Greater Cleveland Conference Expansion

cardzfan1234

cardzfan1234

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Greater Cleveland Conference Looking to Expand

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About a month ago, the GCC announced that they would be accpetion applications for expansion of the league. During the 2020-21 season, they are down to 7 teams. Beginning in the fall of 2021, the league will be down to six. Ideally, they would find two schools to put them at a perfect eight. The deadline for application is May 15. But let's not kid ourselves...the league would happily look at any takers over the next 6-12 months.

I know that the timing of this would schools being shut down makes it an interesting time. Anybody heard anything?

Personally, I wouldn't expect anyone to apply unless there is a school out there being quietly pushed out of their current league. All of the Region 1 public schools (Berea, Stow, Lorain, McKinley, etc.) are pretty happily tucked into their current leagues that make way more sense than applying to the GCC. The school I think is most likely to consider it would be Walsh Jesuit. They are a school without a home and the only NCL fallout that would be able to field enough competitive sports (boys and girls) with the GCC teams. I think Walsh would prefer the Suburban League, but they didn't even apply. The schools that applied (and were shut down from the Suburban) include Massillon, Brush, and Bedford. I don't suspect any of them would apply for the GCC - but stranger things have happened.
 
 
I can see how Walsh Jesuit makes sense if they apply. Non threatening private school but has a good athletic program . Ignatius and Eds should apply but they won't get in more than likely

My ideal 2 picks would be Stow and Berea. But as you said , they probably won't consider it. Stow would really benefit from a tougher league.
I'm wondering if brush would apply ? Them and Mayfield were originally invited to make the league 10 when it formed but they chose the wrc instead

I too want to know if anyone has heard any rumors on this
 
I haven't heard anything. Seems like all the focus is on trying to keep things together and coordinate workouts that kids can do on their own, and the future of the league is way off the radar. I wouldn't expect anything to happen before the 15th, but who knows since the GCC has probably been No. 1 on the list of leagues in Ohio that would be seeking new members, so maybe more behind the scenes things have gone on pre-coronavirus that doesn't push back the timeline as much as one would think.

Personally, I'm starting to really warm to the idea of Walsh. I always thought Hoban, due to football, would be the NCL team most likely to join), but the more I think about it, Walsh makes more sense, and the fact that it is more "non threatening" does play a major part.

With that, I wouldn't underestimate Walsh. The basketball program is on the upswing and it's not by accident, they have some nice talent coming up and the GCC could make them even more of a threat. If football can chip away from Hoban/SVSM, they can be competitive. Plus, Walsh has, to a small degree, has gotten students from Medina, Brunswick and even Strongsville (and I'm guessing Solon too). They may be able to build something there, which could be a draw for them if they are in the same conference. But unlike Hoban, they would be starting from behind, not way ahead of those programs that they may be able to "poach" from. So, I don't see that being a major point of contention with the current schools.

While football has mostly driven realignment, I don't think football would be the main driver with Walsh. It would be more about being competitive across most minor sports, basketball potential and then football.

So if Walsh isn't football driven, maybe that will open it up for Brush. I tossed them out before due to basketball, but I can see it having merit, especially if the GCC doesn't add a "football school" ala Hoban.

For Brush, it only has one GCC level program ... boys basketball. But that's a program that would be a legit GCC title contender, which would make them a strong contender to make the state final four based off of recent results. I guess it would be about turning the athletic department over to Chet Mason, but despite one clown on the basketball forum (who isn't even affiliated with Brush), who has made them a joke on this site, lets not pretend like Brush hasn't been a very good program and going to the GCC could make them elite. Their only problem is that they don't face the competition in the WRC that gets them ready for the tournament, hence the jokes. The top of the GCC is always a tough out and even the bottom of the league makes runs ... last place Strongsville nearly beat a Lorain team that made it to the state final four in a district final two years ago; this year, last place Elyria made it to the district semifinals. The GCC could be what just what Brush needs to get them to the next level. True, that's short-term and one sport. But conference realignment has been pretty much short term, and Brush is mostly basketball or bust anyway (though every four to five years comes up with a good football team). So if it doesn't work out, I'm guessing there is another round of reshuffling anyway and Brush can find a new home.
 
