Marion Local

Bball216 said:
The blueprint is out there on how to build a program that is constantly good. The problem 90% of the schools / coaches don't want to put it the effort and time that it takes build that level of a program. The MAC schools and Kirtland have mastered that blueprint. It's no longer building a program - now its a culture. It becomes a way of life. You lift and do various forms of strength, conditioning and flexibility drills daily. You go from a hoping to win mentality to a expecting to win one. This does not happen overnight - but when it does its magical. Once players and community sees that what your doing works - the buy in year in and year out is easy.
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Outside of 3 schools, the MAC is like every other league. Good at the top, and awful at the bottom. They occasionally get a school once every 10 years pop up, make a run, and disappear (Fort Recovery, New Bremen)
 
RoyJohnson said:
Outside of 3 schools, the MAC is like every other league. Good at the top, and awful at the bottom. They occasionally get a school once every 10 years pop up, make a run, and disappear (Fort Recovery, New Bremen)
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You are out of your mind. The bottom of the MAC, traditionally being Parkway, proved in the 2020 all in playoffs just what all in playoffs would look like for the MAC.

The conference I was most familiar with over the years was the now defunct Cross County Conference. They had their conference power Covington attempt to win a game vs a MAC school 11 times in the playoffs. Result was Covington going 0-11 vs MAC schools. That is fairly remarkable to someone who comprehends random chance and possibilities.

Take a close look at 1-9 Ft Recovery this year, the logical result from an open minded approach would be this year Ft Recovery would contend for a conference title in many small school conferences.
 
I just took 15 minutes to look up each MAC school in that 2020 all in season. The fact is the MAC went 10-0 in first round playoff games that year, even their "bad teams" won first round games rather convincingly. So much for the theory the MAC is just another conference other than the top 3.
 
Well , down the rabbit hole I have gone.

2020 playoffs first round:
Parkway (0-5) 36. St Bernard (3-3) 6
Anna (1-5) 40. Miami East (2-4) 7
St John's (1-5) 41. Hardin Northern (3-3) 8
Ft Recovery (2-4) 63. Fairbanks (4-2) 7

Minster (2-5) 14. Allen East (4-2) 6
St Henry (4-2) 47. GCC (4-2) 7
Versailles (4-2) 35. Cin Hills (5-1) 19
New Brem (4-2) 52 Southeastern (3-4) 7
Marion L (6-0) 56. Cedarville (1-5) 0
Coodwater (6-0) 37. Triad (2-4) 6

So looking at the bottom 4 of the MAC WHICH I PUT AT THE TOP OF THIS LIST- they had a combined record of 4-19 going into the first round of the 2020 playoffs and their opponents had a combined record of 12-12 . The combined score of these four first round games was a resounding defeat of the opposition by the bottom of the MAC by a combined score of 180 - 28.

I have much more data uncovered in researching this but really need to get to work.
 
RoyJohnson said:
Outside of 3 schools, the MAC is like every other league. Good at the top, and awful at the bottom. They occasionally get a school once every 10 years pop up, make a run, and disappear (Fort Recovery, New Bremen)
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so NOW you are trying to STIR up MAC fans? LOL!!!
 
Entire MAC first round 2020 (10 teams ) 421 opponents 73. Average score of all ten games MAC 42.1. Opponent 7.3


Bottom 4 of MAC 180/4= 45. Opponents 73/4= 18.25

Top 6 of MAC 241/6= 40.1. Opponents. 45/6= 7.5


So top 6 of MAC outperformed bottom 4 only in winning margin (45-18.25=26.75 vs 40.1-7.5 =32.6) only by 5.85 points. Pretty consistent across the board.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
This, most HS coaches make players fit their system, Goodwin makes his system fit the players to maximize their talent.
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One thing I found interesting is reading about how after having already won state titles at Marion Local Goodwin revamped the ML defense and switched to a 3-4 defense because he realized that ML kids would be a better fit for a 3-4 than what he had previously run. There are so many coaches that refuse to change what they are doing even when they are struggling and yet here he is changing his defense after winning a state title.
 
