Alamo renovation gets stuck over arguments about slavery

Purplemojo said:
1) Southerners were not the only colonists
2) Southern colonists were not the only revolutionaries
3) The large Tejano population had no interest in slavery and were just as anxious to be independent from Mexico as the Southern colonists.
4) Northern colonists had no interest in slavery and had emigrated to Texas for cheap land.
5) There were many European colonists who moved to Texas, especially from German States, but also Ireland and elsewhere.
6) The European colonists in Texas had no interest in slavery.
7) All Texians, of whatever ethnicity they may be, or no matter where they came from, were fed up with the suspension of the constitution and the dictatorship of Santa Anna.
8) There were former slaves who fought for Texas independence.

You make a sweeping statement that is clearly and demonstratively wrong, just because it fits your template and you have no capacity to accept the truth when it is looking you in the face. How sad to be a grown-up and to have the narrow mind of a child. It is truly a shame.

The world is a complex place. Maybe if you work at it you may someday be able to grasp the complex and leave your life as a simpleton behind.
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Leaders of Texas Independence

Steve Austin, Southerner, slave owner

Sam Houston, Southerner, slave owner, military commander, 2nd President of Texas Republic

Commanders at the Alamo

James Bowie, Southernre, slave trader and owner

William Barrett Travis, Southerner, came to Texas in pursuit of slaves

David Burnett, southerner, slave owner, first president of Republic of Texas

Mirabeau Lamar, Southerner, slave owner, 3rd President of Republic of Texas
 
isadore said:
antebellum: : existing before a war. especially : existing before the American Civil War.

Alamo took place in 1836, twenty five years before the Civil War
The battle played a role in the Texas War for Independence
That lead to the spread of slavery and so it was an event leading to the Civil War.
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The revolutionary war was an antebellum event I guess.
 
isadore said:
Leaders of Texas Independence

Steve Austin, Southerner, slave owner

Sam Houston, Southerner, slave owner, military commander, 2nd President of Texas Republic

Commanders at the Alamo

James Bowie, Southernre, slave trader and owner

William Barrett Travis, Southerner, came to Texas in pursuit of slaves

David Burnett, southerner, slave owner, first president of Republic of Texas

Mirabeau Lamar, Southerner, slave owner, 3rd President of Republic of Texas
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So, those guys fought the Mexicans all by themselves? and won? Wow! No, I guess they didn't. Given the history of military instruction in the Southern US and given the fact that the most recent wars were fought in the South (Creek Indian Wars), it is not surprising that many of the military leaders were from the South. Travis had no slaves when he commanded the Alamo. As far as Houston is concerned (this will make your head explode) this is his slave owning history: https://www.shsu.edu/today@sam/samhouston/HouEman.html

The fact is that almost all Texians, including the native Mexican population and the European immigrants, were opposed to and fought against Santa Anna, due to his suspension of the constitution of 1824 and slavery had nothing to do with their decision to do so, except for some slave owning (it was illegal in Texas) colonists from the Southern US. For you to minimize the tyranny of Santa Anna as a motive for the war is just plain wrong and is an insult to all of the non-slave owners who fought it.
 
Purplemojo said:
The fact is that almost all Texians, including the native Mexican population and the European immigrants, were opposed to and fought against Santa Anna, due to his suspension of the constitution of 1824 and slavery had nothing to do with their decision to do so, except for some slave owning (it was illegal in Texas) colonists from the Southern US. For you to minimize the tyranny of Santa Anna as a motive for the war is just plain wrong and is an insult to all of the non-slave owners who fought it.
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It's being done by design. The article I linked to explained that in order to make the Alamo and the Texas fight for independence all about slavery & white supremacy they had to repair the reputation of Santa Anna.

That Santa Anna was a dictator and mass murderer got in the way of creating this new narrative. Ditto for your point that there were general uprisings throughout Mexico against the Santa Anna dictatorship and his brutal policies.

People like Isadore are leading a soviet style rewriting of American history. And what a prize it would be if they could corrupt the legend of the Alamo with a false narrative describing the Texas war of independence as being in support of slavery and reaffirming white supremacy.
 
winbypin said:
The revolutionary war was an antebellum event I guess.
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in a way yes
Patriots inability to end slavery helped lead to the later struggle
When you declare Independence making the claim that "all men are created equal" but you allow slavery to continue.
 
Purplemojo said:
So, those guys fought the Mexicans all by themselves? and won? Wow! No, I guess they didn't. Given the history of military instruction in the Southern US and given the fact that the most recent wars were fought in the South (Creek Indian Wars), it is not surprising that many of the military leaders were from the South. Travis had no slaves when he commanded the Alamo. As far as Houston is concerned (this will make your head explode) this is his slave owning history: https://www.shsu.edu/today@sam/samhouston/HouEman.html

The fact is that almost all Texians, including the native Mexican population and the European immigrants, were opposed to and fought against Santa Anna, due to his suspension of the constitution of 1824 and slavery had nothing to do with their decision to do so, except for some slave owning (it was illegal in Texas) colonists from the Southern US. For you to minimize the tyranny of Santa Anna as a motive for the war is just plain wrong and is an insult to all of the non-slave owners who fought it.
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It would take too much of my time to go through every false claim you make. But lets take one example
You list a site about Sam Houston with an article claiming there is "a legend" he released his slaves before Emancipation Proclamation went into effect.
From an article in respected magazine Texas Monthly

Two years later he (Sam Houston) was dead.

