D7 R27 2025

You’re probably the first person from yer part of the state I’ve encountered to have said something as gracious as you did on Francis. No disrespect intended — just a polite observation in the ten years and change of the (now-previous) papacy.

My RCs who differ on Francis, no hard feelings (after all… greater Lancaster isn’t exactly Boston when it comes to the preference of good works in living Catholic and general social viewpoints.) The amount of non-RCs with their opinions then and now, whole other story IMO.

I said earlier in this thread that it’ll probably be Cardinal Tagle. Back then I was thinking it’d be a classic (read: painstaking, prolonged and ultimately ‘not pretty’) rivalry in the final ballots between him and Archbishop Besungu. Along the lines of “torch-carrier versus an opposite to Francis.” It seems like Besungu might not have the consolidation of either the African bloc nor the conservative votes.

Benedict XVI stepped down my junior year of HS. In Theology class, we got derailed on learning Conclave procedure because of a) like you mentioned, it was an unusual situation, b) my whole class was already kind of in anticipation and awe of there possibly being a black pope, and c) by the time Francis was selected our teacher was so thoroughly… uh… ‘not thrilled’ with that selection that it basically turned into the below panel henceforth.

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I'm right around your age and since I went to public school we didn't discuss it in school but we had a whole couple religion classes on what the significance was of Benedict stepping down and how this might create a "clash of ideas" within the church with 2 popes alive at the same time. Honestly we were kind of right back then about that. There's definitely a clash.

The one big sticking point I have about Francis is in his desire to keep his sweet old man persona he was often called lukewarm, progressive, etc. I think he should have been more straight forward on his views then he let on. A lot of that was due to media framing and taking a lot of his words out of context and then a lot of people out in my area jumped on the headlines even though they know the media lies about a lot of stuff to push a narrative. Don't get me wrong the man had a socialist viewpoint on distribution of wealth which was bad, and lately his views on essentially thinking ALL illegal immigrants are actual needy migrants that need sheltering was shotty at best and neglected the fact that the Bible gives the US government explicit authority to control its borders.

However the things he caught the flack for the most was on marriage, LGBT issues, and other social issues. When you look at what he actually said, he didn't change any of what the Church teaches on those things already, no matter how much the media tried to frame it as such. I mean he flat out told a journalist "NO!" when asked if women will ever be ordained. He said God and therefore as an extension he can not bless sin when discussing LGBT marriages, etc.

I think a lot of people who claimed he was leading people astray from Church teaching didn't actually dig into what he was saying. His "who am I to judge" line was taken way over the top because he's right. He's just a man, he can't judge where a person's actions will send them. All he can say it's a sin which he did and move on. There's nothing he can really do at that point. You can educate but after you've educated, if they continue to do it, it's on them at this point. So yeah I disagreed a lot with Pope Francis on his worldview but he definitely got a lot more crap then he deserved. I'm interested to see where the conclave goes.
 
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I'm right around your age and since I went to public school we didn't discuss it in school but we had a whole couple religion classes on what the significance was of Benedict stepping down and how this might create a "clash of ideas" within the church with 2 popes alive at the same time. Honestly we were kind of right back then about that. There's definitely a clash.

The one big sticking point I have about Francis is in his desire to keep his sweet old man persona he was often called lukewarm, progressive, etc. I think he should have been more straight forward on his views then he let on. A lot of that was due to media framing and taking a lot of his words out of context and then a lot of people out in my area jumped on the headlines even though they know the media lies about a lot of stuff to push a narrative. Don't get me wrong the man had a socialist viewpoint on distribution of wealth which was bad, and lately his views on essentially thinking ALL illegal immigrants are actual needy migrants that need sheltering was shotty at best and neglected the fact that the Bible gives the US government explicit authority to control its borders.

However the things he caught the flack for the most was on marriage, LGBT issues, and other social issues. When you look at what he actually said, he didn't change any of what the Church teaches on those things already, no matter how much the media tried to frame it as such. I mean he flat out told a journalist "NO!" when asked if women will ever be ordained. He said God and therefore as an extension he can not bless sin when discussing LGBT marriages, etc.

I think a lot of people who claimed he was leading people astray from Church teaching didn't actually dig into what he was saying. His "who am I to judge" line was taken way over the top because he's right. He's just a man, he can't judge where a person's actions will send them. All he can say it's a sin which he did and move on. There's nothing he can really do at that point. You can educate but after you've educated, if they continue to do it, it's on them at this point. So yeah I disagreed a lot with Pope Francis on his worldview but he definitely got a lot more crap then he deserved. I'm interested to see where the conclave goes.
I think what many of us RCs (myself included) tend to forget is when we look at the Popes today and in retrospect is, post-Vatican II, there isn’t much frame of reference for how to compare/contrast how we see them individually. (Work with me here.)