Crimson and Black said:
In my estimation he would win no matter where he went. There are hundreds of D5,6 and 7 schools that have similar circumstances, small rural community, not blessed with crazy talent or size and not a lot of transfers. Yet nobody can touch them. They would win titles in D5,6 and 7 and outside of Glenville they’d be right there in D4.
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I'm honestly not sure how many schools have the same community stability as Marion Local and the others in the MAC. There are some for sure but I think the number is probably a lot lower than we realize.
 
Today said:
I love the Marion area, but Goodwin would have had the same success he has had over the past 20 years, if he were the coach at any MAC school, and probably most of the schools that fall in the D4 to D7 range. In small high school sports coaching is everything.
Just in our little area - History shows this
St Henry was dominate from 1984 to 2002 - (Heckman retires - they win 2 more to 2006) Then a struggle - Kids didn't change, coaching did.
Versailles was dominate from 1980 to 2003 - (Hetrick retires) Program doesn't win for 15 years or so
Coldwater was competitive - Reed comes and they are dominate, this success has been extended, but not to the level of Reed.

So Marion was just lucky to hire Kramer and create a complete dumpster fire at the end of the 90's, so we were ready for Goodwin to come in. Timing is everything.
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Bball216 said:
The blueprint is out there on how to build a program that is constantly good. The problem 90% of the schools / coaches don't want to put it the effort and time that it takes build that level of a program. The MAC schools and Kirtland have mastered that blueprint. It's no longer building a program - now its a culture. It becomes a way of life. You lift and do various forms of strength, conditioning and flexibility drills daily. You go from a hoping to win mentality to a expecting to win one. This does not happen overnight - but when it does its magical. Once players and community sees that what your doing works - the buy in year in and year out is easy.
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So it's funny. Goodwin has done A LOT of interviews over the years that are out on YouTube, PressPros, etc and some of the things he says are very interesting. One thing I have noticed lately is he continually seems to stress a couple of things.

First of all, he's not sure he could coach the way he and his staff do at most schools because most schools wouldn't allow their coaches to have as high of expectations as they do at ML.

Secondly, and something I find very interesting, is he has made numerous comments about the amount of effort he and his coaches put in to coaching all of the players every single day at practice. He's made a lot of comments about how no matter how big the week's game is (even if it is the playoffs) they still spend as much time coaching the younger players as they do the starters. It's almost like he is trying to give hints to people that hey if you want to keep your young players interested and playing be sure you invest time in them every day, He even says that he know a lot of schools don't do it.
 
Blue Jay Fan said:
What percent of Ohio high schools do you believe could "work hard" and "put in the effort" and win 14 state titles?
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So this is a legit question and it really becomes a numbers game. I'll ask the Marion Local people on here, what percentage of your kids can play sports or do another extracurricular if they choose to because the stability of their family structure allows them to participate in whatever sport they would like to participate in? My impression is that it's probably very high, somewhere around 90%.
 
BelowTheLine said:
Secondly, and something I find very interesting, is he has made numerous comments about the amount of effort he and his coaches put in to coaching all of the players every single day at practice. He's made a lot of comments about how no matter how big the week's game is (even if it is the playoffs) they still spend as much time coaching the younger players as they do the starters. It's almost like he is trying to give hints to people that hey if you want to keep your young players interested and playing be sure you invest time in them every day, He even says that he know a lot of schools don't do it.
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I agree this may be bigger than any other thing when building a program. Have seen many schools have that once in a generation bubble come to the top and they focus so much on that bubble that the group below gets discouraged. That will not sustain a program.
 
BelowTheLine said:
So this is a legit question and it really becomes a numbers game. I'll ask the Marion Local people on here, what percentage of your kids can play sports or do another extracurricular if they choose to because the stability of their family structure allows them to participate in whatever sport they would like to participate in? My impression is that it's probably very high, somewhere around 90%.
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You're probably right on the money. There's a lot of 2 sport athletes and some 3. This year's junior class are also pretty good baseball players and went to the district finals as an entirely sophomore team last year besides 1 senior. Watch out on the diamond for them this spring.
 
