Weight Classes

How many weight classes?


  • Total voters
    37
People are people and every example on personality as far as a coach. If a club has a quality coach then he will be successful. It’s the ole capitalism in an open free market result. As far as a school system. Then it’s more of the socialist product. They usually want one of their own, school teacher. I don’t know if it’s the union or they feel more control from a liability point. But if your product is good you will get the kids in your room. But if your product is bad well it is still up to the administration. The protective bubble! This is why I’m for transfers with out penalties.
So as far as me having more influence over a High School coach than a club. I think that is the personality of the particular coach and I don’t think you can make that claim. It comes down to pride and humility and that is an individual whether school or club.
Ahhh so the public school wrestling is just the socialist participation option for those unworthy of the finances or ability to join the club system? That’s interesting if that’s what you’re saying.

You know what’s interesting about this lazy take. Is that of all the coaches I know who’ve actually made the effort to build relationships with their
Admin, AD, the other coaches and not be the “that coach” with entitled little man syndrome.. which lets be honest.. is a lot of Hs and club coaches. Get support from admin. I only know of a couple of examples where that coach was actively screwed over by admin anyway after doing these things. One was in a southern football school and the other was a former coach at either East Central or South Dearborn(I don’t remember which).

That honestly leaves it at a ratio of 10-2 on average that the coaches who made the effort to make allies of their admin and the other coaches. And who dont squall like bleeping toddlers bout the culturally dominant sports of basketball and football “getting more”.. get support from their admin.

And by support.. I mean that they are allowed to have control and do things their way. Then because those coaches win.. and usually these coaches do a good job and with eligibility and making sure their kids behave in class.. admin and the school want and sometimes expect them to Win.

My point being.. at most high schools..whether or not admin “just wants a babysitter” is based off how well the coach markets his program.. and whether or not they make it valuable to their admin. The real problem is most people in wrestling would rather act tuff and demand the same treatment as bb and fb then squawk and throw tantrums when they don’t.. which lets them play the martyr. They don’t understand that we.. whether or not we like it.. are in the position WE have to make wrestling valuable to them. Oh and the high school coaches have can make a huge impact of the program, and have huge amounts of control. Club coaches almost always end up beholden to the dads since they are the money sources

but.. like I’ve been saying this whole thread.. it’s exhausting and hard work. Staying on top of weekly emails to parents, school, admin with updates is a bunch of time, fundraising is time consuming, leaving your safe isolation to get out in the school is not fun. And so on and so on. I don’t mind it because I believe wrestling is about working hard.

And don’t be obtuse about why many schools want someone from within the building.. it’s not “cause unions”.. lol. They want someone who they can be SURE is there on time every day and not leaving kids unsupervised before the coach gets there. They usually prefer someone who can actually do something about the athletes being dumbas... er “immature”. Every Hs coach here will tell you that the other teachers are way more likely to tell you about such thing since passing or in person rather than putting something in writing.. also.. being in building helps eligibility simply for the fact you can just ask the teacher how your kid is doing and be aware of the situation as the semester progresses. They absolutely despise it when some dude not even in building is emailing them asking them to “help” Johnny A-hole get his 20% up at end of semester. The schools also want someone in the building who can be monitored more consistently to help prevent inappropriate conduct.

oh and if wrestling keeps up this lazy entitled attitude like you have and keeps drifting towards just being a free market club sport.. the-more it’ll shrink, the more it’ll get f’d over, the more college programs that will get cut...

* (Young coaches, NEVER ask teachers to “help” your kid get eligible.. it pisses even me off when other coaches do it and makes teachers more likely to not help them)
 

Crimsonblooded

Active member
Ahhh so the public school wrestling is just the socialist participation option for those unworthy of the finances or ability to join the club system? That’s interesting if that’s what you’re saying.

