How does the MAC do it?

CJK84

Well-known member
Summa - the St. Peter Church in Canton is indeed beautiful. The stonework appears to be amazing - imagine the craftsmanship required to do that in 1875 with no power tools!!
 

CJK84

Well-known member
The MAC has a high percentage of great families, making it comparatively easy for coaches to work with the kids. Thus great coaches are attracted to the area and stay a long time.

I think coaching, while surely not the only reason, is the biggest reason for ML's success in football this century.

side note: Marion has some really big classes (by their standards) coming up, starting with this year's or next year's Kindergarten class (about 100 kids). So hopefully by 2031 or 2032 Marion will move up to D-V in football and can take on Kirtland again!!!
 

thavoice

Well-known member
The MAC has a high percentage of great families, making it comparatively easy for coaches to work with the kids. Thus great coaches are attracted to the area and stay a long time.

I think coaching, while surely not the only reason, is the biggest reason for ML's success in football this century.

side note: Marion has some really big classes (by their standards) coming up, starting with this year's or next year's Kindergarten class (about 100 kids). So hopefully by 2031 or 2032 Marion will be in D-V in football and can take on Kirtland again!!!
Be careful what you wish for....
 

Msfootball

Active member
side note: Marion has some really big classes (by their standards) coming up, starting with this year's or next year's Kindergarten class (about 100 kids). So hopefully by 2031 or 2032 Marion will move up to D-V in football and can take on Kirtland again!!!
I went through the past 9 seasons since Kirtland and MSML really have gone on a rampage, and tried to imagine what the series would be if they had played each other all 9 years. Even in my imagination, I had to grudgingly give the edge to Kirtland 5 games to 4. Damn you Hornets!

2011 - Kirtland
2012 - Kirtland
2013 - MSML
2014 - MSML
2015 - Kirtland
2016 - MSML
2017 - MSML
2018 - Kirtland
2019 - Kirtland
 

Kirtland4580

Active member
I went through the past 9 seasons since Kirtland and MSML really have gone on a rampage, and tried to imagine what the series would be if they had played each other all 9 years. Even in my imagination, I had to grudgingly give the edge to Kirtland 5 games to 4. Damn you Hornets!

2011 - Kirtland
2012 - Kirtland
2013 - MSML
2014 - MSML
2015 - Kirtland
2016 - MSML
2017 - MSML
2018 - Kirtland
2019 - Kirtland
2013 is my biggest toss up, IMO. I know 2013 Marion Local was insane that year, but the 2013 Kirtland team also put up over 775 points in a single season. I’d still give 2013 to ML. One of the better ML teams all time for sure!
Also, there’s no doubt in my mind you should have beat us in 2015. I don’t need to remind you about that, though. Because you guys got us, and you got us GOOD in 2017.

I wouldn’t take this seriously, but here’s what CalPreps says...

2011: Kirtland, 24-21
2012: Kirtland, 31-22
2013: ML, 28-21
2014: ML, 35-20
2015: ML, 27-13 (real: Kirtland, 22-20)
2016: ML, 31-3
2017: ML, 28-10 (real: ML, 34-11)
2018: ML, 21-20 (real: Kirtland, 16-7)
2019: Kirtland, 21-17
2020*: ML, 21-20
TOTAL: ML, 7-3

I wish Kirtland would schedule a MAC team every year as a non-conference game. Would rotate MAC teams every year. Perhaps at a neutral site? It’s wishful thinking.......best of luck in the D7 playoffs, and more importantly, stay healthy!
 

Rangerfan

Active member
In my dreams I win huge lottery jackpot and build a covered MAC stadium (which converts for basketball and volleyball, maybe track and/or baseball) and every Thursday night there is a MAC Game of the Week. Weeks 1 and 2 we could put 2-3 out of conference games there. Be like Massillon and use the cash to lure quality opponents to southern Mercer/Auglaize counties.

