Baseball to fall?

thavoice

Well-known member
I meant that I thought a team could only have a set number of players from high school on the same summer team with high school coaches involved. I must have been mistaken.
For fall ball, yeah. Only 4 per school.no matter whom is coaching.

Summer...free for all as long as school sanctioned coaches are ten days or less.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
I heard Minster, FR and CW are all going to be down next year......

In the past we had some kids kick the tires on playing on money teams. Most come back quickly for a few reasons (their words)
1. Not getting to play the positions they will on the HS team.
2. Didn't like how everyone was in it just for themselves.
3. Travel. Did not allow for them to work, or participate in their football and or basketball workouts.
4. Coaching. This one made me happy. Said they had a few practices and instructioj was not up to snuff.


But I digress
I would still pick travel over ACME but I think that is more due to how our coach handled it leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I would still pick travel over ACME but I think that is more due to how our coach handled it leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
Garbage in = garbage out. I've seen some places that were an absolute joke with ACME, and it generally was programs where the spring program was horrible.
So many coaches missed out on a fantastic opportunity to improve their program by not taking it seriously and making it a priority. Football and hoops coaches demand their players attend off season work outs, and take it seriously, but so many baseball coaches clock out when their spring season is over.
What other sport affords a coach the opportunity to have his full team play games and full practices in their off-season?

It's okay. Those who utilize acme to it's fullest extent are better off for it.
 

Peak

Member
For fall ball, yeah. Only 4 per school.no matter whom is coaching.
Not to doubt you, but I've heard similar from our coaches in regards to summer ball. They've said a team couldn't have more than 5 players from a given school on a team in the summer. They built a roster around this requirement. This is in SWO. Not sure if it's an OHSSA thing, or a regional thing. But that's what I've heard from multiple coaches over the last 3 years.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Not to doubt you, but I've heard similar from our coaches in regards to summer ball. They've said a team couldn't have more than 5 players from a given school on a team in the summer. They built a roster around this requirement. This is in SWO. Not sure if it's an OHSSA thing, or a regional thing. But that's what I've heard from multiple coaches over the last 3 years.
SUMMER: (1 June - 31 July) IF NO SCHOOL COACHES/paid or volunteer, do not coach there is no stipulation on how many from the same team can be on the team. The HS coaches get a total of 10 days of instruction, like the other sports.

Aug 1 hits then the rules change. This was the reason why our town's festival 3 on 3 hoops tourny (in august) had to go to 2 on 2 a number of years ago.

FALL BALL: August 1 thru.....baseball is 4 players.

With the 5 players you are talking about, is that for the summer and a spring coach involved in coaching the team? If you look below on the 50% rule pertaining to 10 days of contact in the summer, a baseball team coached by a school official, paid or volunteer, can only have 10 days of contact PER STAFF.


7.3) Regulations Permitting Students to Participate on Non-School Teams Outside of the School
Team’s Season
7.3.1) Team Sports (Other Than Football) – A member of a school program or team in the team
sports of baseball, basketball, field hockey, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball and volleyball may participate with a non-school program or team in contests, tryouts, training and/or
practices prior to and after the school team’s season under the following condition:
a) The number of team members on the non-school team who came from the same school or
who participated in that sport as a team member at another school in the preceding season
is limited to a maximum of 50 percent of the members of a team as defined in the playing
rules of the sport. The 50 percent team limit is as follows:
SPORTS REGULATIONS
80
2019-2020 GENERAL SPORTS REGULATIONS
50% Limitation on Sport Number of squad members
Baseball 4
Basketball 2
Field Hockey 5
Boys Lacrosse 5
Girls Lacrosse 6
Soccer 5
Softball 4
Volleyball 3
Note: Students who did NOT play for a school team the previous year do not count in the 50
percent limitation of that sport.
Exceptions:
a.) The team members limit for the sport of ice hockey shall be five (5).
b.) The 50 percent team limit is not in effect for the sports of basketball, field hockey, ice
hockey, lacrosse, soccer and volleyball from June 1 through July 31.
c.) The 50 percent team limit is not in effect for the sports of baseball and softball from the
Friday before Memorial Day through July 31 provided the members of the school team
have completed their school team’s season.
d.) A member of a school team may continue to participate with a non-school team in a
national qualifying tournament after July 31 until the team is eliminated from the tournament but no later than Labor Day.
e.) Graduating seniors are exempt from the 50 percent participation limitation once their
school season in the same sport has been completed.
f.) These regulations do not apply if the “members” of the non-interscholastic squad are all
siblings (by blood or adoption) and no other player from the same interscholastic squad
is a participant on behalf of the non-interscholastic squad.



