D2 State Appearances

Newton's Third

Active member
Thanks. This is interesting. How far back did you research? I know Pickerington had several D2 appearances in the 70's when I first started coaching before becoming D1. I'm sure there are others like that. I assume Tallmadge went D1 after their 4 D2 appearances since it's been 32 years since a D2 appearance.

Post-state meet I list consecutive top 10 state finishes. I believe making it to state shows regional success only but finishing in the top 10 without missing a year shows some state-wide consistency. A region can be very weak but to be top 10 at state you cannot have a hiccup. It is not intended to prove or establish anything, but is another way of showing year-in-year out success. As a coach I would rather win 2-3 state titles than finish top 10 in several consecutive years. For instance I would take Woodridge's multiple titles over Bay's many more appearances, but both show exceptional success. Then there is Minster girls in which 3rd or 5th at state are their rebuilding years.

Please clue me in on Waynesville. I have not coached in several years and was D1 when I did so I am not familiar with them at all but they have a strong boys and girls team this year so are doing something right. I want to be a fan of all teams.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Marlington boys is one of those teams that the number of state appearances does not really indicate how good they have been.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Marlington boys is one of those teams that the number of state appearances does not really indicate how good they have been.
Some programs do great with individuals but don't get the big numbers that you often see associated with the teams that have sustained success like Woodridge or Bay. Marlington is one of those programs. They're unlikely to ever have 20+ guys on their roster.
 

bgtri11

Member
Carroll's 16 State team appearances include 1 year qualifying in D1 (1998). They have made it as a team to the State meet in D2 15 of the last 18 years being in D2. They were D1 from 1995 until 2004, 2009-2010, and 2017-2018.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Where is the girls chart? Combined boys and girls chart?
Repeat after me: "I can make a chart, too. I can make a chart, too. I can make a chart, too."

It's not that difficult. There may be some inaccuracies, or it may not be updated to include the past couple years which is easy enough to look up and add, but the OHSAA has the list of state appearances for each school on its XC page.

Perhaps I'll get to it later tonight, but I'll be busy for the next couple hours.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I wonder how many over the D3 line they are. How close are the girls to becoming D2?
D3 is currently 156 girls and below. The Big Orange has 146 girls which ties them with a few other schools that also fielded XC teams at the time the current numbers were taken. There were 18 schools in girls D3 that had more girls than WLS and fielded XC teams at the time the current numbers were taken.

WLS had 4 more boys than the D3 cut-off that is currently being used.

If I saw correctly, the OHSAA will use the current batch of enrollment numbers for at least 1 more year due to COVID making it difficult to do proper headcounts. In recent years, the OHSAA has used the Ohio Department of Education's EMIS headcount numbers that are taken during the 1st week of October in each even-numbered year.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
Will they use the number of teams that finished 5 at district for divisional alignment? I can't recall which district but I was looking at some results and there were many teams that either did not show up or did not finish 5. I assume this is similar for many districts. Will they hold with the number of teams they used for this year since they are using the same enrollment numbers?
 

yj_runfan

Well-known member
Will they use the number of teams that finished 5 at district for divisional alignment? I can't recall which district but I was looking at some results and there were many teams that either did not show up or did not finish 5. I assume this is similar for many districts. Will they hold with the number of teams they used for this year since they are using the same enrollment numbers?
I don’t see why the number of teams that didn’t show this year should affect anything. Most of those schools were probably not even open or open part time.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
Because the divisional alignment for each sport is determined by how many teams they field, divided by how many divisions. XC only counts teams that finish 5 runners at the district meets. Each year there are teams that either do not bother to attend district or don't finish 5 runners. These teams are not included in the count prior to dividing by the 3 divisions. If substancially more teams do not finish 5 at district, it could cause a major shake-up for teams near the bottom of D1, both ends of D2, or the top of D3. These figures of finishing teams also determine how many advance from each district, the need for 1-2-3 races for districts, and other organizational purposes.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Will they use the number of teams that finished 5 at district for divisional alignment? I can't recall which district but I was looking at some results and there were many teams that either did not show up or did not finish 5. I assume this is similar for many districts. Will they hold with the number of teams they used for this year since they are using the same enrollment numbers?
That is a fine question, but I do not know the answer.