Maybe the field would fit inside the velodrome I would build :)
 

Msfootball

Active member
2013 is my biggest toss up, IMO. I know 2013 Marion Local was insane that year, but the 2013 Kirtland team also put up over 775 points in a single season. I’d still give 2013 to ML. One of the better ML teams all time for sure!
Also, there’s no doubt in my mind you should have beat us in 2015. I don’t need to remind you about that, though. Because you guys got us, and you got us GOOD in 2017.

I wouldn’t take this seriously, but here’s what CalPreps says...

2011: Kirtland, 24-21
2012: Kirtland, 31-22
2013: ML, 28-21
2014: ML, 35-20
2015: ML, 27-13 (real: Kirtland, 22-20)
2016: ML, 31-3
2017: ML, 28-10 (real: ML, 34-11)
2018: ML, 21-20 (real: Kirtland, 16-7)
2019: Kirtland, 21-17
2020*: ML, 21-20
TOTAL: ML, 7-3

I wish Kirtland would schedule a MAC team every year as a non-conference game. Would rotate MAC teams every year. Perhaps at a neutral site? It’s wishful thinking.......best of luck in the D7 playoffs, and more importantly, stay healthy!
We see it the same way. I thought 2013 was the most difficult pick, but I gave it to MSML since they whacked the D5 Champs 47-14. Coldwater went on to beat Hartley 24-7 in the title game. In fact Coldwater gave Hartley their only two losses that year, beating them 41-16 in the regular season also. Of course that doesn't mean MSML would have beaten Kirtland that year. I just didn't see any wins on Kirtland's resume in 2013 as good as that.
Best of luck to your Hornets as well. Hope we're both in the finals!
 
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NewOldBlood

Well-known member
Is it just me, or does it seem that every team who is forfeiting playoffs games due to Covid were likely to lose by a wide margin in the game anyway?
Wapak thought they had a real good chance of beating a soft Badin team.
I think Troy would have beat Edgewood pretty easily. Wapak was going to get smoked. Badin is 6-0, won the GCL Co-ed, and beat two of the top 5 teams from their region during the regular season. Anybody from Wapak that watched film on Badin and thought they were soft doesn't know a whole lot about football.
 

E-Town

Member
I didn't realize the MAC schools don't offer soccer or wrestling (not all) ...and I'm guessing there are no hockey teams in the area? Also consider that most of the MAC FB championships come after the OHSAA watered down the divisions to 6 and 7. Or did the MAC not develop their strong work ethic, etc until the early 90's.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
I didn't realize the MAC schools don't offer soccer or wrestling (not all) ...and I'm guessing there are no hockey teams in the area? Also consider that most of the MAC FB championships come after the OHSAA watered down the divisions to 6 and 7. Or did the MAC not develop their strong work ethic, etc until the early 90's.
There were lot's of good teams in the 70-80s that were unable to go to the playoffs. Heck, John Reed had some undefeated Parkway teams that didn't make the playoffs and many said they could have won if they made it.
 

IndianaBanana

Well-known member
I didn't realize the MAC schools don't offer soccer or wrestling (not all) ...and I'm guessing there are no hockey teams in the area?
Theres only 78 schools in Ohio that play Hockey. Can't imagine any school that falls into D-4 through 7 in football can field a hockey team.
 

serpico

Well-known member
I didn't realize the MAC schools don't offer soccer or wrestling (not all) ...and I'm guessing there are no hockey teams in the area? Also consider that most of the MAC FB championships come after the OHSAA watered down the divisions to 6 and 7. Or did the MAC not develop their strong work ethic, etc until the early 90's.
Interesting take. Of course more divisions led to more titles, but it benefitted ALL sized schools. Increasing the number of playoff qualifiers helped the MAC more than anything, as these rural districts just weren’t accumulating enough points to qualify when only the top one or two were taken.
 

