AllSports12
Moderator
It's a huge issue. The kids repeat what they see on TV.
The same thing occurs in other sports as well.
Ask The Ref?
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
The same thing occurs in other sports as well.
There is a severe shortage of football officials in the Southeast area of Ohio this year. I know of one school in particular who needs a crew tonite. The school is South Gallia - about 15 miles out of Gallipolis. If any crew is open, contact the AD - Matt Bess 740-547-7570
AllSports12
Moderator
We heard about that plea. The severe shortage is statewide (nationwide actually).
Hopefully, they are/were able to piece together 4 or 5 officials to work this scheduled contest.
Six man is still a rarity in NW Ohio.
underthelights
Well-known member
Sounds like OHSAA should pony up some of that extra cash and make it worth it to become an official.
Rush Limbaugh
Well-known member
The host school is responsible for paying game officials. They have been extremely slow in raising games fees.
One area I’d like to see improved is the cost to get started. It’s like $300-$400 to get the minimum uniform, equipment, course, permits, local association dues, etc.
The OHSAA could do a better job of providing grants or some sort of start up funding to take that barrier away for newer officials.
I am not sure more money would totally solve the shortage. Not to sound egotistical, but not everybody is cut out to be an official. It is probably not normal to be able to take constant questioning and critcism and to keep your composure. I have taught basketball officiating classes for over 20 years and pay isn't what usually keeps a person from officiating or staying in officiating.
I spent about $200 on the bare minimum stuff to get started last year. I even worked my first couple contests in an old pair of baseball cleats just so I could cash flow it a little better. All in all, I made about $1500 just working sub-varsity and probably had $300-400 in it like you said. At least the ROI was realized fairly quickly.
AllSports12
Moderator
That's two weekends of games to get started. Not bad when you look at the big picture.
Furthermore, Schedule C is your friend.
How would you guard against people just bailing out within a few years?
Rush Limbaugh
Well-known member
Don’t know… but it could help get young folks into the game. I am sure someone could figure something out. It was just a thought, albeit not a fully formed one.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Saw this yesterday in a JH game. Kid fumbled the ball forward at the 3, recovered in the endzone by the offense and the crew ruled it an illegal forward pass saying it was an intentional forward fumble. Is this the correct ruling here?
AllSports12
Moderator
Lots to consider here.....
Merely fumbling the ball, even intentionally, with the result being that the ball ends up in advance of the fumble is not illegal.
Throwing the ball forward to simulate a fumble is not a fumble, rather it is a forward pass.
- If thrown from behind the neutral zone, we have nothing more than an incomplete pass. If thrown from beyond the neutral zone, then we have an illegal forward pass.
In other words, there is no such thing as an intentional forward fumble.
Where did the play originate?
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AllSports12
Moderator
Now, they are just sent off for one play.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Play started at the 10 YL going in
AllSports12
Moderator
Ok...
All you have is an illegal forward pass. If the penalty is accepted, the 5yd penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul along with a loss of down.
Straight out of the case book 7.5.2 E
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
In NFHS rules, if the ball crosses the goal line on a missed FG attempt, is it a touchback?
Just for good measure, does it matter if the ball crosses the goal line in the air or on the ground on the FG attempt?
Just for good measure, does it matter if the ball crosses the goal line in the air or on the ground on the FG attempt?
AllSports12
Moderator
Yes and no
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
I asked the 1st question b/c I was watching a game tonight where Team A attempted long FG that came up short. Ball reached Team B's end zone on the fly. Play was set to resume with Team B's ball on its 20. Team B HC called referee over, and after discussion, ball was spotted at the LoS from where Team A attempted the FG.
AllSports12
Moderator
Under NFHS Rules, it is a touchback once any kick penetrates the goal line plane.
Odds are that we'll see that one featured in our weekly bulletin.
oxat622
Well-known member
Not a question, but a weird case-book worthy scenario occurred in last night's Clemson/Duke game. Clemson's ball on fourth down, the quarterback keeps and begins a feet first slide just short of the first down. A Duke defender launches and hits helmet to helmet. The defender is called for targeting but since the contact occurred after the slide began, it is a dead ball penalty and since the runner was short of the line to gain, Duke gets possession on the turnover on downs with the 15 yard targeting penalty applied to Duke's starting field position.
