The Official 2017 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
BlackHawk said:
Joe Morgan, Cesar Geronimo, Cactus Jack Billingham, Denis Menke and Ed Armbrister for Lee May, Tommy Helms and Jimmy Stewart.

Best. Trade. Ever.
Click to expand...

I won't argue that one. That's probably the greatest trade the Reds have ever made.
I will only say that the George Foster trade with the Giants -- for Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy -- has to rank up there as well.
 
Monclova Steve said:
I won't argue that one. That's probably the greatest trade the Reds have ever made.
I will only say that the George Foster trade with the Giants -- for Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy -- has to rank up there as well.
Click to expand...

How about when the Reds got Milt Pappas, Jack Baldschun and Dick Simpson for Frank Robinson? ;)
 
eastside_purple said:
I’m fine with Duvall in left, I’m also fine with dealing him for value. People like 14red way overrate him and try to call him elite; he’s definitely not elite. I took Taco’s comments about Duvall’s consistency. This is two years in a row where he pretty much collapsed in the second half of the year. I see both sides, but looking at him as a whole, I’d look to keep him if they think they have any shot at competing in the next 2 years.
Click to expand...

He's been at or near the team lead in home runs and RBI's the two years we've had him, and he's played a great left field defensively. He's certainly been better than average, and he's extremely cheap right now.
 
14Red said:
He's been at or near the team lead in home runs and RBI's the two years we've had him, and he's played a great left field defensively. He's certainly been better than average, and he's extremely cheap right now.
Click to expand...

None of that make him elite though.
 
14Red said:
He's been at or near the team lead in home runs and RBI's the two years we've had him, and he's played a great left field defensively. He's certainly been better than average, and he's extremely cheap right now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I said he was fine. He's just not close to elite as you've tried to portray him. :shrug:
 
Watching Aroldis Chapman last night do what he does got me to thinking about the Reds fans who still thought he could be a starter...

He's got a great fastball, and struggles like heck to get any other pitches over for strikes regularly. Typical save last night, got in trouble in the 9th, blew away Bruce with three straight fastballs after going down 2-0, then got the flyout to end the game. Is that closer role still overrated??
 
14Red said:
Watching Aroldis Chapman last night do what he does got me to thinking about the Reds fans who still thought he could be a starter...

He's got a great fastball, and struggles like heck to get any other pitches over for strikes regularly. Typical save last night, got in trouble in the 9th, blew away Bruce with three straight fastballs after going down 2-0, then got the flyout to end the game. Is that closer role still overrated??
Click to expand...

For a team like the Yankees who have World Series aspirations? No. For a team like the Reds in 2015 who finished with 68 wins? Yes. When your team sucks (as the Reds did in 2015) you don't need a closer. You need starting pitching and every day players on the field.
 
How do we know baseball is struggling from a fan standpoint??? You literally can't find baseball on the radio during the playoffs. Yes, the Indians games are on through local broadcasts, but you can't find any of the other games anymore. The ratings are so bad that ESPN puts on it's regular programming instead of the playoff games??
 
Taco MacArthur said:
For a team like the Yankees who have World Series aspirations? No. For a team like the Reds in 2015 who finished with 68 wins? Yes. When your team sucks (as the Reds did in 2015) you don't need a closer. You need starting pitching and every day players on the field.
Click to expand...

Taco, I just did a quick look at the pre-season predictions, no one had the Yankees contending. Next...
 
14Red said:
Taco, I just did a quick look at the pre-season predictions, no one had the Yankees contending. Next...
Click to expand...

I fail to see your point. Preseason predictions are irrelevant. On a crappy (2016 Reds) team, an elite closer is overrated.
 
Last edited:
14Red said:
How do we know baseball is struggling from a fan standpoint??? You literally can't find baseball on the radio during the playoffs. Yes, the Indians games are on through local broadcasts, but you can't find any of the other games anymore. The ratings are so bad that ESPN puts on it's regular programming instead of the playoff games??
Click to expand...

ESPN has the rights to the AL Wild Card game. So yes....they will have regular programming on instead of the playoff games. You can find those on TBS, FS1, Fox and the MLB Network.
 
Taco MacArthur said:
I fail to see your point. Preseason predictions are irrelevant. On a crappy (2015 Reds) team, an elite closer is overrated.
Click to expand...

Here is your fallacy Taco, you always look at things after they happen. No one has any idea if they are contenders or not going into a season. Why would you get rid of a closer if you may actually be good? What if the Yankees - thinking they were not going to be any good, would have got rid of Chapman before the season?

Also, as I've pointed out on many occastions, the 20-30 games a closer saves can make all the difference in a team making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. Actually, a 10 game swing in a 162 game season can make all the difference. Good or bad, I want a solid closer.
 
14Red said:
Here is your fallacy Taco, you always look at things after they happen. No one has any idea if they are contenders or not going into a season. Why would you get rid of a closer if you may actually be good? What if the Yankees - thinking they were not going to be any good, would have got rid of Chapman before the season?

Also, as I've pointed out on many occastions, the 20-30 games a closer saves can make all the difference in a team making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. Actually, a 10 game swing in a 162 game season can make all the difference. Good or bad, I want a solid closer.
Click to expand...

No, I don't always look at things after they happen. I looked at the Yankees from last year, an 84 win team, who improved their roster. Upgraded at catcher, RF, DH, SP and got more experienced with younger guys at 2B and SS. Could they have gotten worse or stayed the same? Sure, but common sense says they would have gotten better this year (and shocker, they did).

That is a stark difference in 2016 Reds who had no proven #1 or #2 starting pitchers, essentially a rookie at catcher, 35 year old Brandon Phillips, 30 year old Cozart, essentially 2 more rookies in Suarez and Duvall, and the ever streaky hitter in Bruce. Couple that with a Billy Hamilton who hit .226 the year before and Votto. Use some common sense.

You're right. No one knows if they are contenders or not before the season starts. That's why teams use common sense. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a team that won 84 games and improved their roster would likely improve. While a team who won 64 games and significantly downgraded their SP + brought on multiple unknowns will at best marginally improve and more likely, stay the same.

Even if the Reds did keep Chapman for last year at BEST they would have went from 68 wins last year to 78. That does nothing to improve the Reds in the long run. It hurts their rebuild. Your fallacy is you don't use common sense, at all.
 
14Red said:
How do we know baseball is struggling from a fan standpoint??? You literally can't find baseball on the radio during the playoffs. Yes, the Indians games are on through local broadcasts, but you can't find any of the other games anymore. The ratings are so bad that ESPN puts on it's regular programming instead of the playoff games??
Click to expand...

Well, this kinda contradicts what you're saying:

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-r...io-broadcast-every-pitch-2017-mlb-postseason/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top