IndianaBanana

Well-known member
You only need about 20 kids and an ice rink.
Not familiar with a lot of ice rinks available in MAC country (if that's what we're focusing on originally). With smaller schools not having the enrollment numbers, traditional winter sports will typically take precedence.
Listen, I'd love the idea and rather watch MAC lacrosse instead of baseball in the springtime. But for the same reasons as hockey, it's just never going to happen.
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
I would imagine most if not all MAC communities have very little in the way of transient populations. Meaning the kids and families aren't coming and going like you see in Urban and Suburban communities. Helps if you go to school with the same people beginning in K all the way to and including HS. Small communities just like small school watch out for each others kids as well. Difficult to skip practice or misbehave if the random grandmother down the street knows you're suppose to be at practice and calls coach on her own.

MAC communities also foster a safe stable environment for their grads to come back to. Went to school at UT with a good many kids from St. Henry, Delphos, Coldwater, etc.... who had no issue moving back home after graduating college. For some populations moving back home after college is seen as a let down in life. For MAC kids is an honor of sorts to continue to live where you grew up. In those communities there is still tons of pride in where you came from.
 

CJK84

Well-known member
... I don't hate baseball or anything, I just enjoy sports that have more nonstop flow... and with more scoring.
Then you might enjoy 11-man rugby.

At Ohio U for Halloween weekend in 1986, I attended the OU-OSU rugby match on Saturday morning. There were some top-notch athletes on the field, the action was nearly non-stop, and even with very little padding to protect the players, there was a lot of violent contact. I enjoyed it greatly, probably in part because I stood like only 5 feet from the sideline - right on top of the action.

I still occasionally watch rugby on television. I'm no huge fan, but I like it.
 
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IndianaBanana

Well-known member
I really enjoy rugby! It's definitely up my ally, and also watch it when it's on.
My girlfriend has also gotten me into Australian Rules Football. That's sports crazy fun to watch when you learn what's going on! Her dad use to play and apparently would have been able to go pro if he didn't come back to the states.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I'm admittedly a no attention spanned millennial. I don't hate baseball or anything, I just enjoy sports that have more nonstop flow... and with more scoring. Lacrosse has always interested me from afar.
I am quickly losing immense interest in baseball.and I had always been hard core baseball. These youth baseball money teams is souring me on the sport that may be irreversible.
 

Ohiofootball80

New member
I'm not sure where you are getting the "weakest teams in that conference will usually beat or at least compete with the best teams in Ohio." Perhaps trying to stir up trouble? As a MSML fan, I'll tell you my team will hold it's own at the very least, against the best teams in the state, D5 through D7. Can the same be said for the bottom tier of the MAC? Not at all.
Anna vs West Jefferson. My point is proven. No, not trying to stir trouble. West Jeff was a HUGE favorite and EVERYONE said they would run away with it, yet it did not happen. I’m Central Ohio, not out west, but it’s amazing what the MAC is able to accomplish. Your team for example. Yes I know they are usually favored no matter who they play but they had a few closer games inside of MAC. They come out of MAC and with the exception of Kirtland, they just demolish teams. Other conferences can’t play with you MAC guys (other than Kirtland like I said) and that is a proven FACT! It takes their best team to hang with your very bottom tier. That’s why I asked how they do it. It’s happening there year after year after year but nowhere else (again with the exception of Kirtland) but that’s ONE team in that conference and you guys have multiple teams every single year and they haven’t did it as long as the MAC has. Small school football runs through the MAC and if anyone denies that, they have no idea what they are talking about. If you want a state title D6 or D7, sometimes D5 as well, best believe you’re gonna have to beat a MAC team to get it. Heck if it wasnt scheduled for them to beat each other before the final, it would probably be MAC vs MAC
 
