How does the MAC do it?

BelowTheLine

Active member
I would imagine most if not all MAC communities have very little in the way of transient populations. Meaning the kids and families aren't coming and going like you see in Urban and Suburban communities. Helps if you go to school with the same people beginning in K all the way to and including HS. Small communities just like small school watch out for each others kids as well. Difficult to skip practice or misbehave if the random grandmother down the street knows you're suppose to be at practice and calls coach on her own.

MAC communities also foster a safe stable environment for their grads to come back to. Went to school at UT with a good many kids from St. Henry, Delphos, Coldwater, etc.... who had no issue moving back home after graduating college. For some populations moving back home after college is seen as a let down in life. For MAC kids is an honor of sorts to continue to live where you grew up. In those communities there is still tons of pride in where you came from.
So Marion Local has a student newspaper called the Gold Standard. At the end of each year their final edition is dedicated to the seniors. One of the things they do is find the kids who started kindergarten at Marion Local and moved away at some point to another school. It's usually a TOTAL of 4-5 kids.

Meanwhile, my school published kindergarten pictures of last year's graduating class. Of the 101 kids pictured in the kindergarten pictures, only 52 were there as seniors.
 

BelowTheLine

Active member
I think these 2 factors can be related. Low percentage of kids living in poverty means they're not in a position to need to get a job after school to bring additional money into their homes. Thus, they can keep playing sports when they're juniors and seniors. Additionally, having been in MAC country before, I'm not sure that there are more than a handful of fast food places out there where a teenager could get a job. There is no shopping mall nearby or anywhere else where a HS kid might ordinarily work. Despite not getting a lot of PT, coming back out for the team often remains the best option for what to do after school.
So this is certainly factor but there's more to it than just that. For example, my school had an enrollment of 1554 kids with 42% poverty. So that leaves us 58% that are not in poverty. 58 % of 1554 comes out to 901.

That means if we just counted our not in poverty kids we are still bigger than Marion Local, Minster or New Bremen. We are nowhere near being able to compete with those teams in football. I would say you could the same thing for 90% of the DV and DVI schools out there with few exceptions.

The MAC is maximizing what they have a lot more efficiently than other schools and that's a huge credit to them.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
I am interested in what you posted here (at the end)— I don’t have the time to do the investigative ground work you prescribe here— so can you elaborate on the differences you see between the rural/farm communities in West Central Ohio, and the areas in north and/or east of Cincinnati? I really am interested in what differences you have observed in those areas (and perhaps other areas of the state)... Clearly, there is a difference in their respective levels of HS football success— to what do you attribute that?
First, just so it is understood why I have spent so much time analyzing the communities, I market and sell a quality product that many used to make at home, but now generally purchase in stores, so I spend alot of time analyzing things such as median income, disposable income and social structure for many communities and cities.

South of I -70 along the corridor and between I-71 and I-75 there are many high earning communities (Oakeood, Centerville, Beavercreek, Springboro, Mason, Indian Hill etc.) and the small rural communities located near these economic hubs tend to feed off of these successful suburbs. The focus on daily living is a bit more economically driven as a higher percentage of homes have two family incomes than you find north of I-70 statistically. They will purchase their products from the store while many in the north may create or build their products for personal consumption.

This is likely the simplest explanation for social difference. The communities of the south are a busy people with not quite the "simple" social construct of the northern (Mac and area surrounding) peoples. I use the word simple here in a fond and good way. Life in "MAC land" tends to be traditional in the sense of faith, education , occupation and then rearing of children to complete one cycle and begin the next. MAC communities tend to worship together at one central church, while the affluent southerners will change where they worship every few years it seems, not building the same bond of community.

I have never successfully marketed my product to Mercer or similar counties, and the reasons become clear once you realize that as a group these communities know how to protect their resources and are rather a frugal group.

It is the value placed on the development of their youth that causes such things as $11,000 50/50 pots to occur at a contest between to "rival" MAC communities. I really think of the three components that others have mentioned (talent , applied knowledge through coaching and community support) , community support is the one you find replicated most often in communities located all throughout Ohio. There are many great communities out there that never will sniff the success of MAC schools in football for lack of available talent or coaching.

I've rambled enough, time to be like a MAC worker and get going while the day is still young.
 
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Yellow_Jacket06

Moderator
Community is definitely a significant factor. I wish we had half of that support in Sidney. Might make the playoffs more than once every couple decades. You would have a better chance winning the lottery than getting a levy passed here.
 

