TigerBeast78
Well-known member
See very rare but it can happen. I still agree we don't need 16 teams per region. I don't think.500 teams and below deserve to make the playoffs.
Ohio's current football playoffs.
- Thread starter radiodaveagain
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Sykotyk
Well-known member
True. But I think adults should be adults and realize the reality of the situation. 1v16 in D1 shouldn't be happening.
If anything, just make it a random draw. At least that would make the first round intriguing.
2002 Lima Bath beat D4 state champ Kenton, went 5-5, and finished 12th in the region.
You realize the entitled generation in every sense was the late boomer/early X right?
They're in charge and made these rules. They decided their kids needed trophies no matter what.
The Dock
Champion, 2024 Yappi Challenge
The same year that Winton Woods missed (2019), in D5R18 there was the incident where Lutheran East’s week nine game versus 1-6 D7 Mathews conveniently was cancelled the week of. Mathews would go on to play a different opponent that week, while LE sat idle.
I bet Lutheran East was surprised to learn that the cancellation of that game was enough to propel them into the playoffs, leapfrogging (thereby eliminating) 10-0 Northwood. They were probably more shocked to learn afterwards that had they played Mathews, they themselves would’ve been eliminated (because the L2’s weren’t there) with the original L2 divisor applied. Whether or not Northwood deserved to qualify for playoffs… who knows… but it was apparent there was little incentive for teams to play their original schedule (or play ten games to begin with) under the previous format if it meant putting their playoff ambitions in peril.
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bkmk1
Well-known member
Sorry to burst your bubble, but NOT the boomers. We were all raised by very strict parents that taught us about having a good work ethic, REAL consequences for your actions, (including paddling in school - then getting it again when you got home), quitting is not an option, etc... I could go on and on. And as a 30+ year teacher, I saw the school administration change over the years that turned to coddling and bowing down to parents. Those were not the boomers either.
It all started with the soccer Mom's. Kids today are soft, entitled and lazy. Put down the electronic device and take one off the face during a dodgeball game. Skin your knee playing touch football on the street in front of your house. Crash your bike into a parked car. Don't expect a rice krispy treat and Capri Sun after your game. Refuse to ride in a mini van. Eat your peas. Do these things and you will have a more productive life.
YTOWN
Well-known member
Winton Woods also beat the eventual D3 state champion in week one that season and still finished 9th.
Cleveland St. Joseph defeated the eventual D2 and D3 state champions in 1982 and failed to qualify but only 2 teams/region qualified then. St. Joseph finished 4th.
In 1991 St. Joseph, I think they were Villa Angela-St. Joseph by then, not only defeated eventual D1 state champ Cleveland St. Ignatius but shut the Wildcats out, 8-0. VASJ finished at 2-8 and 22nd in their region.
In 88 Akron Ellet beat D2 Buchtel but Ellet finished 21st in their region.
In 2012 Cardinal Mooney beat D3 champ St. Vincent-St. Mary, 41-15 but Mooney finished 19th in R11.
There are others that have done it. Overall it is rare but it has happened a little bit more often than one would think.
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CedarBuck92
Well-known member
Some of you really need to take a chill pill on this whole everyone gets a trophy thing. Its like your entire personality.
The Dock
Champion, 2024 Yappi Challenge
idk man, can’t help but think the practice of “adults who are not the parents can lay their hands on a child with impunity” is fine being a drop of water in an endless sea.
OldSchoolDC
Well-known member
The playoffs should be left at 8 and is best. I2 with the top 4 getting a bye is ok, but not best. The biggest difference for school in Ohio is where they draw their students from. There should be an Open division and Standard division. Open is for schools that pull from anywhere in the county, state, or country. The standard is for schools that only draw from a distinct drawn out boundary. There could also be considerations for percentage of students who didn't come from the feeder schools in that district.
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
I understand the good ole days are always going to have a place in our hearts but being practical the idea that school admins and teachers are never wrong and their word is 100% truth was never a good thing. Schools bending over backwards for parents also isn't a good thing. We should be aiming to be someplace in the middle.
Unfortunately, this is also tied to scheduling.
