HS Basketball Rules Misconceptions - 2019-20 Version

zebrastripes

Active member
Although football playoffs are getting underway tonight I actually have my first HS basketball scrimmage of the season so I figured it was a good time to post this and get everyone in basketball mode.

Here are the NFHS rules changes which basically amount to nothing. https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/basketball-rules-changes-2019-20/

2019-20 NFHS Rules Misconceptions/Clarifications
  • There can be no three second violation when there is no team control (i.e. once a shot goes in the air).
  • A high dribble is not automatically illegal. The ball must come to rest in the dribbler's hand for a palming violation.
  • There is no rule allowing "two steps" when driving to the basket.
  • A defender does not have to be stationary ("set") to take a charge.
  • Loose balls are not free-for-alls. You cannot illegally take away an opponent's advantageous position just because you're "going for the ball."
  • There are no such fouls as "over the back" or "reaching." No contact = no foul.
  • "Funny ain't illegal." That refers to traveling. What does the pivot foot do? If it stays down, or is lifted but doesn't return to the floor, there is no traveling.
  • If you're dribbling it's impossible to travel.
  • It is legal to recover one's own air ball as long as it's actually a try for goal.
  • A thrower-in does not have to stay planted to the ground. He has a 3-foot box that he merely has to keep one foot on or over. Traveling/dribbling rules are not in effect during a throw-in.
  • Kicking the ball must be an intentional act to be ruled a violation.
  • The clock does not stop after a made basket at any point during the game. Only a whistle stops the clock in HS.
  • A player can be granted a timeout when he is falling out of bounds. As long as there is player control a timeout can be granted.
  • "Last to touch, first to touch" is the key on backcourt violations. Even if the defense deflects the ball, if it subsequently deflects off an offensive player's leg, the offense cannot be the first to touch in the backcourt.
  • There must be player control following a throw-in before a backcourt violation can occur. A throw-in pass deflected by Team A in its frontcourt can be legally recovered by Team A in its backcourt.
  • During a jump ball, throw-in, or while on defense, an airborne player can catch the ball and make a normal landing without committing a backcourt violation.
  • All sides of the backboard are INBOUNDS. The supports are not.
  • The ball cannot travel directly OVER the backboard from either direction (assuming it's a rectangular backboard). It CAN travel BEHIND the backboard (on a pass, for example).
  • It is not goaltending to touch the ball while it is still on its upward flight, even if it has already touched the backboard.
  • A "moving screen" is not illegal unless there is actually illegal contact.
  • The opposing coach does not get to choose the free-throw shooter when the original shooter is injured. His sub must shoot.
  • All technical fouls include 2 shots and a throw-in at the division line.
Any others that I missed?
 

Snowman8

Member
Great post zebrastripes! Any clarification on how much contact is allowed (especially in the post)? It also seems like officials at the start of the year call games extremely tight with lots of hand checking fouls. By the end of the season it's a much more physical game, at least based on my observations.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
The rule misconception that frustrates me the most is the three second rule. Can't count the number of times I've seen a team shoot the ball 3-4 times in the paint in rapid succession with someone in the stands screaming at the top of their lungs "THREE SECONDS!!" They really think they are seeing a rule being broken and if they yell loud enough, the official will finally notice.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Great post zebrastripes! Any clarification on how much contact is allowed (especially in the post)? It also seems like officials at the start of the year call games extremely tight with lots of hand checking fouls. By the end of the season it's a much more physical game, at least based on my observations.
There are four fouls that are automatic per Rule 10-7-12. It's the same as the college rule with some slightly different verbiage. These fouls are intended to apply to freedom of movement on the perimeter against ball handlers.

a. Placing two hands on a player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.

I can't say that all referees enforce them as automatics, but we've gotten better collectively and the teams have adjusted since the big change was made in 2014-15. Officials that want to advance to and within the postseason are consistent with their enforcement of 10-7-12 in my experience.

Post physicality is something that is a major point of emphasis at the NCAA level but hasn't been enforced as much at the HS level, mainly because not many high school teams have a big post presence and most offenses run through the guards. I think sometimes when HS officials do get a game with lots of post action they aren't sure how physical to let it get. Knees in the butt, straight arm ward-offs, swim stroking, and other overly physical acts should be penalized and we need to do a better job with it.