Brush is an interesting speculation. On the one hand, their varsity football might have a losing record if they faced the GCC JV teams - let alone their varsity. They went 0-10 in 2019, although to be fair they had 6 DII and DIII playoff teams on the schedule. But on the other hand, does it really matter what league you are in for football if you are 0-10? Like you said, they wouldn't be joining for football. Sure, the basketball would be a huge upgrade if the athletic program is ready to sacrifice so much (football competition, secondary sports, travel costs, etc.) for Chet and the basketball boys. Let's not suggest Brush is a hopeless football program though. They went 8-2 and made the playoffs as recently as 2017. But that was the only season since 2014 they had a winning record.

One thing we know is that Brush applied to the Suburban. So we know they are willing to look outside their current league. Or maybe the WRC is not pleased with the Brush basketball program steamrolling the league and Brush is trying to get out before they are kicked out and replaced. If they are really looking for a league to up the basketball competition big time, stay competitive in the other sports, and stay close geographically - the LEL would be a no brainer for them. Given the choice, I would think the LEL would add Brush and drop Lorain instantly.

The coach at Walsh (Nick Alexander) was an assistant at Mentor for three years with a lot of the coaches that are still currently at Mentor...including a co-offensive coordinator with new Mentor coach Matt Gray. For every sport but football, the GCC makes a ton of sense for Walsh. But the relationships between Alexander and Mentor coaches could hopefully be a tipping point to push them into applying.

If there were two teams that would apply to get it to be a perfect 8, I think Walsh is one. The other could be Lorain if (and only if) the writing is on the wall that the LEL wants Brush over them.
 
Honestly a lot of good fits for the league. It's just if the schools will have the guts to step up in competition

Stow is a solid all around sports school. If you want to get to that next level you gotta play with the big boys instead of d2 schools and such. Best choice for the GCC but I doubt they apply

Walsh Jesuit is very intriguing. D2 for football but have been solid in past. Good other sports and d1 in everything else

Berea has the size and location. Doubt they leave the easier league they are in

Brush would be fine for location and basketball. Suck at football but the 2 bottom feeders who left the gcc sucked at football too.

Benedictine is smaller that Walsh but I'd take them and Beaumont as a package too. Don't know if theyd apply but they've shown little hesitance in scheduling up in football and basketball both among others.
 
Since when does "non-threatening" become a priority to admittance to a conference? I always thought geography, enrollment, and similar athletic level across multiple sports were the important factors.

As to the privates mentioned...

Iggy & Ed's + Mags & SJA would probably never get past the ropes but would make a heck of a conference at the top end.

Walsh struggled with the NDCLs and Paduas, no way could they compete in this conference for football, on the other sports they would be middle of the pack. But importantly with regards to them is you would need to make sure the girls coaches are on board, they have some high level female programs that would probably dominate league play and pee some off.

As for Benny & Beaumont combo I would have no issue w/ this Conference but one thing that has become apparent in the upper Divisions of football is that while the Bengals have the players to keep up with the better teams they just don't seem to have the depth. Too many players go both ways and when a key guy gets hurt there is a big drop off to the next man up. On the other sports they would be middle of the pack with basketball being competitive and soccer struggling. Beamont would be an upgrade in volleyball and the running sports but would struggle in most others.

I agree that Stow makes the most sense and should think about moving over but then again they would be threatened by the stiffer comp so maybe that is a priority when it comes to conference affiliation.
 
Auggie said:
Since when does "non-threatening" become a priority to admittance to a conference? I always thought geography, enrollment, and similar athletic level across multiple sports were the important factors.

As to the privates mentioned...

Iggy & Ed's + Mags & SJA would probably never get past the ropes but would make a heck of a conference at the top end.

Walsh struggled with the NDCLs and Paduas, no way could they compete in this conference for football, on the other sports they would be middle of the pack. But importantly with regards to them is you would need to make sure the girls coaches are on board, they have some high level female programs that would probably dominate league play and pee some off.