LELL

Active member
Community support/pride with great leadership are the main keys. Most of the MAC community doesn't play football until 7th grade. There they play multiple positions through out the year with the main focus on playing time. Then come high school, they compete and win football games. Some high schools in my area have consolidated their middle schools to just one. That's bad for football. Instead of having three middle school teams, now they only have one. It's all in the numbers. As a coach, I'd rather have three teams to look forward to, instead of just one.
 

CCHS93

Active member
I'll give my take. I happened to drive down to see the Catholic shrine in Maria Stein last month. Afterward, we drove around through Minster and New Bremen. Both towns are well kept and quaint. We drove by Minster High School and saw the band practicing. There were probably 30-40 kids. Minster is D6, I think. But they are getting that many kids for band? Based on my anecdotal observations of the band and the towns, to me, it has to be the communities. The teams are good, sure. But the families and communities that those kids come from are like no other. I've driven through hundreds of small towns in Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana. Those little towns down there are something special. It is known as The Land of The Cross Tipped Churches. The people there are close knit and have a certain work ethic. It is hard to replicate that over many small towns over many generations. But they have. That is why they keep winning. The communities are amazing.
 

VTJGball

Active member
I'll give my take. I happened to drive down to see the Catholic shrine in Maria Stein last month. Afterward, we drove around through Minster and New Bremen. Both towns are well kept and quaint. We drove by Minster High School and saw the band practicing. There were probably 30-40 kids. Minster is D6, I think. But they are getting that many kids for band? Based on my anecdotal observations of the band and the towns, to me, it has to be the communities. The teams are good, sure. But the families and communities that those kids come from are like no other. I've driven through hundreds of small towns in Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana. Those little towns down there are something special. It is known as The Land of The Cross Tipped Churches. The people there are close knit and have a certain work ethic. It is hard to replicate that over many small towns over many generations. But they have. That is why they keep winning. The communities are amazing.
The MAC has religion night on Wednesday. No regular season games, all practices finished by 6:00 so students in extra curricular activities can worship with others at their church.
Does other Leagues have this?
 
I'll give my take. I happened to drive down to see the Catholic shrine in Maria Stein last month. Afterward, we drove around through Minster and New Bremen. Both towns are well kept and quaint. We drove by Minster High School and saw the band practicing. There were probably 30-40 kids. Minster is D6, I think. But they are getting that many kids for band? Based on my anecdotal observations of the band and the towns, to me, it has to be the communities. The teams are good, sure. But the families and communities that those kids come from are like no other. I've driven through hundreds of small towns in Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana. Those little towns down there are something special. It is known as The Land of The Cross Tipped Churches. The people there are close knit and have a certain work ethic. It is hard to replicate that over many small towns over many generations. But they have. That is why they keep winning. The communities are amazing.
Not sure what you saw, maybe some of the kids were finishing up. But the Minster band has over 100 kids. Many years, especially the year(every 4th) that they go to Disney, it will approach 140, or more.
The band is the student section for Minster.
 

tiger56dad

Active member
Talked to a coaching friend of mine a few years ago that has lost to them alot in the playoffs
1. Genetics - they have the Jimmies and Joes
2. Coaching - They rarely get outcoached, which means you have to be as good or better at #1, which rarely happens, except at places like Kirtland.
3. Community - great support, no soccer, lots of two parent homes that promote the a winning culture.
I was going to guess no soccer. Don’t know how a small school could support both. Even at our D2 school, our strong soccer culture takes away athletes.....
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I was going to guess no soccer. Don’t know how a small school could support both. Even at our D2 school, our strong soccer culture takes away athletes.....
Some places have a very active youth soccer program for kids to go out and run around for a number of yeara before getting to football age
 

Burreaux

Member
That’s what really gets me is no soccer programs. Comparing to my neck of the woods here in southern ohio there are some schools that do not field a football team and have a soccer team. Only one has had consistent success with it and (South Webster/Bloom Vernon) they are right next to Wheelersburg school district so those that do want to play football typically go there. And there are other schools that only field a football and have dwindling numbers such as Eastern Pike, Portsmouth East and so on in this area.
 

serpico

Well-known member
My son was D -coordinator of a Cincinnati public, a few years back we did a non-conference with Marion Pleasant at their stadium. It was slightly intimidating considering all the conference championship banners on the walls as well as the tunnel of Trump signs that our team had to run through to get on the field. I was kind of laughing about the whole thing, I think the team was a little anxious, the truth is is that the folks there treated us wonderfully and it was an outstanding experience. Of course, we were beaten handily but was memorable!
Marion Pleasant is a long way from MAC country 😬
 

CJK84

Well-known member
I'm wondering if the success of the MAC has a little to do with a simpler explanation: the enormous emphasis placed on high school sports here. Maybe MAC communities aren't so superior to others; perhaps part of the success is that we're just more 'into' sports (or at least into certain sports).