I can tell you in the NE District, there were only 28 girls teams in DIII that scored at the district meets. 14 of them advanced to regionals. There were 35 boys teams in DIII that scored at the district meets. 13 of them advanced to regionals. Admittedly, the NE is loaded with far more DI and DII schools, but the DIII schools must do a better job of getting 5 across the finish line at the district meet.

When I began lurking on HS message boards in the mid '00s, I recall the SE district only getting 1 team and 4 individual qualifiers to regionals for DIII girls. A quick glance at old regional results indicates that was 2005 and 2006. A major push was made within the SE to get the coaches to realize the importance of putting "5 on the line" because at the time, the number of teams was based on how many had 5 at the starting line at the district meet as opposed to how many teams had 5 runners finish. Some teams would just have kids walk the race or pull out after 1 mile. Whatever it took, they started doing it and got their allotment of regional qualifiers to increase.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
Divisions yes. I am not sure what year Ohio is on in that regard. Is it new next year or year-after. If next year I would thnk they would keep everything as is due to the virus implications.

The number of district races, qualifiers, and other similar stuff are adjusted yearly and determined by district teams finishing 5 runners. Those not finishing 5 or did not show up for district works against that district for the next year's qualifier numbers.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
That is a fine question, but I do not know the answer.

I can tell you in the NE District, there were only 28 girls teams in DIII that scored at the district meets. 14 of them advanced to regionals. There were 35 boys teams in DIII that scored at the district meets. 13 of them advanced to regionals. Admittedly, the NE is loaded with far more DI and DII schools, but the DIII schools must do a better job of getting 5 across the finish line at the district meet.

When I began lurking on HS message boards in the mid '00s, I recall the SE district only getting 1 team and 4 individual qualifiers to regionals for DIII girls. A quick glance at old regional results indicates that was 2005 and 2006. A major push was made within the SE to get the coaches to realize the importance of putting "5 on the line" because at the time, the number of teams was based on how many had 5 at the starting line at the district meet as opposed to how many teams had 5 runners finish. Some teams would just have kids walk the race or pull out after 1 mile. Whatever it took, they started doing it and got their allotment of regional qualifiers to increase.
NW had a D3 Girls race that 3 of the 5 moved to regional meet.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Repeat after me: "I can make a chart, too. I can make a chart, too. I can make a chart, too."

It's not that difficult. There may be some inaccuracies, or it may not be updated to include the past couple years which is easy enough to look up and add, but the OHSAA has the list of state appearances for each school on its XC page.

Perhaps I'll get to it later tonight, but I'll be busy for the next couple hours.
I'm just messing around, and I can't make a chart. My brain is fried! I just want to look at pretty things.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
NW had a D3 Girls race that 3 of the 5 moved to regional meet.
That is because the rest of the field did not show. They will not get that situation next year because OHSAA will treat that district as though those teams that didn't show do not exist next year. UNLESS they do not use the virus tainted numbers for those things for one year. That district could end up with 28-30 teams or more next year with qualifier numbers for 14-15 teams. This is because half of them did not exist under OHSAA protocol. I think they will suspend those adjustments for a year but I am usually wrong more than I am right.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Don't divisions, allocations, and that type of stuff normally only change in count years?
Divisions? Yes since XC is not a sport where competitive balance adjustments are applied.
Allocations? Numbers of teams competing at each regional and number of teams going from regional to state? Yes.

What can be changed every year though is how many teams and individuals quality from a district site to the regional. The District Boards appear able to tweak that stuff from year to year if needed. For example, NE District sends 24 DI teams or however many to regionals. In year 1, the NE Board could decide 8 teams will come from Site A, 8 from Site B, and 8 from Site C. However, in year 2 of the cycle, they might make changes based on how many teams existed the previous year and decide that Site A will only get 7 teams to regionals, Site B will get 9, and Site C will get 8.

The NE revamped its entire district meet system this year which was year 2 of the current enrollment cycle, and it would've been even more different had COVID guidelines not forced them to run a 3rd district site to limit race sizes and crowd sizes. The original plan was to run only 2 district sites with various other changes from previous seasons.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
It's 1:30am. I'm tired. I don't care how sloppy the formatting is. If no number is shown after the year of the program's 1st state berth, then the program has not won a team title yet. Enjoy.