Paul VI — there’s kind of an argument he was progressive? I would venture to guess the vast majority of RC’s under 50 don’t recollect much of him.

JP1 — what’s understood doesn’t need to be explained.

JP2 — conservative, yes, but admirable in his defense of Vatican II. Even for progressives like me, he was very admirable in the general interfaith mission he promoted.

I think what unraveled the ball of yarn leading to heightened polarization in the American faithful is the intersection of four things: the final year or so of JP2’s papacy, the rising tide of contemporary social issues as characterized from a progressive view point (LGBT, role of women in the church etc), the sudden increase of the American church as a political actor, and the general… lack of resolution seemed to be proffered by Benedict XVI, if not just a general lack of using platform?

Blessed JP2 was known to have lost some of his faculties in his final years. Sad, but true. Those final years saw the Global War on Terror, the precipice of gay marriage (Massachusetts was the first to legalize it in 2004), and of course all that was unearthed by the Boston Globe in 2002. Individually, those are all tough waters for the Church to navigate without pissing their own people off. Put together, it wasn’t ideal to say the least. The former two create divergence across the board to a general degree, the latter just causes people to lose faith in the institution.

There isn’t wisdom in a layperson like me to armchair QB what higher men of God and their credentials ought to have done in terms of “meeting the world” as is, no. But you look at Benedict XVI and he… just isn’t known for much speaking/action to JP2 (big shoes to fill) nor Francis. Sound, accomplished theologian? Yes. Active voice and the maker of best decisions throughout the main chunk of his papacy? Perhaps not. In respect to him, stepping down was probably a recognition on his part that the Church couldn’t afford to have him serve deep into his 80’s or even 90’s simply because of the risk he’d be incapacitated and unable to lead. That, or the state of the Church did require continuous leadership at a level far beyond what could reasonably be expected of someone at (let’s be frank) significantly old age. Or both?

So it’s two consecutive papacies of a general dogma, both in the Church teaching and (of course) consequent analog to the American political system, spanning 45 years. That and Vatican II define basically the majority of still-living Catholic memory in the States. Benedict XVI not being much of a ‘boat-rocker’ (so to speak) I think went largely unnoticed in his Papacy. That carrying being taken for granted, at least by those who later think Francis was a bad pope (among other possible derogations)? I think that’s fair to say.

— — —

When Francis became Pope, it was… interesting? Catholic schools, ironically enough, are not required to wholesale acknowledge the doctrine of papal infallibility to the extents one would presume as it relates to Catechizing. There is, to a degree, freedom (as long as it unequivocally follows Church teaching.)

So it was, an experience to say the least, to have a senior year of Theology not discussing the merits and incorporation of the new Pope… but, instead… Benedict XVI’s “dictatorship of relativism” being the sticking point day-in, day-out. Like, we burned probably two months of that course constantly getting brick-walled on every dissenting/slight disagree/“yes, but?” we had to offer. What’s the point of the tuition, for that matter our time that can be spent learning something else, if it’s just constant pointing to that? Hell, my brother and I got C-‘s on our Capstones (argue one side or the other on a social issue, what does the church have to say about it? Use props, too) because we picked “for the legalization of marijuana” (Colorado had just greenlit it by then), followed the rubric, defended our position and did bring in props — a pewter dish (tray), rolled up single-ply toilet paper stuffed with oregano, oregano in a clump inside the tray, and rockwool grow cubes. Also got detention for that, too.

But getting back to the point of Francis/first year and beyond… I think it just is hard for the next Pope to strike the balance of a) upholding Church teaching without compromise, and b) getting more voice and connection drawn to the western Catholics who will be their age-majority 20-25 years from now (e.g. our generation.) We both know that Mercer County is Major League Catholicism, we know that trying to ‘mend’ the various community cohorts of RCs across different strata (age, political, social, geographic — e.g. urban/suburban versus exurban versus rural) is a fool’s errand in and of itself. Not to mention… not exactly a high priority for the next Pontiff (to a degree this also depends on units like the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.)

If it can reconcile some differences, even if it means how two different people can see a Pope or see the flaw in how others’ characterize a Pope to the extents many bash Francis… it’s a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but better.
 