Consider Marion's awesome success in football in the last 20+ years. It leads to comments about the wonderful families, the great community support, the enviable work ethic based on the esteemed agricultural tradition. Sure - all of these things seem to be largely true and to contribute to the football team's success each year.

But then consider Marion's decades-long struggles in baseball and the current rumor that there's a chance Marion will not field any high school baseball teams this spring due to a serious lack of numbers. Looking at ML baseball only, you could conclude that the Marion community might have problems: maybe too many parents work excessive hours and ignore their kids, perhaps there's a lack of community interest and support for high school athletics, maybe there are too many teen males who would rather focus on video gaming daily (and partying on the weekends) than working hard at a school sport six days a week in the spring.

I believe family health and community culture certainly are factors in success, but I also think the considerably-higher-than-normal interest in certain sports makes a difference. Maybe there are other communities that could accurately be described as strongly supportive of their schools, and yet they're just not as rabidly fanatical about hs sports, particularly football, as most of the towns in the MAC are.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
I'm wondering if the success of the MAC has a little to do with a simpler explanation: the enormous emphasis placed on high school sports here. Maybe MAC communities aren't so superior to others; perhaps part of the success is that we're just more 'into' sports (or at least into certain sports).

Consider Marion's awesome success in football in the last 20+ years. It leads to comments about the wonderful families, the great community support, the enviable work ethic based on the esteemed agricultural tradition. Sure - all of these things seem to be largely true and to contribute to the football team's success each year..

But then consider Marion's decades-long struggles in baseball and the current rumor that there's a chance Marion will not field any high school baseball teams this spring due to a serious lack of numbers. Looking at ML baseball only, you could conclude that the Marion community might have problems: maybe too many parents work excessive hours and ignore their kids, perhaps there's a lack of community interest and support for high school athletics, maybe there are too many teen males who would rather focus on video gaming daily (and partying on the weekends) than working hard at a school sport six days a week in the spring.

I believe family health and community culture certainly are factors in success, but I also think the considerably-higher-than-normal interest in certain sports makes a difference. Maybe there are other communities that could accurately be described as strongly supportive of their schools, and yet they're just not as rabidly fanatical about hs sports, particularly football, as most of the towns in the MAC are.
I have some experience with the Marion baseball program. I do not recall a time that the community and school tool it seriously, even when Cory Leubke was playing. One summer acme time we made the trip there and their coach said they could not play because lack of players, so Coach Brunswick loaned them two of ours AND A PARENT to play.

True story.

Fast forward to the Leubke years. I could not get anyone to even help me coach in the summer.. Not a former player or even a dad. One night a few kids skipped their optional basketball open gym and I got a nasty voicemail from one of their basketball coaches and the kids said they ad to run their butts off for missing an open gym in June and all they wanted to do was play some baseball because it was summer. A return call to the hoops coach went unreturned. I hope that wat you heard was just a rumor and they still have a team.
 

BelowTheLine

Active member
I'm wondering if the success of the MAC has a little to do with a simpler explanation: the enormous emphasis placed on high school sports here. Maybe MAC communities aren't so superior to others; perhaps part of the success is that we're just more 'into' sports (or at least into certain sports).

Consider Marion's awesome success in football in the last 20+ years. It leads to comments about the wonderful families, the great community support, the enviable work ethic based on the esteemed agricultural tradition. Sure - all of these things seem to be largely true and to contribute to the football team's success each year..

But then consider Marion's decades-long struggles in baseball and the current rumor that there's a chance Marion will not field any high school baseball teams this spring due to a serious lack of numbers. Looking at ML baseball only, you could conclude that the Marion community might have problems: maybe too many parents work excessive hours and ignore their kids, perhaps there's a lack of community interest and support for high school athletics, maybe there are too many teen males who would rather focus on video gaming daily (and partying on the weekends) than working hard at a school sport six days a week in the spring.