He left to his widow and children: the house at Huntsville, five horses, four cows, a rifle, a pistol, and his San Jacinto sword. He left 12 slaves, the oldest a 55-year-old man named Lewis, valued at $400, the youngest a four-year-old girl named Lotte, also valued at $400. The most valuable slave was a 35-year-old man named Joshua. He sold for $2000. He left to Margaret and the children 17,873 acres of Texas—all this, the house, the slaves, the animals and land, all this worth in those times about $89,000. All that he left to his family.

Sam Houston, Warts and All

A good woman finally marries the wild frontier man and saves him from himself. Manifestly destiny.
www.texasmonthly.com www.texasmonthly.com
 
isadore said:
It would take too much of my time to go through every false claim you make. But lets take one example
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Yeah, one example. That is what you do. Find one example that fits your template. I cited the Houston article for kicks. That you found a contrary article takes nothing away from my point. The majority of revolutionaries were not slave owners and were fighting for independence due to Santa Anna's tyranny.

Please, please...please, do the research beyond your one example and prove me wrong. Please! You can't do it and that is a fact. I dare you.
 
Purplemojo said:
Yeah, one example. That is what you do. Find one example that fits your template. I cited the Houston article for kicks. That you found a contrary article takes nothing away from my point. The majority of revolutionaries were not slave owners and were fighting for independence due to Santa Anna's tyranny.

Please, please...please, do the research beyond your one example and prove me wrong. Please! You can't do it and that is a fact. I dare you.
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lol
your information was shown to be false, now you try to play it down
and whether the majority of the revolutionaries were slaveowners or not is not important to why the war happened.
Most people in the Confederate Army were not slaveowners
but the Civil War was fought to protect and expand slavery,
In the Civil War the government leaders and leading generals were almost all slaveholders
as were the government leaders and leading officers in the Texas-Mexico War.
 
isadore said:
lol
your information was shown to be false, now you try to play it down
and whether the majority of the revolutionaries were slaveowners or not is not important to why the war happened.
Most people in the Confederate Army were not slaveowners
but the Civil War was fought to protect and expand slavery,
In the Civil War the government leaders and leading generals were almost all slaveholders
as were the government leaders and leading officers in the Texas-Mexico War.
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You can probably appreciate the Alamo more than anybody, since you're outnumbered here 100 to 1 on a daily basis.
 
So, I did the research Izzy isn't willing to do. Lets look at the defenders of the Alamo:

209 Total
105 from slave states
35 from free states, 25 from foreign countries and 8 Tejanos (68 in all)
36 place of origin unknown

33% of the total are known to have come from free states, foreign countries where slavery was outlawed or were native Tejanos
Only 50% are know to have come from slave states and probably less than 5% were, or had been, slave holders

So what were the third of the individuals who had never lived in a slave state fighting for? Why in the world were the Tejanos, there and through out the state of Texas fighting against Santa Anna?

Sure some of the slave owners wanted the freedom to engage in the evil of slavery, in addition to all of the righteous freedoms to which all free people are entitled, but you cannot discount their desire for freedom of religion, freedom of speech, assembly and to have a representative republic. If the dictator Santa Anna gave them slavery but denied them all of the other freedoms, would they have been content? You are a moron if you think so. As to the full third that came from places opposed to slavery, there is no reason in the world to claim that they forfeited their lives for anything other than to live as free men and to throw off the yoke of tyranny.

For you to slander these brave men is despicable.

Source for place of origin:
www.thealamo.org

Defenders

Defenders of the Alamo are defined as those who fought and died during the final battle on March 6, 1836. There are many people who were at…
www.thealamo.org
 
Purplemojo said:
So, I did the research Izzy isn't willing to do. Lets look at the defenders of the Alamo:

209 Total
105 from slave states
35 from free states, 25 from foreign countries and 8 Tejanos (68 in all)
36 place of origin unknown

33% of the total are known to have come from free states, foreign countries where slavery was outlawed or were native Tejanos
Only 50% are know to have come from slave states and probably less than 5% were, or had been, slave holders

So what were the third of the individuals who had never lived in a slave state fighting for? Why in the world were the Tejanos, there and through out the state of Texas fighting against Santa Anna?

Sure some of the slave owners wanted the freedom to engage in the evil of slavery, in addition to all of the righteous freedoms to which all free people are entitled, but you cannot discount their desire for freedom of religion, freedom of speech, assembly and to have a representative republic. If the dictator Santa Anna gave them slavery but denied them all of the other freedoms, would they have been content? You are a moron if you think so. As to the full third that came from places opposed to slavery, there is no reason in the world to claim that they forfeited their lives for anything other than to live as free men and to throw off the yoke of tyranny.

For you to slander these brave men is despicable.

Source for place of origin:
www.thealamo.org

Defenders

Defenders of the Alamo are defined as those who fought and died during the final battle on March 6, 1836. There are many people who were at…
www.thealamo.org
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Majority of the men in the Alamo are from slave states. And what was the background of the leaders at the Alamo James Bowie, slave owner and slave trader, William Travis-slave chaser, David Crockett, slave owner.

The Texas revolutionaries are living in a nation that had made slavery illegal. They could have had their revolution and still kept slavery outlawed. But what do they do when they win, legalize slavery, and work to extend the slave dependent-plantation economy system. Of course what can you expect from a revolutionary movement led by slaveowners.
 
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