You know what’s interesting about this lazy take. Is that of all the coaches I know who’ve actually made the effort to build relationships with their
Admin, AD, the other coaches and not be the “that coach” with entitled little man syndrome.. which lets be honest.. is a lot of Hs and club coaches. Get support from admin. I only know of a couple of examples where that coach was actively screwed over by admin anyway after doing these things. One was in a southern football school and the other was a former coach at either East Central or South Dearborn(I don’t remember which).

That honestly leaves it at a ratio of 10-2 on average that the coaches who made the effort to make allies of their admin and the other coaches. And who dont squall like bleeping toddlers bout the culturally dominant sports of basketball and football “getting more”.. get support from their admin.

And by support.. I mean that they are allowed to have control and do things their way. Then because those coaches win.. and usually these coaches do a good job and with eligibility and making sure their kids behave in class.. admin and the school want and sometimes expect them to Win.

My point being.. at most high schools..whether or not admin “just wants a babysitter” is based off how well the coach markets his program.. and whether or not they make it valuable to their admin. The real problem is most people in wrestling would rather act tuff and demand the same treatment as bb and fb then squawk and throw tantrums when they don’t.. which lets them play the martyr. They don’t understand that we.. whether or not we like it.. are in the position WE have to make wrestling valuable to them. Oh and the high school coaches have can make a huge impact of the program, and have huge amounts of control. Club coaches almost always end up beholden to the dads since they are the money sources

but.. like I’ve been saying this whole thread.. it’s exhausting and hard work. Staying on top of weekly emails to parents, school, admin with updates is a bunch of time, fundraising is time consuming, leaving your safe isolation to get out in the school is not fun. And so on and so on. I don’t mind it because I believe wrestling is about working hard.

And don’t be obtuse about why many schools want someone from within the building.. it’s not “cause unions”.. lol. They want someone who they can be SURE is there on time every day and not leaving kids unsupervised before the coach gets there. They usually prefer someone who can actually do something about the athletes being dumbas... er “immature”. Every Hs coach here will tell you that the other teachers are way more likely to tell you about such thing since passing or in person rather than putting something in writing.. also.. being in building helps eligibility simply for the fact you can just ask the teacher how your kid is doing and be aware of the situation as the semester progresses. They absolutely despise it when some dude not even in building is emailing them asking them to “help” Johnny A-hole get his 20% up at end of semester. The schools also want someone in the building who can be monitored more consistently to help prevent inappropriate conduct.

oh and if wrestling keeps up this lazy entitled attitude like you have and keeps drifting towards just being a free market club sport.. the-more it’ll shrink, the more it’ll get f’d over, the more college programs that will get cut...

* (Young coaches, NEVER ask teachers to “help” your kid get eligible.. it pisses even me off when other coaches do it and makes teachers more likely to not help them)
Wasn’t talking about the kids but the bad coach you were referring to. The two systems in comparison in regards of a bad coach. One won’t be around because you will lose market and not survive and the other will be up to BOE with AD and the superintendent. My point was “we” don’t remove coaches or prevent certain coaches getting hired in the school system. I am for wrestling being available for all. My son has participated in two clubs and know for a fact the one has worked with families regarding cost and the other worked with a coach in lower income area for his wrestlers that the coach would take to the club in the off season. I commend that high school coach for his efforts. Any coach worth his salt has to work with everybody in his program. Very few programs can win with out the casual wrestler getting developed.
 
Wasn’t talking about the kids but the bad coach you were referring to. The two systems in comparison in regards of a bad coach. One won’t be around because you will lose market and not survive and the other will be up to BOE with AD and the superintendent. My point was “we” don’t remove coaches or prevent certain coaches getting hired in the school system. I am for wrestling being available for all. My son has participated in two clubs and know for a fact the one has worked with families regarding cost and the other worked with a coach in lower income area for his wrestlers that the coach would take to the club in the off season. I commend that high school coach for his efforts. Any coach worth his salt has to work with everybody in his program. Very few programs can win with out the casual wrestler getting developed.
Ah okay I understand your point now. I’m aware some club coaches do work with kids.. but there is an issue long term with that to me. I don’t really see clubs introducing the sport to places, families and people with no prior knowledge or experience about wrestling.