I would love to see 12 teams, but also having some type of rules around having to schedule more teams within your region, especially in D1. The GMC having so many teams in conference basically makes this impossible.
Short-term - 12 team playoff
Long-term - revise scheduling rules or even conference alignments and go to 8 teams
I would love to see 12 teams, but also having some type of rules around having to schedule more teams within your region, especially in D1. The GMC having so many teams in conference basically makes this impossible.
Short-term - 12 team playoff
Long-term - revise scheduling rules or even conference alignments and go to 8 teams
ElDuderino
Well-known member
The issue is not with the number of teams who are let in, but how the rankings are determined. Were a performance-based metric used instead of the incredibly dumb "who won" approach, the Winton Woods problem everyone is referring to (which was an absolute travesty) would not have happened. Letting teams into the playoffs who beat tomato cans over much better teams who play challenging schedules is flat out wrong.
If how the teams are determined is changed to be truly merit based, which includes a score/assessment for games they lost (today's method does not), only then is it fine to reduce the number of teams allowed into the playoffs.
And to take this even further, if everyone (or most everyone) gets in, do you even need the metrics?
Just let the coaches rank. They know who's good.
ElDuderino
Well-known member
This was tried during COVID, coaches have no morals and purposely manipulate the votes to give them home games. Mass Perry's coach ranked Mass Washington 16 instead of 1 so that Perry (2 on most ppls votes) would get the highest avg for the reg champ home game. Can't do it.
The Dock
Champion, 2024 Yappi Challenge
The OCC (especially the side with Dublin’s, Olentangy’s and UA) would just end up winning every state title from here to eternity under this idea.
At least under the current system there’s the mystic aspect of a 3-7 or 2-8 team from the OCC-Ring of Fire division upending someone in week 11 out of nowhere. That division likely doesn’t exist under an 8 or 12 team model.
bkmk1
Well-known member
I am not in favor of the entire old school way. But serious consequences for actions are GONE. A kid in school that is always getting into trouble, they now only get a slap on the wrist. They are breaking rules and it's ok. The problem is, those same rule breakers grow up never realizing what a true consequence for their actions are. So they get to 18, and are now law breakers ending end in Juvenile detention centers, jail, on drugs, etc... We all know a good home life is not a guarantee that a person will grow up a law abiding citizen and someone with integrity, high character, morals, and ethics. But it certainly increases the percentages. Any many kids do not have the structure needed at home.
bkmk1
Well-known member
Unfortunately, the power is now with the parents, and Admin will never take it back. Schools cower to any threat of a lawsuit. The teachers are always at fault. Little Johnnie's lies are the gospel. Classrooms are more about behavior management, teaching to a test, instead of actually teaching. And the next generation of teachers are not equipped to handle a classroom. Or they get a teaching job, can't handle it, and quit. I know many recent grads that went into education, got their first teaching job, and last about 1-3 years. With all the boomers retiring, the truth is education is in trouble. I have no idea where the next generation of educators will come from. And there is a teacher shortage for a reason. And it is not all related to the pay. It's truly because very few want to deal with today's kids.
I WILL NOW STOP POSTING ABOUT SCHOOL AND STUDENTS. IT IS OFF TOPIC FOR THIS THREAD.
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CedarBuck92
Well-known member
Maybe my mind is just running away with it. But how do we determine how good a loss is? Because I play 10 games and lose one. The team I lost to went 10-0 so has 9 other data points. Each of those data points have 9 other data points and so on. I just feel like it gets away from you really quick.
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
This is the entire issue. I am the son of a teacher, which meant I got the complete opposite of this. I was a great student and a good kid. But I was still a kid which meant I did make mistakes. Everyone of my mistakes was met with swift overwhelming justice. To this day I still feel that my one big mistake was used by the district to make an example of me.
And the good kid who slips up gets absolutely nailed.
bkmk1
Well-known member
Yes. I agree with you. And some can come down to: like any profession, there are good doctors and bad doctors. There are good dentists and bad dentists. There are good contractors and bad contractors. And there are GOOD teachers and BAD teachers as well.