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D4fan

Well-known member
Anna vs West Jefferson. My point is proven. No, not trying to stir trouble. West Jeff was a HUGE favorite and EVERYONE said they would run away with it, yet it did not happen. I’m Central Ohio, not out west, but it’s amazing what the MAC is able to accomplish. Your team for example. Yes I know they are usually favored no matter who they play but they had a few closer games inside of MAC. They come out of MAC and with the exception of Kirtland, they just demolish teams. Other conferences can’t play with you MAC guys (other than Kirtland like I said) and that is a proven FACT! It takes their best team to hang with your very bottom tier. That’s why I asked how they do it. It’s happening there year after year after year but nowhere else (again with the exception of Kirtland) but that’s ONE team in that conference and you guys have multiple teams every single year and they haven’t did it as long as the MAC has. Small school football runs through the MAC and if anyone denies that, they have no idea what they are talking about. If you want a state title D6 or D7, sometimes D5 as well, best believe you’re gonna have to beat a MAC team to get it. Heck if it wasnt scheduled for them to beat each other before the final, it would probably be MAC vs MAC
Your very last sentence is the one I often agree with. There have been several years where 3 teams from the MAC in Div 6 or 7 make the playoffs and only knock each other out head to head.
Shelby county though is an area where if they played football could compete with the MAC. Shelby county schools traditionally do not play football, but two districts have picked it up in recent years, Anna back in the 1990's and Ft Loramie in the early 2000's. If I wanted to find a team to compete with the MAC I would get Jackson Center to start a football program. That is another community that is very similar to MAC area schools.
Attend the Minster October Fest ( not during Covid years) and drive through these communities and you will experience what separates these communities from the rest of us "normal" folk . I have never been to Kirtland, but it is on my bucket list. Anyone who is connected to agriculture will really enjoy the few areas in Mercer county where small family farms still exist in fairly large numbers.

There are some other areas to the north who have experienced similar results over the last 20 years, Columbus Grove comes to mind. So I don't think the MAC has cornered the entire game, but it is intriguing how many communities are so vibrant in athletics.

Drive to the south around eastern Cincinnati and areas just north of there and you will find teams with good records that just simply can not compete with MAC schools. Take time to visit those communities and observe the people and I think you will see the contrast in what defines excellence vs the rest of us.
 

Msfootball

Active member
Anna vs West Jefferson. My point is proven. No, not trying to stir trouble. West Jeff was a HUGE favorite and EVERYONE said they would run away with it, yet it did not happen. I’m Central Ohio, not out west, but it’s amazing what the MAC is able to accomplish. Your team for example. Yes I know they are usually favored no matter who they play but they had a few closer games inside of MAC. They come out of MAC and with the exception of Kirtland, they just demolish teams. Other conferences can’t play with you MAC guys (other than Kirtland like I said) and that is a proven FACT! It takes their best team to hang with your very bottom tier. That’s why I asked how they do it. It’s happening there year after year after year but nowhere else (again with the exception of Kirtland) but that’s ONE team in that conference and you guys have multiple teams every single year and they haven’t did it as long as the MAC has. Small school football runs through the MAC and if anyone denies that, they have no idea what they are talking about. If you want a state title D6 or D7, sometimes D5 as well, best believe you’re gonna have to beat a MAC team to get it. Heck if it wasnt scheduled for them to beat each other before the final, it would probably be MAC vs MAC
I do apologize for suggesting you may have been trying to stir up trouble. Having said that, I could also point to Parkway getting hammered by Adena and say my point is proven. Anna is generally not what I would consider to be a bottom tier MAC team, which is the point I was making that it was a stretch when you stated , "the weakest teams in that conference will usually beat or at least compete with the best in Ohio". I'm curious if any of my fellow MAC fans agree with that statement of yours. Feel free to chime in guys. Since joining the MAC, Anna has won at least 3 games in conference play every single year, until now. This season being shortened, maybe they would have won 3 conference games if they had played Minster or St. John's. Heck, Anna won state last year. I think it's debatable if West Jeff falls into the category of "best in the state" but even granting that, my point is Anna has never been a bottom tier MAC team. I think Parkway proved my point last night more than Anna proving yours. Believe me, I root for all MAC teams when they play out of conference. I was rooting for Parkway last night, but they got hammered.
 