That leaves out the fact that the people(not “usually” the coaches to be fair) involved in the club system always seem the most vocal against actions to make the sport more accessible
 

Sweep

Member
If it is going to happen I would imagine it is going to be this year since things are up in the air with the Schott. I think State should always be the last weekend in Feb. In 2012, 2013, 2014 it was the last week of Feb which a was also the first weekend of March. It changed in 2015 to the second weekend in March. Before 2012 I do remember a couple years when State fell on the last weekend in Feb.
 

Blast82.5

Active member
106 is not a varsity weight class... My vote would be 12. I already know I am going to ball up a lot of panties on this one

112
120
128
136
144
152
160
172
186
210
285
Pretty good proposal. I respectfully disagree about 106 (I know the arguments on both sides, so I won't rehash them here). Adding one lightweight class gets us to 13, which allows for easy dual meet tie-breaking criteria, and it's less of an "opportunity reduction" for the sport. I could see starting at 108 and using 7-lb. increments until 136, and then your classes.
 

Lionattack

Well-known member
Why??? Is there really any fit in shape 300lb high school kids out there? If so how many?? 1-2-3??

Is a kid fit at 300 probably not but if you have an athletic 300 lb kid who loves football or a kid looking for his 1st sport and hes heavy . If you Can tell him he can keep his weight or he knows he is heavy but only needs to lose a little weight to be able to compete .

You might get that kid to come out and he is going to work his way into shape. Are the numbers that high no but it is a way to grab some of the fringe kids who would benefit from our sport. Coming out for the team obviously as they compete and workout they will find that weight they feel comfortable wrestling at .
Could help to promote a big lifestyle change for a kid like that.

Over the years I have had quite a few kids up around 275 and by the time they graduae because of wrestling and lifestle changes they were wrestling 189,195 , 220 just some examples.
 

miketyson

Active member
I will never understand why they dont add a weight class to the middle. Lets call it what it is football players don't wrestle and 220 is a joke of a weight class.
 

Rodman54

New member
I will never understand why they dont add a weight class to the middle. Lets call it what it is football players don't wrestle and 220 is a joke of a weight class.
No it’s not it’s so kids that weigh in the 230 pound range don’t have cut 30 pounds to make a weight they can compete at.
 

VTJGball

Active member
Are there less wrestlers out there today? Youth wrestling develops some wrestlers but scares so many wrestlers off. The MAC doesn't have youth football and there 7th grade football participation numbers are very high. So finding ways to get Jr. High boys out is the 1st step and then building up jr. High kids to move onto high school is the next challenge.
I wish high school programs had their own community boys wrestling for their community team.........that would be better for wrestling numbers. Maybe there would be many schools having the goals of winning state.
 
Are there less wrestlers out there today? Youth wrestling develops some wrestlers but scares so many wrestlers off. The MAC doesn't have youth football and there 7th grade football participation numbers are very high. So finding ways to get Jr. High boys out is the 1st step and then building up jr. High kids to move onto high school is the next challenge.
I wish high school programs had their own community boys wrestling for their community team.........that would be better for wrestling numbers. Maybe there would be many schools having the goals of winning state.
Yes numbers are going down. The youth/club system, and the accompanying parents are the most directly responsible. For various reasons. The club parents (who 9/10 quit in high school, never wrestled, or sucked) are also the most vocal opposition to things like the 2piece.
 

Pinwho1

Member
Is a kid fit at 300 probably not but if you have an athletic 300 lb kid who loves football or a kid looking for his 1st sport and hes heavy . If you Can tell him he can keep his weight or he knows he is heavy but only needs to lose a little weight to be able to compete .