As for Benny & Beaumont combo I would have no issue w/ this Conference but one thing that has become apparent in the upper Divisions of football is that while the Bengals have the players to keep up with the better teams they just don't seem to have the depth. Too many players go both ways and when a key guy gets hurt there is a big drop off to the next man up. On the other sports they would be middle of the pack with basketball being competitive and soccer struggling. Beamont would be an upgrade in volleyball and the running sports but would struggle in most others.

I agree that Stow makes the most sense and should think about moving over but then again they would be threatened by the stiffer comp so maybe that is a priority when it comes to conference affiliation.
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Of course threatening is an issue with recruiting private schools being invited into an all public school conference. The privates can take kids from our school district. We can't invade other areas like they do

Plus Iggy and eds can be scheduled in any sport . They don't have many public school takers. Mentor already plays both in football and can play them in league weeks (4-10) if need be. So no reason for even mentor to invite them into the league.

Stow and Berea are the best two options. But I don't think either will leave their conference where they can play smaller schools and avoid the big boys
 
Also Walsh Jesuit is the biggest former NCL school in enrollment. Them and Benny are D1 in most sports. We aren't going to add a d 4 football program that isn't D1 in other sports either
 
Another factor for Berea-Midpark and Stow is staying in their existing conference "contains" travel.

Stow's closest would-be GCC trip is Solon. In the Suburban they have Hudson and Twinsburg that are clearly closer and Nordonia I would think is the same to closer. Brecksville and North Royalton are two of the other three trips in their division of the Suburban, and those are closer than any of the proverbial "west" side schools. Only Wadsworth is "bad" trip in their division of the Suburban (thinking back to your weeknight all-sports stuff).

It's less of an issue for Berea-Midpark but it's still a consideration in my opinion.
 
Any school applying has to think there is a pretty good chance that the league could fold after the first two year cycle (2021-22 and 2022-23). By the end of 2023, I would be very surprised if all the current six GCC schools (Mentor, Solon, Euclid, Brunswick, Strongsville, and Medina) are all present. Four of those teams have applied (at least once) to the Suburban. Euclid will probably want to join the LEL again sooner or later, especially once Rotsky leaves.

It is possible if the right two schools apply, there might be enough consistency to maintain the league past 2022-23, but probably not. The only way this league lasts longer than 2023 is if an alien invades the brain of the Stow and Berea AD's and convinced them to leave a great situation for a worse one. Strongsville, Medina, and Brunswick would get another school on 71 that would help them put up with travelling to Mentor/Euclid a little longer. Solon and to a lesser extent Medina/Brunswick would be happier with Stow joining than a lot of other alternatives (Massillon, Brush, Bedford, Lorain) floating around.
 
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This shouldn't be a league threatening to fold honestly. Teams travel alot anyways across sports so it isn't a ton different for the D1 schools. Mentor would play schools like Strongsville in many sports while in the lel for example.

The sad reason it may not exist much longer is because of all the schools scared of competition. They'd rather beat up on smaller schools which will do nothing for them come playoff time.
 
Auggie said:
Walsh struggled with the NDCLs and Paduas, no way could they compete in this conference for football, on the other sports they would be middle of the pack. But importantly with regards to them is you would need to make sure the girls coaches are on board, they have some high level female programs that would probably dominate league play and pee some off.
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Football would be a struggle. But are they THAT far away from competing with Strongsville and Brunswick during some of their dry spells? I don't know. Plus like I have brought up before, the relationship that Walsh Coach Alexander (likely) has with the Mentor coaches has to help out a lot. I would like to think that Alexander isn't going into 2021 and beyond thinking they can't be competitive in Division II.

What girls sports are you referring to? Due to their enrollment and demographics - the GCC is extremely competitive in pretty much every single sport. Girls soccer, softball, girls basketball, and volleyball included. I don't think that the girls coaches in the GCC will keep Walsh out.
 
cardzfan1234 said:
Football would be a struggle. But are they THAT far away from competing with Strongsville and Brunswick during some of their dry spells? I don't know. Plus like I have brought up before, the relationship that Walsh Coach Alexander (likely) has with the Mentor coaches has to help out a lot. I would like to think that Alexander isn't going into 2021 and beyond thinking they can't be competitive in Division II.