I believe family health and community culture certainly are factors in success, but I also think the considerably-higher-than-normal interest in certain sports makes a difference. Maybe there are other communities that could accurately be described as strongly supportive of their schools, and yet they're just not as rabidly fanatical about hs sports, particularly football, as most of the towns in the MAC are.
Here's the thing though, Marion Local has state titles in football, basketball, girls' basketball and volleyball. Sure, they haven't been good at baseball but they have been really good at multiple other sports. Minster, Versailles, St. Henry, Coldwater all have multiple state titles in multiple sports. Marion Local seems to be the most football-centric of the MAC schools from the outside but they certainly have done something right in other sports as well.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I'd love to see Coldwater or ML play Massie or Alter.
Coldwater vs Clinton Massie:
Coldwater leads 2-1.
2007 Playoffs. CW 63-14 Regional Finals. Interesting tidbit about that game.
CM had a cheerleader who had a heart transplant. Upon learning this, the CW community raised over $15,000 in just a few days for Savannah.
.

2017 Regular season. CM 24-14
2018 Reg Season. CW 31-28.


VS Kettering Alter: 1-1.
2007: Playoffs. CW 59-52 in Triple OT. CW was trailing 28-7 and 42-21 in that game. Epic game.
2008: Playoffs. KA 31-21.

Other big name schools CW has faced recently was Columbus Bishop Hartley. CW is 3-0 VS CBH in two seasons of matchups when CBH moved down. CBH is now DIII.
With the CB numbers, Kettering Alter is up to DIII.
CM is now DIV.
 
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Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
Not sure what you saw, maybe some of the kids were finishing up. But the Minster band has over 100 kids. Many years, especially the year(every 4th) that they go to Disney, it will approach 140, or more.
The band is the student section for Minster.
Minster has a large band, probably the largest in the MAC. But I have noticed that the bands at many of the other MAC schools have gotten considerably smaller in the past 10-15 years.
 

IndianaBanana

Well-known member
Minster has a large band, probably the largest in the MAC. But I have noticed that the bands at many of the other MAC schools have gotten considerably smaller in the past 10-15 years.
If I'm remembering correctly, only a few bands in the MAC participate in OMEA marching band competitions. Marion Local, Fort Recovery, New Bremen and Versailles I know do it for sure. Marion Local and Fort Recovery use to have huge bands. The Ted Shuttleworth era at Fort Recovery was an unmatched dynasty for decades. But like you and thavoice said, the bands have been getting smaller. I see it too.
I've always noticed this weird correlation at MAC football games. The bigger bands typically were non-competition bands like St. Henry, Coldwater, Anna, Parkway and the aforementioned Minster band. My hypothesis is a weird duality. On one hand, competing in band competitions are really fun and exciting (it might not seem like it, but from first hand experience, it's a lot of fun for the kids.) But on the other hand, It's almost just as fun, if not more, to play different music week to week, and most of it being fun contemporary and pop hits that the kids connect to and can be more loose and expressive with.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
If I'm remembering correctly, only a few bands in the MAC participate in OMEA marching band competitions. Marion Local, Fort Recovery, New Bremen and Versailles I know do it for sure. Marion Local and Fort Recovery use to have huge bands. The Ted Shuttleworth era at Fort Recovery was an unmatched dynasty for decades. But like you and thavoice said, the bands have been getting smaller. I see it too.
I've always noticed this weird correlation at MAC football games. The bigger bands typically were non-competition bands like St. Henry, Coldwater, Anna, Parkway and the aforementioned Minster band. My hypothesis is a weird duality. On one hand, competing in band competitions are really fun and exciting (it might not seem like it, but from first hand experience, it's a lot of fun for the kids.) But on the other hand, It's almost just as fun, if not more, to play different music week to week, and most of it being fun contemporary and pop hits that the kids connect to and can be more loose and expressive with.
I can see that. I know SH always had, or maybe still, has the moniker as they band that dares to be different and dances around. Likely is a lot of fun, but the contest bands yeah would have to be much more serious and likely 'less fun'.
 

CCHS93

Active member
Not sure what you saw, maybe some of the kids were finishing up. But the Minster band has over 100 kids. Many years, especially the year(every 4th) that they go to Disney, it will approach 140, or more.
The band is the student section for Minster.
Thats even better. I was driving by so I couldnt sit there and count. It was impressive, no matter the number.
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
The MAC has religion night on Wednesday. No regular season games, all practices finished by 6:00 so students in extra curricular activities can worship with others at their church.
Does other Leagues have this?
Fairly common with a lot of schools. Although having attended a Catholic school, we never had any church activities on a Wednesday night. Do Catholic churches in other towns have activities on Wednesday? Protestant churches?
 
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