AllSports12
Moderator
It's actually a simple (and not uncommon) penalty enforcement situation.
The only thing that differs between NCAA Rules and NFHS Rules on this play is the dead ball spot. Under NCAA Rules, that dead ball spot is where the slide obviously begins. Under NFHS Rules, it's where the runner touches the ground with anything other than their hand or foot. At times the difference between those two spots can be a couple of yards.
AllSports12
Moderator
The fouls that could occur on free kick going out of bounds could be either a free kick violations or illegal participation. The Rules Committee removed "illegal procedure" from our rule book well over 10 years ago. The signal (rolling the fists, ala traveling in basketball) remains the same.
If the play occurred just as described, then K caused the ball to go out of bounds. R's options are
- Take the ball 25 yards from the free kick spot (their own 35).
- Enforce a 5 yard penalty on K from the previous spot and re-kick (from K's 35)
- Enforce a 5 yard penalty on K from the out of bounds spot. (22+5 = ball on 27)
- Decline the penalty and the ball at the out of bounds spot. (their own 22).
A few things to consider.....
- If the R intentionally went out of bounds and then intentionally touched the ball while it was still in bounds, then R is guilty of Illegal Participation. R is penalized 15 yards from the previous spot and the ball is re-kicked.
- If R is touching out of bounds (unintentionally) and touched the kick that is still in bounds, then by rule K has caused the ball to go out of bounds.
- If R had one foot in bounds, secured the ball and then stepped out of bounds, then R caused the ball to go out of bounds and they would get the ball at the inbounds spot. (their own 22)
- If R was airborne, caught the ball, and returned to the ground out of bounds, then R caused the ball to go out of bounds and they would get the ball at the inbounds spot. (their own 22)
simkon
Well-known member
The kick bounced several times before it was picked up by the returner, the ball was right next to the line but was not yet out of bounds, it seemed as if it would go out if bounds but checked up just before going out, the returner in my opinion seemed to accidentally recover the ball with one foot out of bounds and one foot inbounds.
simkon
Well-known member
Question on penalties
So the clock was running, the team leading was given a bench warning, the clock ran down from 3:23 to 2:57 before they were flagged, then the clock continued running from 2:57 all the way down to 2:21 before the ball was snapped. It seems as though if it would benefit the team not penalized late in the 4th quarter that the clock would stop after a penalty. Then the team leading was called for a false start on the next play the clock ran from 2:12 down to 1:41 before they were flagged for false start, then the clock ran down to 1:00 before they were flagged for delay of game, then the clock ran down to 0:35 before it was snapped and a knee was taken to end the game. In all of this the clock kept on rolling the whole time, is this what should have happened and did the clock operator start the play clock at the appropriate time or reset it appropriately throughout?
So the clock was running, the team leading was given a bench warning, the clock ran down from 3:23 to 2:57 before they were flagged, then the clock continued running from 2:57 all the way down to 2:21 before the ball was snapped. It seems as though if it would benefit the team not penalized late in the 4th quarter that the clock would stop after a penalty. Then the team leading was called for a false start on the next play the clock ran from 2:12 down to 1:41 before they were flagged for false start, then the clock ran down to 1:00 before they were flagged for delay of game, then the clock ran down to 0:35 before it was snapped and a knee was taken to end the game. In all of this the clock kept on rolling the whole time, is this what should have happened and did the clock operator start the play clock at the appropriate time or reset it appropriately throughout?
AllSports12
Moderator
As described, that's a kick out of bounds.
Then again, there is an official looking right down that sideline (better than an angle a fan will have) and may have determined that R possessed the ball then stepped out of bounds.
And then again, the official may have messed up
simkon
Well-known member
I had the luxury of watching the zoomed in slow motion replay on the TV broadcast, a luxury none of the officials have.As described, that's a kick out of bounds.
Then again, there is an official looking right down that sideline (better than an angle a fan will have) and may have determined that R possessed the ball then stepped out of bounds.
And then again, the official may have messed up