BelowTheLine said:
So this is a legit question and it really becomes a numbers game. I'll ask the Marion Local people on here, what percentage of your kids can play sports or do another extracurricular if they choose to because the stability of their family structure allows them to participate in whatever sport they would like to participate in? My impression is that it's probably very high, somewhere around 90%.
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I am from ML and your 90% guess would be fairly accurate IMO. Parents, grandparents, neighbors, upperclassmen all make the hustle and bustle of getting to practices, games, weights, etc. possible. It really is a community effort, and the family structure is very strong. (As is in other neighboring communities as well)
 
BKBIGDADDY said:
I am from ML and your 90% guess would be fairly accurate IMO. Parents, grandparents, neighbors, upperclassmen all make the hustle and bustle of getting to practices, games, weights, etc. possible. It really is a community effort, and the family structure is very strong. (As is in other neighboring communities as well)
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It was like that before Goodwin, as was the participation. Goodwin deserves 95% of the credit for the Flyers success, ML community 5%, there is no Marion Local dynasty, it is a Tim Goodwin dynasty.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
It was like that before Goodwin, as was the participation. Goodwin deserves 95% of the credit for the Flyers success, ML community 5%, there is no Marion Local dynasty, it is a Tim Goodwin dynasty.
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I mean I am a huge fan of Goodwin and obviously think he is an amazing coach but IMO Marion Local and Goodwin just happen to be the perfect marriage and both the community and Coach Goodwin deserve a lot of credit for the success of the team. It's impossible to know how many other coaches could've created a dynasty at Marion Local over the last two decades just as it is impossible to know how Goodwin would do at a school where the family structure limits the ability of kids to play and participate in the offseason program.

Personally, I just enjoy watching Marion Local play football from across the state because it is a thing of beauty to watch.
 
BelowTheLine said:
Secondly, and something I find very interesting, is he has made numerous comments about the amount of effort he and his coaches put in to coaching all of the players every single day at practice. He's made a lot of comments about how no matter how big the week's game is (even if it is the playoffs) they still spend as much time coaching the younger players as they do the starters. It's almost like he is trying to give hints to people that hey if you want to keep your young players interested and playing be sure you invest time in them every day, He even says that he know a lot of schools don't do it.
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Good stuff. A transformative coach instead of a transactional one. Joe Ehrmann would approve.
 
D4fan said:
Well , down the rabbit hole I have gone.

2020 playoffs first round:
Parkway (0-5) 36. St Bernard (3-3) 6
Anna (1-5) 40. Miami East (2-4) 7
St John's (1-5) 41. Hardin Northern (3-3) 8
Ft Recovery (2-4) 63. Fairbanks (4-2) 7

Minster (2-5) 14. Allen East (4-2) 6
St Henry (4-2) 47. GCC (4-2) 7
Versailles (4-2) 35. Cin Hills (5-1) 19
New Brem (4-2) 52 Southeastern (3-4) 7
Marion L (6-0) 56. Cedarville (1-5) 0
Coodwater (6-0) 37. Triad (2-4) 6

So looking at the bottom 4 of the MAC WHICH I PUT AT THE TOP OF THIS LIST- they had a combined record of 4-19 going into the first round of the 2020 playoffs and their opponents had a combined record of 12-12 . The combined score of these four first round games was a resounding defeat of the opposition by the bottom of the MAC by a combined score of 180 - 28.

I have much more data uncovered in researching this but really need to get to work.
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That is impressive work D4fan. That rabbit hole you mentioned can get very deep. 😂. Data data data!
 
BelowTheLine said:
One thing I found interesting is reading about how after having already won state titles at Marion Local Goodwin revamped the ML defense and switched to a 3-4 defense because he realized that ML kids would be a better fit for a 3-4 than what he had previously run. There are so many coaches that refuse to change what they are doing even when they are struggling and yet here he is changing his defense after winning a state title.
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I’ve coached 3 seasons and then left the teaching career path. I was an assistant under 2 coaches who adapted like that, adjusting defensive scheme and personnel and 1 coach who didn’t. The 2 who adapted, were the HCs and coaching staff that I really respected. The 1 who didn’t adapt or anything along those lines, I didn’t respect at all and regretted coaching with them. Wasn’t a fan of any other coaches on staff either.
 
BelowTheLine said:
I'm honestly not sure how many schools have the same community stability as Marion Local and the others in the MAC. There are some for sure but I think the number is probably a lot lower than we realize.
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Also you can’t minimize how much tradition counts for great programs. Kids take the practice field every day not wanting to be the team who doesn’t meet the expectations of the coaches and the community and all the kids before them. To me that is a huge part of consistently great programs.
 
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