The "games are called differently in December than in March" mantra has been around for a long time. I'm not saying there isn't truth to it but I don't think it's as widespread as most people believe. There isn't any directive from higher-ups to lay off the whistles later in the season.
 
"If you're dribbling it's impossible to travel. "

Sorry if this is overly technical. Does the ball need to hit the ground before the first step is complete or does the player just need to be in the act of dribbling (ie ball is traveling towards the floor)?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
"If you're dribbling it's impossible to travel. "

Sorry if this is overly technical. Does the ball need to hit the ground before the first step is complete or does the player just need to be in the act of dribbling (ie ball is traveling towards the floor)?
The dribble begins when the ball is pushed, thrown, or batted to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Although football playoffs are getting underway tonight I actually have my first HS basketball scrimmage of the season so I figured it was a good time to post this and get everyone in basketball mode.

Here are the NFHS rules changes which basically amount to nothing. https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/basketball-rules-changes-2019-20/

2019-20 NFHS Rules Misconceptions/Clarifications
  • There can be no three second violation when there is no team control (i.e. once a shot goes in the air).
  • A high dribble is not automatically illegal. The ball must come to rest in the dribbler's hand for a palming violation.
  • There is no rule allowing "two steps" when driving to the basket.
  • A defender does not have to be stationary ("set") to take a charge.
  • Loose balls are not free-for-alls. You cannot illegally take away an opponent's advantageous position just because you're "going for the ball."
  • There are no such fouls as "over the back" or "reaching." No contact = no foul.
  • "Funny ain't illegal." That refers to traveling. What does the pivot foot do? If it stays down, or is lifted but doesn't return to the floor, there is no traveling.
  • If you're dribbling it's impossible to travel.
  • It is legal to recover one's own air ball as long as it's actually a try for goal.
  • A thrower-in does not have to stay planted to the ground. He has a 3-foot box that he merely has to keep one foot on or over. Traveling/dribbling rules are not in effect during a throw-in.
  • Kicking the ball must be an intentional act to be ruled a violation.
  • The clock does not stop after a made basket at any point during the game. Only a whistle stops the clock in HS.
  • A player can be granted a timeout when he is falling out of bounds. As long as there is player control a timeout can be granted.
  • "Last to touch, first to touch" is the key on backcourt violations. Even if the defense deflects the ball, if it subsequently deflects off an offensive player's leg, the offense cannot be the first to touch in the backcourt.
  • There must be player control following a throw-in before a backcourt violation can occur. A throw-in pass deflected by Team A in its frontcourt can be legally recovered by Team A in its backcourt.
  • During a jump ball, throw-in, or while on defense, an airborne player can catch the ball and make a normal landing without committing a backcourt violation.
  • All sides of the backboard are INBOUNDS. The supports are not.
  • The ball cannot travel directly OVER the backboard from either direction (assuming it's a rectangular backboard). It CAN travel BEHIND the backboard (on a pass, for example).
  • It is not goaltending to touch the ball while it is still on its upward flight, even if it has already touched the backboard.
  • A "moving screen" is not illegal unless there is actually illegal contact.
  • The opposing coach does not get to choose the free-throw shooter when the original shooter is injured. His sub must shoot.
  • All technical fouls include 2 shots and a throw-in at the division line.
Any others that I missed?
A minor, minor clarification and one addition....

- A ball that touches the back of the backboard is out of bounds. ( as offiicials, we know what you meant )

- Slapping the backboard can never result in basket interference, regardless how hard it is slapped and how much the basket vibrates. If the slap is a natural continuance of an attempt to block a shot, then it is nothing. If the slap was intentional or an attempt to bring attention to one's self, then a technical foul is the result. Points can never be awarded for this.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
thanks Zeb. Any problem walking us through the block/charge parameters?
Assuming you are talking about a defender and an opponent who is in possession of the ball (player control foul) .....

- The guard must first obtain legal guarding position.

- To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

- After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:
a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status.
b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent.
c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs. (destroys the myth that "he moved!" or "he has to be set!" as noted in the original post)
d. The guard may raise hands or jump within his/her own vertical plane.
e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.

- Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent without the ball:
a. No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position.
b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.


All this has to be deciphered in a split second.
 
Assuming you are talking about a defender and an opponent who is in possession of the ball (player control foul) .....

- The guard must first obtain legal guarding position.

- To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

- After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:
a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status.
b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent.
c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs. (destroys the myth that "he moved!" or "he has to be set!" as noted in the original post)
d. The guard may raise hands or jump within his/her own vertical plane.
e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.

- Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent without the ball:
a. No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position.
b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.


All this has to be deciphered in a split second.
thanks as12. are you also a current working official?
 

coachted

Member
Although football playoffs are getting underway tonight I actually have my first HS basketball scrimmage of the season so I figured it was a good time to post this and get everyone in basketball mode.

Here are the NFHS rules changes which basically amount to nothing. https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/basketball-rules-changes-2019-20/

2019-20 NFHS Rules Misconceptions/Clarifications
  • There can be no three second violation when there is no team control (i.e. once a shot goes in the air).
  • A high dribble is not automatically illegal. The ball must come to rest in the dribbler's hand for a palming violation.
  • There is no rule allowing "two steps" when driving to the basket.
  • A defender does not have to be stationary ("set") to take a charge.
  • Loose balls are not free-for-alls. You cannot illegally take away an opponent's advantageous position just because you're "going for the ball."
  • There are no such fouls as "over the back" or "reaching." No contact = no foul.
  • "Funny ain't illegal." That refers to traveling. What does the pivot foot do? If it stays down, or is lifted but doesn't return to the floor, there is no traveling.
  • If you're dribbling it's impossible to travel.
  • It is legal to recover one's own air ball as long as it's actually a try for goal.
  • A thrower-in does not have to stay planted to the ground. He has a 3-foot box that he merely has to keep one foot on or over. Traveling/dribbling rules are not in effect during a throw-in.
  • Kicking the ball must be an intentional act to be ruled a violation.
  • The clock does not stop after a made basket at any point during the game. Only a whistle stops the clock in HS.
  • A player can be granted a timeout when he is falling out of bounds. As long as there is player control a timeout can be granted.
  • "Last to touch, first to touch" is the key on backcourt violations. Even if the defense deflects the ball, if it subsequently deflects off an offensive player's leg, the offense cannot be the first to touch in the backcourt.
  • There must be player control following a throw-in before a backcourt violation can occur. A throw-in pass deflected by Team A in its frontcourt can be legally recovered by Team A in its backcourt.
  • During a jump ball, throw-in, or while on defense, an airborne player can catch the ball and make a normal landing without committing a backcourt violation.
  • All sides of the backboard are INBOUNDS. The supports are not.
  • The ball cannot travel directly OVER the backboard from either direction (assuming it's a rectangular backboard). It CAN travel BEHIND the backboard (on a pass, for example).
  • It is not goaltending to touch the ball while it is still on its upward flight, even if it has already touched the backboard.
  • A "moving screen" is not illegal unless there is actually illegal contact.
  • The opposing coach does not get to choose the free-throw shooter when the original shooter is injured. His sub must shoot.
  • All technical fouls include 2 shots and a throw-in at the division line.
Any others that I missed?
Great thread. Can you address hand checking Seems like refs are very inconsistent on it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

zebrastripes

Active member
A minor, minor clarification and one addition....

- A ball that touches the back of the backboard is out of bounds. ( as offiicials, we know what you meant )

- Slapping the backboard can never result in basket interference, regardless how hard it is slapped and how much the basket vibrates. If the slap is a natural continuance of an attempt to block a shot, then it is nothing. If the slap was intentional or an attempt to bring attention to one's self, then a technical foul is the result. Points can never be awarded for this.
I would have been more accurate saying all "edges" of the backboard are inbounds rather than "sides." Thanks for catching that.

Good one on slapping the backboard. The backboard has nothing to do with GT or BI under NFHS rules.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Great thread. Can you address hand checking Seems like refs are very inconsistent on it.
See post #5 in this thread. There are four fouls that are automatic. I can't say I disagree that there is room for greater consistency amongst officials in enforcing this rule, but I can assure you that the "decision makers" expect these fouls to be enforced by tournament officials. The entire reason these four acts were codified in 2014-15 (a year after the college rule was implemented) was because we officials were not being consistent. It's gotten much better but will never be perfect at the high school level.
 

TheBuzz

Member
I'm enjoying this thread. I have a question, and unfortunately it's based on what seems to be inconsistency.

What is the official explanation for what constitutes a shooting motion, particularly in the case of the "And-1" play? It seems like some officials call it on (what I've heard called) the "gather," and some only seem to call an "And-1" it if the offensive player actually has the ball above their head in a shooting motion.