I think what many of us RCs (myself included) tend to forget is when we look at the Popes today and in retrospect is, post-Vatican II, there isn’t much frame of reference for how to compare/contrast how we see them individually. (Work with me here.)

Paul VI — there’s kind of an argument he was progressive? I would venture to guess the vast majority of RC’s under 50 don’t recollect much of him.

JP1 — what’s understood doesn’t need to be explained.

JP2 — conservative, yes, but admirable in his defense of Vatican II. Even for progressives like me, he was very admirable in the general interfaith mission he promoted.

I think what unraveled the ball of yarn leading to heightened polarization in the American faithful is the intersection of four things: the final year or so of JP2’s papacy, the rising tide of contemporary social issues as characterized from a progressive view point (LGBT, role of women in the church etc), the sudden increase of the American church as a political actor, and the general… lack of resolution seemed to be proffered by Benedict XVI, if not just a general lack of using platform?

Blessed JP2 was known to have lost some of his faculties in his final years. Sad, but true. Those final years saw the Global War on Terror, the precipice of gay marriage (Massachusetts was the first to legalize it in 2004), and of course all that was unearthed by the Boston Globe in 2002. Individually, those are all tough waters for the Church to navigate without pissing their own people off. Put together, it wasn’t ideal to say the least. The former two create divergence across the board to a general degree, the latter just causes people to lose faith in the institution.

There isn’t wisdom in a layperson like me to armchair QB what higher men of God and their credentials ought to have done in terms of “meeting the world” as is, no. But you look at Benedict XVI and he… just isn’t known for much speaking/action to JP2 (big shoes to fill) nor Francis. Sound, accomplished theologian? Yes. Active voice and the maker of best decisions throughout the main chunk of his papacy? Perhaps not. In respect to him, stepping down was probably a recognition on his part that the Church couldn’t afford to have him serve deep into his 80’s or even 90’s simply because of the risk he’d be incapacitated and unable to lead. That, or the state of the Church did require continuous leadership at a level far beyond what could reasonably be expected of someone at (let’s be frank) significantly old age. Or both?

So it’s two consecutive papacies of a general dogma, both in the Church teaching and (of course) consequent analog to the American political system, spanning 45 years. That and Vatican II define basically the majority of still-living Catholic memory in the States. Benedict XVI not being much of a ‘boat-rocker’ (so to speak) I think went largely unnoticed in his Papacy. That carrying being taken for granted, at least by those who later think Francis was a bad pope (among other possible derogations)? I think that’s fair to say.

— — —

When Francis became Pope, it was… interesting? Catholic schools, ironically enough, are not required to wholesale acknowledge the doctrine of papal infallibility to the extents one would presume as it relates to Catechizing. There is, to a degree, freedom (as long as it unequivocally follows Church teaching.)

So it was, an experience to say the least, to have a senior year of Theology not discussing the merits and incorporation of the new Pope… but, instead… Benedict XVI’s “dictatorship of relativism” being the sticking point day-in, day-out. Like, we burned probably two months of that course constantly getting brick-walled on every dissenting/slight disagree/“yes, but?” we had to offer. What’s the point of the tuition, for that matter our time that can be spent learning something else, if it’s just constant pointing to that? Hell, my brother and I got C-‘s on our Capstones (argue one side or the other on a social issue, what does the church have to say about it? Use props, too) because we picked “for the legalization of marijuana” (Colorado had just greenlit it by then), followed the rubric, defended our position and did bring in props — a pewter dish (tray), rolled up single-ply toilet paper stuffed with oregano, oregano in a clump inside the tray, and rockwool grow cubes. Also got detention for that, too.

But getting back to the point of Francis/first year and beyond… I think it just is hard for the next Pope to strike the balance of a) upholding Church teaching without compromise, and b) getting more voice and connection drawn to the western Catholics who will be their age-majority 20-25 years from now (e.g. our generation.) We both know that Mercer County is Major League Catholicism, we know that trying to ‘mend’ the various community cohorts of RCs across different strata (age, political, social, geographic — e.g. urban/suburban versus exurban versus rural) is a fool’s errand in and of itself. Not to mention… not exactly a high priority for the next Pontiff (to a degree this also depends on units like the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.)

