. Same with punts / throws right on the 18, though I had an AR last year call a HS Keeper for handling when throwing the ball from the 18 (said the ball was 2 feet over the 18 & it left his hand).
 
Offsides Touch

Does the attacking team need to touch the ball in order to establish the offsides call? Is this different in OH high school versus FIFA?
Thanks Guys
 
Double yellow versus straight red

a straight red gets you a two game suspension in high school. What is the penalty for a double yellow? Just the rest of the game or is it a 1 game suspension?

I say just the rest of the game and you are eligible for the next game. Others are saying a 1 game suspension. Who is right?

Thanks!
 
BacknBlack said:
Does the attacking team need to touch the ball in order to establish the offsides call? Is this different in OH high school versus FIFA?
Thanks Guys
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NFHS (High School) follows the same offside rule as what is instructed by the IFAB.
The player in an offside position needs to establish "involvement" to be deemed offside.

IFAB Rule 11-2 Offside Offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

(1) interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate
(2) interfering with an opponent by
(a) preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the bally by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision
(b) challenging an opponent for the ball
(c) clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him/her when this action impacts on an opponent
(d) making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
(3) gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has
(a) rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
(b) been deliberately saved by any opponent

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.

A 'save' is when a player stops a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area".
 
Refs, there is so much information out there about this topic it makes my head spin. Heading for spring 2017 and beyond - is now allowed for U11 in games - true or false?

Last fall was confusing for parents, players and mostly refs doing multiple games on 9v9 field, crossing state lines, out of town tourneys etc. Apparently several refs have been told in recert classes that U10 and younger, no heading. U11 and older can head in games. Of course you go to OSYSA or OSSRC site and it still references fall where U11 and younger were banned.

What is the deal as games loom in a few short weeks??
 
Upper90:

Local leagues and tournaments may have rules that differ from each other.

I was not told anything in my re-cert about "headball" rules.
 
Just read through KHA rules for both coming tournaments - they have the build out line info and heading is not allowed for 7v7. This means heading is allowed at 9v9 and higher. There is no way KHA would do this on their own.
 
Upper 90 said:
Just read through KHA rules for both coming tournaments - they have the build out line info and heading is not allowed for 7v7. This means heading is allowed at 9v9 and higher. There is no way KHA would do this on their own.
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The KHA tournaments are sanctioned by Kentucky, not Ohio South. In Ohio South, beginning January 1, 2017, there is no heading in all age groups from U-11 on down (including U-11) (see the OSSRC website ossrc.com). We went over the presentation in the recertification class that I took for 2017.

I am not familiar with what Kentucky says on the subject.
 
EastYoungstown said:
Does the OHSAA have a rule that penalizes players for yellow card accumulation over a season?
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No.
I would like to see it happen but that would mean OHSAA would have to set up a system where a match report was filed for every match and I just don't see that happening right now.
 
soref said:
No.
I would like to see it happen but that would mean OHSAA would have to set up a system where a match report was filed for every match and I just don't see that happening right now.
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How about reds? What are the consequences? What about multiple reds?
 
Red cards are viewed as an ejection, which means the official(s) have to fill out a report to the state documenting the detail of the event. The first red card (ejection) is a two-game ban. The second red card in the same season is a ban for the remainder of the season.
 
I don't like the red card system in High School soccer. I would like to see a way to differentiate between "types" of Red Cards. Like basketball does with Intentional & Technical Fouls. Just this year, a high school girl had to miss 2 important basketball games because she got a red card in her soccer playoff game. The red card wasn't for a studs-up tackle or a dirty play, it was for a handball in front of the goal.
 
Thanks for the info folks.

Does this make HS refs more hesitant to hand out a red considering the long term effects? I would think so.
 
EastYoungstown said:
Thanks for the info folks.

Does this make HS refs more hesitant to hand out a red considering the long term effects? I would think so.
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No, the reasons for RC's are spelled out pretty straight forward in the Laws of the Game. Now, officials may judge specific acts in their opinion as Reckless (YC) or Serious Foul Play/Violent Conduct but those acts are the ones that need to have the more serious punishment.

The RC's that seem to "sting" are ones for DOGSO that carry the same punishment as SFP/VC.

I had a DOGSO a couple of years ago in the 5th minute of the match. That player basically served a 3 game suspension for a foul that wasn't violent in nature but did take away an obvious goal scoring opportunity.
Is it fair that this foul is punished the same as a player that commits a violent foul that endangers the safety of an opponent? I don't think so...

I honestly think that it is easy for OHSAA to have one straight forward set of guidelines in regard for punishing RC's. If not, then they would have to have someone or a group decide punishment on every RC report that is submitted.

Cautionable offences
A player is cautioned if guilty of:
• delaying the restart of play
• dissent by word or action
• entering, re-entering or deliberately leaving the field of play without the
referee’s permission
• failing to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner
kick, free kick or throw-in
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game (no specific number or
pattern of infringements constitutes “persistent”)
• unsporting behaviour
A substitute or substituted player is cautioned if guilty of:
• delaying the restart of play
• dissent by word or action
• entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee’s permission
• unsporting behaviour

Sending-off offences
A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following
offences is sent off:
• denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by
deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)
• denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving
towards the opponents’ goal by an offence punishable by a free kick
• serious foul play
• spitting at an opponent or any other person
• violent conduct
• using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
• receiving a second caution in the same match
 
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