Thanks!
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I'm enjoying this thread. I have a question, and unfortunately it's based on what seems to be inconsistency.

What is the official explanation for what constitutes a shooting motion, particularly in the case of the "And-1" play? It seems like some officials call it on (what I've heard called) the "gather," and some only seem to call an "And-1" it if the offensive player actually has the ball above their head in a shooting motion.

Thanks!
We start by using the rule book definition of the act of shooting and the definition of a try.... (Rule 4-41)

ART. 1
The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap for field goal and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne shooter.

ART. 2
A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team's own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player's hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

ART. 3

The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.


...... from there it's judgment ;)

The location of the ball (above or below the player's head) or position of the feet ("on the floor") is irrelevant to whether or not a try or the at of shooting has begun.
 

jtk

Active member
this should be sent to schools so that all parents get a copy. its not as fun to ref games as it used to be b/c of many things mentioned in this thread. i still do it though because im too old to play any more. lol

jtk
()
 

zebrastripes

Active member
I'm enjoying this thread. I have a question, and unfortunately it's based on what seems to be inconsistency.

What is the official explanation for what constitutes a shooting motion, particularly in the case of the "And-1" play? It seems like some officials call it on (what I've heard called) the "gather," and some only seem to call an "And-1" it if the offensive player actually has the ball above their head in a shooting motion.

Thanks!
For the record, the NFHS rule regarding the act of shooting is technically the same as the NBA rule. Obviously they are not applied the same in many instances but the NBA gets this right more often than HS/college.

Collectively we need to do a better job here at the lower levels. We incorrectly rule fouls as non-shooting (i.e. common) far more often than incorrectly ruling fouls as in the act of shooting.

Rule 4-11 Continuous Motion

ART. 1 . . . Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

ART. 2 . . . If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

ART. 3 . . . Continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls after a player has started a try for a goal and before the ball is in flight. The ball becomes dead immediately.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Oh, and one more thing, the ball handler being "on the floor" has nothing to do with the act of shooting. This is why I encourage all officials to get this phrase out of their vocabulary. I'm sure AS12 feels the same. :)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Oh, and one more thing, the ball handler being "on the floor" has nothing to do with the act of shooting. This is why I encourage all officials to get this phrase out of their vocabulary. I'm sure AS12 feels the same. :)
Drives me nuts to hear that....

It's an AAU/youth ball call to keep the clock moving
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I have always thought when people yelled "over the back" they are doing so because of the contact/fouling of doing such act, not that they believe just simply going over the back with no contact was a foul.


but I could be wrong.


Good stuff. Not nearly as many legit misconceptions in hoops than I think in football or baseball though
 

OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
There are four fouls that are automatic per Rule 10-7-12. It's the same as the college rule with some slightly different verbiage. These fouls are intended to apply to freedom of movement on the perimeter against ball handlers.

a. Placing two hands on a player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.

I can't say that all referees enforce them as automatics, but we've gotten better collectively and the teams have adjusted since the big change was made in 2014-15. Officials that want to advance to and within the postseason are consistent with their enforcement of 10-7-12 in my experience.

Post physicality is something that is a major point of emphasis at the NCAA level but hasn't been enforced as much at the HS level, mainly because not many high school teams have a big post presence and most offenses run through the guards. I think sometimes when HS officials do get a game with lots of post action they aren't sure how physical to let it get. Knees in the butt, straight arm ward-offs, swim stroking, and other overly physical acts should be penalized and we need to do a better job with it.

The "games are called differently in December than in March" mantra has been around for a long time. I'm not saying there isn't truth to it but I don't think it's as widespread as most people believe. There isn't any directive from higher-ups to lay off the whistles later in the season.
I can say for 100% certainly that these rules are not followed consistently, or in some cases, at all. I wish they would start to be.

Is there some truth that some officials call certain league games a certain way so they can be guaranteed to be scheduled for those games? And coaches request certain officials that allow leeway with these contact rules?
 
I have always thought when people yelled "over the back" they are doing so because of the contact/fouling of doing such act, not that they believe just simply going over the back with no contact was a foul.


but I could be wrong.


Good stuff. Not nearly as many legit misconceptions in hoops than I think in football or baseball though
I think it's most commonly used when your team gives up 6 or 7 offensive rebounds in a row...combined with "3 seconds" and "Good grief, call something!"
 
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