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LS92
Well-known member
2020 Region 4 is an excellent counter example for letting the coaches
If it were to stay at 16 teams, which as people alluded to it likely will, and also the same reason they are increasing the number of divisions in almost every other sport - MONEY, I think they should cut the regular season to 9 games. I know it's only 2 teams by the end of the year but those kids are playing an NFL schedule by that point. I refer back to the MAC - teams like Coldwater, Marion Local, etc. who are routinely in the mix for a state title have kids finishing up their HS careers playing close to 60+ HS football games or at least on the practice field for that. Coupled with Summer Ball and you are on the field, hitting, etc. for around 20 weeks. That's a lot of wear and tear on a HS kid's body. Again, I realize for 85% of teams, they are only at 12 games at most every year but for a lot of the small school usual suspects, it's state championship game or bust.
OldSchoolDC
Well-known member
I don't think OCC would win every title because schools would go away from open enrollment if they knew there was an option. Most schools(Div 1,2,3) go open enrollment to keep up with other schools that have it. Also some of the districts in OCC allow intra-district enrollment, so they are open enrollment lite.
Well said! It comes down to depth. For a smaller school if 2 or 3 kids get hurt your pretty much done. Several years ago they made rules about limiting contact to prevent head injuries and then added games to the playoffs. With numbers diminishing all over the state it just makes it worse. Everyone one knows it just pure greed. I guarantee there's no 16 or 15 seed wanting to play week 11. Football isn't soccer or basketball. The good programs play extremely physical and easily cross the line of a form of child abuse against lower seeded teams.
Um, you want the OHSAA to pick and seed the playoff teams? Yes, let’s put Doug Ute in charge of that, too
bkmk1
Well-known member
Better suggestion? To me the Harbin system blows and is very flawed. Garbage in, garbage out.Um, you want the OHSAA to pick and seed the playoff teams? Yes, let’s put Doug Ute in charge of that, too
The Dock
Champion, 2024 Yappi Challenge
I disagree with the first sentence partly because, on its face, the decision to go OE or not doesn't factor in athletics. At least that is what Canton City Schools just said last month when they decided to go OE, lol. Even then, it's unknown how much utility there is to have athletics drive that decision.
Setting aside my OCC chest-beating, the conference comprises half of the non-OE Division 1 as is. The vast majority below (Centerville, Mentor, Winton Woods and Wayne aside) frankly aren't contenders for a football state title in a separated tournament.
Using 2024 Divisions and Regions, with this spreadsheet from the ODE as a reference on OE status https://education.ohio.gov/getattac...nt-Certification-Listing.xlsx.aspx?lang=en-US...
Division I (non-OCC)
Region 1
Berea
Brunswick
Cleveland Hts
Jackson
Medina
Mentor
Parma
Perrysburg
Strongsville (9)
Region 2
Beavercreek
Centerville
Fairmont
Lebanon
Northmont
Springboro
Wayne (7)
Region 3
Watkins Memorial (1)
Region 4
Colerain
Oak Hills
Sycamore
Winton Woods (4)
against
Division 1 (OCC)
Region 2
Dublin x2
Hilliard x3
South-Western x2 (7)
Region 3
Gahanna
Groveport
Olentangy x4
Pickerington x2
Reynoldsburg
Westerville x3
Worthington
Upper Arlington (14)
I personally would take the OCC vs the field in a hypothetical "non-OE D1" postseason. Of the four non-OCC schools I listed as being as potential contenders: Centerville hasn't made a state title game in 30+ years, Mentor is 0-2 versus the non-OE OCC in the final week, Wayne is ??? anymore these days, and Winton Woods would be the most likely to upend an OCC team in a typical strong year for the Warriors IMO.
One would say it's conjecture to infer that some internal policies on intra-district enrollment are driven by athletics instead of non-athletic reasons like redistricting, continuation of feeder-> high school attendance when lines are redrawn/when families move to a different part of the district, and permissions are granted to attend a different high school based on different academic programming offered at the desired high school from that of the assigned high school. (Also no such thing as "open enrollment lite" despite the fact that's what you want to call it, since it makes no sense the idea you're trying to conjure as you'd still have to live in the district to begin with.)
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