What girls sports are you referring to? Due to their enrollment and demographics - the GCC is extremely competitive in pretty much every single sport. Girls soccer, softball, girls basketball, and volleyball included. I don't think that the girls coaches in the GCC will keep Walsh out.
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I'd like an answer to that as well. I don't go to any sports outside of football and boys basketball. ..that being said , the GCC seems to be very competitive in girls sports and non revenue boys sports as well
 
EagleFan said:
I think a combo of St. Edward and St. Joseph Academy would work.
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It would work to end the league. If Medina, Brunswick, or Solon wanted to schedule St Eds or St Ignatius in football (and to my knowledge, they haven't in quite some time - maybe not ever), they would. I wouldn't blame any of the GCC schools (including Mentor) if they didn't want to accept Eds or Ignatius into the league. There is really no upside other than a year or two where you could fill out a 7-game league schedule.

I wonder if Eds/Ignatius have discussed the possibility (along with Magnificat and SJA) of applying together or not. If there was ever a time to give it a shot, this is probably it. But they probably see it as incredibly unlikely and probably wouldn't bother.
 
cardzfan1234 said:
It would work to end the league. If Medina, Brunswick, or Solon wanted to schedule St Eds or St Ignatius in football (and to my knowledge, they haven't in quite some time - maybe not ever), they would. I wouldn't blame any of the GCC schools (including Mentor) if they didn't want to accept Eds or Ignatius into the league. There is really no upside other than a year or two where you could fill out a 7-game league schedule.

I wonder if Eds/Ignatius have discussed the possibility (along with Magnificat and SJA) of applying together or not. If there was ever a time to give it a shot, this is probably it. But they probably see it as incredibly unlikely and probably wouldn't bother.
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Yeah I'm wondering if they will apply too. But really there is no point in adding them. Football is the only sport where scheduling can be tough. And with that , anyone in the GCC could get eds or Ignatius early in the year or in normal league weeks as a fill in (4-10 weeks) if they wanted

Mentor can move eds or Ignatius to later in the year if need be. This is if we don't find 2 teams to join the GCC and only have 5 league games
 
cardzfan1234 said:
Brush is an interesting speculation. On the one hand, their varsity football might have a losing record if they faced the GCC JV teams - let alone their varsity. They went 0-10 in 2019, although to be fair they had 6 DII and DIII playoff teams on the schedule. But on the other hand, does it really matter what league you are in for football if you are 0-10? Like you said, they wouldn't be joining for football. Sure, the basketball would be a huge upgrade if the athletic program is ready to sacrifice so much (football competition, secondary sports, travel costs, etc.) for Chet and the basketball boys. Let's not suggest Brush is a hopeless football program though. They went 8-2 and made the playoffs as recently as 2017. But that was the only season since 2014 they had a winning record.

One thing we know is that Brush applied to the Suburban. So we know they are willing to look outside their current league. Or maybe the WRC is not pleased with the Brush basketball program steamrolling the league and Brush is trying to get out before they are kicked out and replaced. If they are really looking for a league to up the basketball competition big time, stay competitive in the other sports, and stay close geographically - the LEL would be a no brainer for them. Given the choice, I would think the LEL would add Brush and drop Lorain instantly.

The coach at Walsh (Nick Alexander) was an assistant at Mentor for three years with a lot of the coaches that are still currently at Mentor...including a co-offensive coordinator with new Mentor coach Matt Gray. For every sport but football, the GCC makes a ton of sense for Walsh. But the relationships between Alexander and Mentor coaches could hopefully be a tipping point to push them into applying.

If there were two teams that would apply to get it to be a perfect 8, I think Walsh is one. The other could be Lorain if (and only if) the writing is on the wall that the LEL wants Brush over them.
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I'm now on board with Walsh, especially because I can see benefits for both sides:

For the GCC. Well, lets face it, it would at least bring a league that needs to add at least one (though preferably two schools) back to a workable 7. That's about all the incentive needed there.

For Walsh:
1. It's a great landing spot for the minor sports, which overall are competitive, especially on the girls side, which has been mentioned. The GCC fits like a glove for pretty much everything outside football and maybe boys basketball.