D2 Girls Total Consecutive Since '10 1st Berth Golds
Athens 7 1 6 1984
Bexley 12 5 6 1978
Buckeye Valley 6 4 4 2004
Cloverleaf 6 1 2 1984
Eaton 5 1 2 1988
Fredericktown 8 1 5 2000
Galion 1 1 1 2020
Granville 14 11 11 1988 1
Hathaway Brown 1 1 1 2020
Hawken 4 1 3 2001
Jonathan Alder 2 1 2 2018
Lexington 13 9 10 2002 4
Lima Shawnee 7 1 1 1980 1
Minerva 12 6 8 2000
Oakwood 8 3 7 2006
Revere 8 1 1 1989
St. V-M 12 12 11 2009 5
Wauseon 8 1 4 1982
Waynesville 1 1 1 2020
Woodridge 22 16 11 1990 2
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Heck, I could have done that!

My dad used to tell me that it's not easy to make it to the state meet. There are a lot of schools that have never made it as a team and many that haven't even had a single individual make it. I used to design cafeterias and supply equipment to schools, so I would go to a lot of schools each year. I would check out record boards for T&F and CC and it did amaze me how many did not have the success I was used to.

Galion girls making it for the first time is one I would not have guessed. Jonathan Alder only their second amazes me.

Woodridge has ripped of 16 straight. I cannot tell you how bad the team was the year or two before they started this run. So, there is hope for everyone. 16 seasons ago, they had a good class of Freshmen. The kids that run now have no idea why they do some of the things they do. 16 seasons ago a few girls would run in the snow and cold before basketball practice and now it's second nature for many kids to stay after school and brave the elements and train.

The boys too. They had a lot of talent, but there was twin brothers that came from a family of the hardest working runners I've ever seen. The more talented kids were forced to work hard out of pride to not just be outworked. Now, nearly all the kids put the work in. They don't know any other way.

You know Minster girls are the same. They don't know any other way.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
IIRC, all the D2 girls teams that have won state titles since 2010 are in this race: St. V-M, Granville, Lexington, and Woodridge.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Hoping for a top 5 finish from Woodridge. That would be a good progression for them from 9th last year. (Please let them be 9th last year, I should probably take 20 seconds and check. Too lazy.)
 

yj_runfan

Well-known member
Heck, I could have done that!

My dad used to tell me that it's not easy to make it to the state meet. There are a lot of schools that have never made it as a team and many that haven't even had a single individual make it. I used to design cafeterias and supply equipment to schools, so I would go to a lot of schools each year. I would check out record boards for T&F and CC and it did amaze me how many did not have the success I was used to.

Galion girls making it for the first time is one I would not have guessed. Jonathan Alder only their second amazes me.

Woodridge has ripped of 16 straight. I cannot tell you how bad the team was the year or two before they started this run. So, there is hope for everyone. 16 seasons ago, they had a good class of Freshmen. The kids that run now have no idea why they do some of the things they do. 16 seasons ago a few girls would run in the snow and cold before basketball practice and now it's second nature for many kids to stay after school and brave the elements and train.

The boys too. They had a lot of talent, but there was twin brothers that came from a family of the hardest working runners I've ever seen. The more talented kids were forced to work hard out of pride to not just be outworked. Now, nearly all the kids put the work in. They don't know any other way.

You know Minster girls are the same. They don't know any other way.
When my oldest son started running for Taylor they only had one girl on the cross country team. Three years later they won the D2 title.

The girls have only made state three times. They finished first, second and first. That's a pretty good average.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
When my oldest son started running for Taylor they only had one girl on the cross country team. Three years later they won the D2 title.

The girls have only made state three times. They finished first, second and first. That's a pretty good average.
How do you explain that? 1st, 2nd, 1st, yet only 3 times advancing past regional? I'm just curious on your view on this.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
When my oldest son started running for Taylor they only had one girl on the cross country team. Three years later they won the D2 title.

The girls have only made state three times. They finished first, second and first. That's a pretty good average.
That's unreal. Once in a lifetime group of kids I guess.
 
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