If it can reconcile some differences, even if it means how two different people can see a Pope or see the flaw in how others’ characterize a Pope to the extents many bash Francis… it’s a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but better.
All great thoughts. To add a piece to the end is that people outside the RC faith see the pomp and celebration surrounding the pope as almost a form of worship. What many outside the church and even inside it fail to recognize at times is that the Popes are all human beings in the apostolic succession back to St Peter. He has infallibility and the ability to speak ex cathedra but it has been hardly ever used before. People who disagreed with him within the church removed the humanity aspect from him where we all may have disagreements on how to handle social issues for example and crowned him essentially the devil incarnate. People outside the church do the same thing just because he's the head of the RCC and they think we're all going to hell but that's just because they can't argue theologically with us and don't like it 😉
 
Way too early top 4:
1: Danville- the workhorse freshman comes back as do a few other key pieces for the Blue Devils. This is Danville's region to lose.

2: Trimble- As if you can't tell I'm biased already View attachment 71018. We return some key pieces who saw a lot of playing time. Hopefully the tide turns and the Tomcats are back to what they were just a few short years ago.

3: Eastern- Ah, here we go again. The Eagles return a good bit from this year's runner up team. Do they build off the success or come off the 2 year high like the 2023-2024 Bengals?

4: Newark Catholic- The Green Wave are coming off a 1-9 season, but 10 games under a young squad will help them this year. The Green Wave will make the playoffs, as a lower seed, and will cause some noise.
I’m curious what Strasburg could be this season, memory serves they only had 4 seniors on the team and the top players were sophomore and juniors. Lost some close games last season could be a team that might surprise
 
All great thoughts. To add a piece to the end is that people outside the RC faith see the pomp and celebration surrounding the pope as almost a form of worship. What many outside the church and even inside it fail to recognize at times is that the Popes are all human beings in the apostolic succession back to St Peter. He has infallibility and the ability to speak ex cathedra but it has been hardly ever used before. People who disagreed with him within the church removed the humanity aspect from him where we all may have disagreements on how to handle social issues for example and crowned him essentially the devil incarnate. People outside the church do the same thing just because he's the head of the RCC and they think we're all going to hell but that's just because they can't argue theologically with us and don't like it 😉
IMG_0217.png
 
I’m curious what Strasburg could be this season, memory serves they only had 4 seniors on the team and the top players were sophomore and juniors. Lost some close games last season could be a team that might surprise
It’s possible they might not be in R27 this coming year (them or SCC.) Big thing will be not losing momentum there, at a place where it is easy to lose momentum.
 
I’m curious what Strasburg could be this season, memory serves they only had 4 seniors on the team and the top players were sophomore and juniors. Lost some close games last season could be a team that might surprise
Historically not strong. Their last winning season came in 2010. That doesn't mean jack squat by week 1, though. I'd say anywhere from 5-5 to 6-4. I don't see them beating Buckeye Trail, Malvern or Sandy Valley. They very well could start out 4-0. Don't know what Steuby CC lost. 0 clue about Windham or Leetonia. Conotton Valley lost half of their roster if I'm correct. Time will tell. I can see 5-5 or 6-4.
 
Historically not strong. Their last winning season came in 2010. That doesn't mean jack squat by week 1, though. I'd say anywhere from 5-5 to 6-4. I don't see them beating Buckeye Trail, Malvern or Sandy Valley. They very well could start out 4-0. Don't know what Steuby CC lost. 0 clue about Windham or Leetonia. Conotton Valley lost half of their roster if I'm correct. Time will tell. I can see 5-5 or 6-4.
Yeah CV lost like 10-11 seniors think they return a couple really nice WRs but going to be tough replacing that QB. I think SCC lost a good bit as well. I was thinking that 6-4 range for Strasburg also. Return some talent, nice WR, big TE and the QB was a sophomore.
 
Yeah CV lost like 10-11 seniors think they return a couple really nice WRs but going to be tough replacing that QB. I think SCC lost a good bit as well. I was thinking that 6-4 range for Strasburg also. Return some talent, nice WR, big TE and the QB was a sophomore.
I can say with 75% confidence that they'll host a game in week 11.
 
Now will be interesting to see how they do in the playoffs
Why’s that? Just went into a region with MAC schools the best conference in Ohio. I don’t believe that takes away from anything that was accomplished last year. Not a team in the area who would get moved like that and not have a difficult time. Just like Waverly finally getting moved out of R16 finally let them matchup with a team they could beat. Should be interesting well enjoy guys, looks like it’ll be Danville again in this region. Guess I’m outa this thread
 
Should be interesting well enjoy guys, looks like it’ll be Danville again in this region. Guess I’m outa this thread
IMO, Hillsdale will win R27. They are absolutely loaded still. Only lost a handful of kids. Their playmakers all return.
 
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