You might get that kid to come out and he is going to work his way into shape. Are the numbers that high no but it is a way to grab some of the fringe kids who would benefit from our sport. Coming out for the team obviously as they compete and workout they will find that weight they feel comfortable wrestling at .
Could help to promote a big lifestyle change for a kid like that.

Over the years I have had quite a few kids up around 275 and by the time they graduae because of wrestling and lifestle changes they were wrestling 189,195 , 220 just some examples.
Practice don't compete, get in shape! No reason to change weight classes for 2 kids! 285 is very easily achieved if they want to wrestle.Why would you make a weight class higher than college?? Do exhibition matches.
 

Crimsonblooded

Active member
There are less kids enrolled today in Ohio and it has been slowly going down 1979 at the peak!
This is number one reason! Who is fighting shorts and shirts 🤷🏻‍♂️One persons comment doesn’t change the work and you know what doesn’t really change wrestling participation? Shorts and shirts over a singlet. The singlet was a good excuse not to go out for wrestling because you really didn’t want to and people keep asking.
 
There are less kids enrolled today in Ohio and it has been slowly going down 1979 at the peak!
This is number one reason! Who is fighting shorts and shirts 🤷🏻‍♂️One persons comment doesn’t change the work and you know what doesn’t really change wrestling participation? Shorts and shirts over a singlet. The singlet was a good excuse not to go out for wrestling because you really didn’t want to and people keep asking.
Excuse me lol.
 

LPW

Active member
Wrestling coaches should take a football aporoach to coaching wrestling. A football coach will develop a program top to bottom better than any other sport. They will oversee the entire program and all its layers that will ultimately give athletes to the program. They know the importance of numbers and depth not just the current season but 5 and 10 years down the road. A wrestling coach could benefit greatly from becoming an assistant football coach for a quality program to learn how to coach and see how it's done.
The term Lazy gets thrown around frequently but Wrestling coaches are some of the hardest working individuals I know. In fact I think a vast majority of them work to hard in a fixed direction without contemplating a U turn. They continue to do what worked for them and surround themselves with similar people that agree with the current aporoach. Like many wrestlers they just think working harder is the key. If a kid can't hack their program they run them off.
Grow the thing don't shrink it. Don't dump all your assets in one area. Invest time and energy in multiple layers and hire people that think differently than you but want a good program. Huge mistake most people make is only hiring people that were great wrestlers. A good wrestler who can't teach is a liability not an asset. An average wrestler that can observe,teach and formulate game plans is worth 3 formerly great wrestlers that can't.
 
Or how about this one, I’m just gonna lift for football and get bigger. What he is really saying is I’m not wrestling. So we take a middle weight from the more populated and water down the heavier weight classes to get that football player back out.
The real reason for the weight class change was lawsuits over the size gap at the upper weights. I have been told this by top officials from two different states. It was a CYA decision by the national board not an attempt for fb players.

Ignore reality of world we live in all you want and criticize that. That was the actual reason though
 
Wrestling coaches should take a football aporoach to coaching wrestling. A football coach will develop a program top to bottom better than any other sport. They will oversee the entire program and all its layers that will ultimately give athletes to the program. They know the importance of numbers and depth not just the current season but 5 and 10 years down the road. A wrestling coach could benefit greatly from becoming an assistant football coach for a quality program to learn how to coach and see how it's done.
The term Lazy gets thrown around frequently but Wrestling coaches are some of the hardest working individuals I know. In fact I think a vast majority of them work to hard in a fixed direction without contemplating a U turn. They continue to do what worked for them and surround themselves with similar people that agree with the current aporoach. Like many wrestlers they just think working harder is the key. If a kid can't hack their program they run them off.
Grow the thing don't shrink it. Don't dump all your assets in one area. Invest time and energy in multiple layers and hire people that think differently than you but want a good program. Huge mistake most people make is only hiring people that were great wrestlers. A good wrestler who can't teach is a liability not an asset. An average wrestler that can observe,teach and formulate game plans is worth 3 formerly great wrestlers that can't.
I’ve learned more about running a program, handling assistants, planning and running practices, from football coaches then I have from most wrestling coaches. One even told me he “loves wrestling but dear god y’all need to learn how to install systems and run more efficient practices”

And I actually think the word lazy is becoming warranted. To me, not being willing to adjust ones coaching, put in the different kind of work, and adjust ones mental approach.. and instead keep playing the entitled martyr is lazy.