2. But boys basketball will be competitive and actually could help continue building the profile there.

3. It could be a way to get out of the shadow of Hoban and St. Vincent-St. Mary. Both those schools are looking at being independent. SVSM already was and the GCC would be the only school that would even consider Hoban due to football (though they are probably near the Ed's/Iggy level in that the cons outweigh the pros). So if Hoban/SVSM are independent and Walsh is able to get into a league like the GCC (which, sorry Fed, is the best football and basketball league in Northeast Ohio), it could be a selling point for kids from Akron who are considering between Walsh/Hoban/SVSM ... Walsh for the most part was a distant third, but being in a league like the GCC against going to an independent school like Hoban/SVSM, could give those families something to think about when making a choice between them.

So, hopefully, Walsh does apply. It's not like they would be leaving a league to do so, even if adding them doesn't add more than a couple of years of stability.

The 8th spot does get tough. Like you said, Brush could probably join the LEL (if it is willing to boot Lorain ... or Shaw, or Warrensville). If it's the latter two, they aren't on the GCC radar. If it's Lorain, they obviously would be a shoe-in for the GCC. If the LEL would boot Warrensville or Shaw, that probably helps Lorain overall. They wouldn't gain much in travel joining the GCC and the LEL would bump a little past the GCC in hoops with the addition of Brush, along with Shaker and Garfield Heights.

Berea and Stow are great fits in terms of size (and Berea is a good fit for travel), but they aren't leaving. There isn't anybody else, unless you are now talking about Eds/Iggy, which wouldn't get the votes.

The GCC could survive with 6 it it absolutely had to, but I think getting to 7 would add a lot of stability (look at the Fed which has been 7 for more than a decade now). Walsh, when looking at all aspects, seems like the school that can afford to say "lets dive in and see where it goes."
 
I follow the GCC a lot. I have seen many GCC games. But living in Erie, I am not close to the scuttlebutt. So why is the GCC potentially losing teams or teams looking to leave. And I only know the GCC from the football side of things. It seems to me it is a great league, so why do teams want to leave?
 
bkmk1 said:
I follow the GCC a lot. I have seen many GCC games. But living in Erie, I am not close to the scuttlebutt. So why is the GCC potentially losing teams or teams looking to leave. And I only know the GCC from the football side of things. It seems to me it is a great league, so why do teams want to leave?
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Depends. But for the most part, teams have left, will leave, or have tried to leave for travel first and foremost. A close second is competition in football. Third would be the suspected racism (according to Shaker) that apparently only exists in OTHER schools they play in the league...or at least some of them.

Like any good and lasting high school conference across the country, it should have a strong combination of similar size, values, athletic accomplishments, and geography. The GCC doesn’t check off all those boxes. Never could.
 
I think sadly it is mostly about wanting easier competition. I don't buy the travel stuff as much as most. There would still.be travel for many who applied to the suburban league. And most big d1 schools will travel in most sports whether it be in conference or not

Mentor plays the most difficult schedules of the gcc teams. We still travel out of conference in most sports. But we can play local teams in the sports not called football out of conference as well some too
 
cardzfan1234 said:
Depends. But for the most part, teams have left, will leave, or have tried to leave for travel first and foremost. A close second is competition in football. Third would be the suspected racism (according to Shaker) that apparently only exists in OTHER schools they play in the league...or at least some of them.

Like any good and lasting high school conference across the country, it should have a strong combination of similar size, values, athletic accomplishments, and geography. The GCC doesn’t check off all those boxes. Never could.
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As for racism. Let's make it clear that Elyria (which would be the most inner city ... even if not the most black or even minority school in the league) did not leave because of racism or even classism. It was because of what Cardz put out first. Elyria got in with a league that was much closer in geography ... and one that it could compete better, even if it is a lot less diverse both racially and socioecomically than the GCC.

Shaker is Shaker. There were reasons to leave, they decided to tout the last of the reasons first. ... With that, I'm not going to say they lied, or that leaving wasn't the right decision. But they decided to go out by painting a broad brush. And I'm guessing they'll probably hear a lot worse being the "rich" "white school" (even if it's 40 something percent black) in the LEL, than they heard in the GCC. But they have geography, which, like Elyria also had, which should've been what was put out for the reason for leaving ... even though with both schools, we know it was really not being competitive overall.
 