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4GX

Well-known member
Your very last sentence is the one I often agree with. There have been several years where 3 teams from the MAC in Div 6 or 7 make the playoffs and only knock each other out head to head.
Shelby county though is an area where if they played football could compete with the MAC. Shelby county schools traditionally do not play football, but two districts have picked it up in recent years, Anna back in the 1990's and Ft Loramie in the early 2000's. If I wanted to find a team to compete with the MAC I would get Jackson Center to start a football program. That is another community that is very similar to MAC area schools.
Attend the Minster October Fest ( not during Covid years) and drive through these communities and you will experience what separates these communities from the rest of us "normal" folk . I have never been to Kirtland, but it is on my bucket list. Anyone who is connected to agriculture will really enjoy the few areas in Mercer county where small family farms still exist in fairly large numbers.

There are some other areas to the north who have experienced similar results over the last 20 years, Columbus Grove comes to mind. So I don't think the MAC has cornered the entire game, but it is intriguing how many communities are so vibrant in athletics.

Drive to the south around eastern Cincinnati and areas just north of there and you will find teams with good records that just simply can not compete with MAC schools. Take time to visit those communities and observe the people and I think you will see the contrast in what defines excellence vs the rest of us.
I am interested in what you posted here (at the end)— I don’t have the time to do the investigative ground work you prescribe here— so can you elaborate on the differences you see between the rural/farm communities in West Central Ohio, and the areas in north and/or east of Cincinnati? I really am interested in what differences you have observed in those areas (and perhaps other areas of the state)... Clearly, there is a difference in their respective levels of HS football success— to what do you attribute that?
 

Ohiofootball80

New member
I do apologize for suggesting you may have been trying to stir up trouble. Having said that, I could also point to Parkway getting hammered by Adena and say my point is proven. Anna is generally not what I would consider to be a bottom tier MAC team, which is the point I was making that it was a stretch when you stated , "the weakest teams in that conference will usually beat or at least compete with the best in Ohio". I'm curious if any of my fellow MAC fans agree with that statement of yours. Feel free to chime in guys. Since joining the MAC, Anna has won at least 3 games in conference play every single year, until now. This season being shortened, maybe they would have won 3 conference games if they had played Minster or St. John's. Heck, Anna won state last year. I think it's debatable if West Jeff falls into the category of "best in the state" but even granting that, my point is Anna has never been a bottom tier MAC team. I think Parkway proved my point last night more than Anna proving yours. Believe me, I root for all MAC teams when they play out of conference. I was rooting for Parkway last night, but they got hammered.
Well said. It’s hard to use a game to prove a point because there is always other games that can be used against it to make it not be a valid point, as is the case here. I agree, I wouldn’t put West Jeff in one of the best in the state category. One of the best in their respective conference, even region is more fitting. There’s so many ways to go with this. Parkway and Anna was 34-33 game so one could say they were whatever tier Parkway was this year even if they usually aren’t in any other year. Just too many variables. I’m just trying to state that these teams usually look 10 times better once they come out of that conference versus the competition they have inside of the MAC. None of Anna’s in conference games were even close (with the exception of the lowly Parkway) but then they come out of there, win a game big time, then give another one of the best in their conference/upper region team all they could handle. Same with Parkway, granted they got hammered last night, they didn’t have a win until they came out of that conference then won by 30. Even Minster in 2017 was a 4 loss team but they sure didn’t look like it once outside of the brutal conference. Marion Local and Coldwater are two different animals than the rest of that conference, that’s a fact, but even the lower tier usually look good once outside of there
 
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StateChampion2012

Well-known member
If I wanted to find a team to compete with the MAC I would get Jackson Center to start a football program. That is another community that is very similar to MAC area schools.
They decided they wanted kickball so I doubt that's happening. Same with Botkins, Houston, and Fairlawn. I do think 8-Man could become possible at some of these schools. Russia doesn't have soccer or football so I'd love to see them give it a try.
 
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