Though, I still wonder at coaches who don’t grasp the fact that the 20 minutes you let your 20 kids play dodgeball instead of drilling doubles.. is going to make up far more actual reps and improvement.. over the course of the season than the 20 extra minutes of “hardcore” practice they’re currently doing with 8 kids.
 

miketyson

Active member
Let's be honest about the weight classes they make no sense at all. 220 and 285 are the lowest participation number every year but we constantly cater to these guys for some reason. I love how people would rather see forfeits and bad wrestling. Apparently you are getting what you want cause its been like that forever.
 

Crimsonblooded

Active member
I understood the national football board asked wrestling to recommend the changes. Michigan never did and that is the best for participation. 125,130,135,140,145 is where most high school kids are and is better than 126,132,138,145. They thought more football players would go out if they could stay big for football. When a kid says he just wants to focus on football and lift he is pretty much saying he doesn’t want to wrestle. Don’t take opportunity from the bulk of participating wrestlers to chase guys that are not gonna wrestle anyhow. I’m not against having shirt and shorts for guys that want them but the singlet excuse is more of I don’t wanna wrestle. You offer or ask but you don’t hound a kid who doesn’t want to wrestle by trying to change everything to take his excuse. It’s a way to politely refuse the recruiting coach. I’m am not against thinking outside the box to build numbers but it should be about the wrestler first. Could have an optional hour or so for serious hard working guys and casual participating guys could check out earlier. There is other ways to grow the sport. Wrestling will never get the salary to distribute to multiple coaches and the support from the school like football does. I don’t think the football format applies to a wrestling program. Apples and oranges!
 

Pinwho1

Member
Let's be honest about the weight classes they make no sense at all. 220 and 285 are the lowest participation number every year but we constantly cater to these guys for some reason. I love how people would rather see forfeits and bad wrestling. Apparently you are getting what you want cause its been like that forever.
What's your point? Make no sense? Im guessing your kids not in the lineup at a lower weight and you want more lowers to get him in????The average kid is a lighter weight, Not hard to figure out that's why there is already so many lower weights.Maybe it's lack of coaching your kids up at 220 285 that is lacking in your program?? Because our 220 and 285 are hammers.....
 

miketyson

Active member
If you put 220 and 285 together it would equal the average numbers of a middle weight is my point. It makes the middle weights very tough I will give them that. The funny part is a good 220 that goes to college usually drops to 197.
 

Pinwho1

Member
If you put 220 and 285 together it would equal the average numbers of a middle weight is my point. It makes the middle weights very tough I will give them that. The funny part is a good 220 that goes to college usually drops to 197.
Who cares, let's just have one weight like the old ufc! What's your point???? Opportunity is key!!!! 13 lower weights and one for 196-285 ???? Lol Now that is someone trying to get there kid on varsity!!! Development is key!!! A ton of 195 and 220 go heavyweight at the college level. All depends where and what the team needs. Heck Ok st heavyweight started at 174 i believe and now is heavy.
 

miketyson

Active member
It just funny the whole thread is about all these forfeits. Yet 11 years ago we eliminate a middle weight where the majority of the athletes weigh. I love how you grab on example. You haven't given any valid reason why 220 is necessary. If you put more weights in the middle with the most kids you will have less forfeits for duals with flexibility to move kids around. I don't think you are being honest with yourself about the lack of talent the 220 weight class brings. Its overdue its time to fix the weight classes.
 
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