Don't want to bet a dead horse here, but ...

Elyria has gone from the LEL to the Pioneer to the NOC (at its advent) to the GCC (at its advent) to now the SWC in basically a 20-25 year stretch. The choice to go from the GCC to the NOC was kind of a best of what was out there move when the NOC crashed. The SWC, especially as presently structured is a much better fit for them from (1) travel (2) football competitiveness (3) all-sport competitiveness. You can quibble over the order of 1 & 2, but it's those factors - especially here in Ohio when it comes to conferences.

Shaker was in the LEL for years and then jumped into the NOC about halfway into its ~10 years of existence. Shift from LEL to NOC came as the LEL was basically becoming an inner-ring suburb league, and the NOC was a better fit for their sports program as a whole. The move to the GCC was one of well there's no better fit, so that's where we are. I'm not going to say racial/class issues didn't happen b/n Shaker and their GCC brethren, but to say that's the primary reason of a conference realignment is unreasonable; it's also realistic to say racial/class issues will happen b/n Shaker and their LEL peers. Shaker is a relatively unique school system in the Cleveland area in terms of its racial and socioeconomic dynamics, though the sports teams are somewhat self-segregating. I think most reasonable people would say the real reasons for Shaker shifting back to the LEL are football competitiveness and travel containment with all-sport competitiveness and race/socioeconomic as secondary.

Broadly speaking it will be hard for a league like the GCC to be stable due to it being kind of a "catch-all" type league, in this case of schools that are too big in terms of enrollment for their peers. The revolving door for leagues here in Ohio has been centered mostly with football competitiveness and geography as primary drivers
 
Bucksman hit the nail on the head with regards to Shaker, especially calling out that their sports seem to be self contained. Going to a Shaker basketball game is like going to a Black Lives Matter meeting complete with back turning while the National Anthem is being played, go to a Field Hockey game and it's a social event with play being stopped while Labs try to chase the ball on the field.

The other option I have advocated for is sport specific Leagues. Hockey does it, why not all other team sports?
 
Auggie said:
Bucksman hit the nail on the head with regards to Shaker, especially calling out that their sports seem to be self contained. Going to a Shaker basketball game is like going to a Black Lives Matter meeting complete with back turning while the National Anthem is being played, go to a Field Hockey game and it's a social event with play being stopped while Labs try to chase the ball on the field.

The other option I have advocated for is sport specific Leagues. Hockey does it, why not all other team sports?
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I will defend Shaker here. Granted it was only one game but I did not see anybody turning their back during the anthem this past year when Medina was out there. Sure some kids sat and were basically aloof to it being played but you will pretty much get that anywhere. And personally, while I always stand, I don't see that as a huge issue regardless, but that's not something I care to debate. Just my personal opinion.

But overall, Bucksman and you are most likely correct in that Shaker (and Cleveland Heights to a lesser degree) are pretty much self segregated. I think Shaker had one white kid in the basketball program 9-12. I'm guessing baseball, hockey, lacrosse, etc., it's the opposite (though I don't follow those sports enough to say so definitively).
 
SVillegrad said:
I will defend Shaker here. Granted it was only one game but I did not see anybody turning their back during the anthem this past year when Medina was out there. Sure some kids sat and were basically aloof to it being played but you will pretty much get that anywhere. And personally, while I always stand, I don't see that as a huge issue regardless, but that's not something I care to debate. Just my personal opinion.

But overall, Bucksman and you are most likely correct in that Shaker (and Cleveland Heights to a lesser degree) are pretty much self segregated. I think Shaker had one white kid in the basketball program 9-12. I'm guessing baseball, hockey, lacrosse, etc., it's the opposite (though I don't follow those sports enough to say so definitively).
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I've definitely seen shaker kids being disrespectful during the anthem, turning their backs etc. And we've played them a lot more than the westside schools.

But I'll support you in the LEL treatment that will come to them despite having a diverse school. Not as bad as us though being way more white. We dealt with plenty in the lel. It's just only reported on and a story when the minority group makes the claims or received the treatment. When the lel fans throw bricks and rocks at our school buses it's just ho hum.

The Shaker claims to me were bogus though. Sure things can be said to them. I'm sure their kids said plenty as well. I mean their basketball fans were talking a lot of trash at mentor last year. Glad we sent them out with a loss

I'll still miss basketball with them and I liked their football stadium. But they lost a lot of respect from me and others going out the way they did. They left because they were a bottom feeder athletic program. They'll fit in well in the LEL
 
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SVillegrad said:
But overall, Bucksman and you are most likely correct in that Shaker (and Cleveland Heights to a lesser degree) are pretty much self segregated. I think Shaker had one white kid in the basketball program 9-12. I'm guessing baseball, hockey, lacrosse, etc., it's the opposite (though I don't follow those sports enough to say so definitively).
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As a Shaker grad, I will have to agree. The Shaker athletic programs have been self segregated since I went to HS. During my last two years (Grad. 2010) you could count on one hand the amount of white guys on the football team, and it has been like that for quite some time since.

And also, I do not like them leaving the GCC for the Lake Erie League at all. I feel like it's a cop out that the program isn't as good as the others. (But strange thing, Shaker has beaten every GCC team in football at least once except for Mentor (the win over Solon in '17 was a shocker) It makes sense for basketball, and to a lesser extent, it's good to see the Shaker-Cleveland Heights rivalry return, but outside of that, I don't like the move.

Especially NOT for baseball, they're gonna win every single title in the LEL in that sport from here on in.
 
Mr. Red Raider said:
As a Shaker grad, I will have to agree. The Shaker athletic programs have been self segregated since I went to HS. During my last two years (Grad. 2010) you could count on one hand the amount of white guys on the football team, and it has been like that for quite some time since.

And also, I do not like them leaving the GCC for the Lake Erie League at all. I feel like it's a cop out that the program isn't as good as the others. (But strange thing, Shaker has beaten every GCC team in football at least once except for Mentor (the win over Solon in '17 was a shocker) It makes sense for basketball, and to a lesser extent, it's good to see the Shaker-Cleveland Heights rivalry return, but outside of that, I don't like the move.

Especially NOT for baseball, they're gonna win every single title in the LEL in that sport from here on in.
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The only thing I'll disagree with is that it was good for basketball. Shaker basketball did just fine in the GCC. Look at this year where they, after beating a very good McKinley team handily in the first regional semi, was about to play Mentor (which outlasted Medina in a 2 OT classic in the other semifinal) for a trip to Columbus. Shaker was third in the league and was one game away from the state final four. The GCC had three of the four teams in the Cleveland regional. The LEL had zero. The GCC, partly due to Shaker, has always had a team in the regional finals, if not the final four.

Edit: to be fair, Lorain (LEL) did make the Toledo regional.

Good for football. Definitely. Good for basketball, a wash at best. Good for just about every other program... nope. Shaker is taking a huge step down, but will rack up overall league titles across the board. So I guess there is that??
 
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As for Shaker students (and others) during the National Anthem - I concur with Auggie's experience. I found their behavior during the anthem to be incredibly disrespectful. While I don't agree with the actions of some professional athletes to kneel during the anthem in year's past - at least I knew they were standing/kneeling for something. When the home side of the Shaker gym was filled with mostly teens/adults ignoring that time and talking rather loudly to the people around them - that is not standing up for anything. That is not a quiet protest. That is something else I would rather not get into. I too don't want this thread to veer off into how Shaker behaves at a basketball game. But from my experience, I had to state my peace.

As for Shaker leaving the GCC...fine. They had little ability at competing in football. This is what it is all about. One could argue that they have the athletes to at least be middle of the pack in the GCC. The potential is there. If a dynamic (and dare I say "inviting") leader/coach like Ginn or Rotsky had spent a decade at Shaker, you would expect them to have been a consistent playoff team like Glenville, Maple, Cleveland Heights, and Euclid have been under those coaches.

Basketball is a wash, I agree with SVillegrad. But if given the choice between a strong league with much closer area schools or having fake league rivalries with schools their community could care less about (Medina, Mentor) - they are better off with the LEL.

My question is why did Shaker leave the LEL for the NOC to begin with? What has changed about Shaker or the league to make it Ok for them to return?
 
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