10 DAY RULE:
7.5) Regulations Permitting Coaches to Coach Their Own Student-Athletes on Non-School Teams
Outside of the School Team’s Season
7.5.1) Team Sports (10-Day Rule) – Members of a school team’s coaching staff in the team
sports of baseball, basketball, field hockey, football, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball
and volleyball may coach students from their school teams for a maximum of 10 days from
June 1 through July 31. In addition:
a.) The 10-day limitation applies to the entire coaching staff. Each individual coach is not
entitled to 10 different days for coaching. Ten days refers to any amount of time utilized
during those 10 days (i.e. the regulation does NOT permit 240 total hours of coaching…
10 days of 24 hours each).
b.) In the sport of football, only non-contact football is permitted.
c.) The Board of Directors may further limit the number of contact days during this period
as specified in the specific sports regulations.
d.) See General Sports Regulation 8.2.1 for regulations pertaining to out-of-season instruction, which is different than this regulation on coaching.
7.5.2) So long as the 50 percent limitation is observed, a paid or unpaid school (interscholastic)
coach approved by a Board of Education or other governing board may coach students
from his/her school teams in team play at any time except during the mandatory no-contact
period. See General Sports Regulation 7.3.1 for more details on the 50 percent limitation
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Not to doubt you, but I've heard similar from our coaches in regards to summer ball. They've said a team couldn't have more than 5 players from a given school on a team in the summer. They built a roster around this requirement. This is in SWO. Not sure if it's an OHSSA thing, or a regional thing. But that's what I've heard from multiple coaches over the last 3 years.
Are you talking about a summer baseball team being coached by a school coach, paid or volunteer, and having 5 or just a team in general being coached by a non HS sanctioned, paid or volunteer, coach?

If a team is having 5 players, according to the 50% rule, and being coached by a HS coach then that should be in violation of the rules.
If its a team being coached by a non school coach, paid or volunteer, then there is no reason they have to limit it to 5 if it is for the summer...
 

Peak

Member
Are you talking about a summer baseball team being coached by a school coach, paid or volunteer, and having 5 or just a team in general being coached by a non HS sanctioned, paid or volunteer, coach?

If a team is having 5 players, according to the 50% rule, and being coached by a HS coach then that should be in violation of the rules.
If its a team being coached by a non school coach, paid or volunteer, then there is no reason they have to limit it to 5 if it is for the summer...
Good to know. Thanks!
This is a non-HS, paid coach on a summer team. But previously it was parent HC summer team. I'm sure they looked at Fall Ball rule and applied it to Summer as well.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Good to know. Thanks!
This is a non-HS, paid coach on a summer team. But previously it was parent HC summer team. I'm sure they looked at Fall Ball rule and applied it to Summer as well.
Possibly. But if so it woulda been 4 players.
Is it one of those clubs who starts in the spring before the open period around 1 June? If so it would make sense if it was 4 or less.

That is why ACME is a good thing as teams can play together all summer.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Possibly. But if so it woulda been 4 players.
Is it one of those clubs who starts in the spring before the open period around 1 June? If so it would make sense if it was 4 or less.

That is why ACME is a good thing as teams can play together all summer.
Also, I think just for this year some rules/time frames were extended. Like, I think August 1 might have slid to September 1 but just for this year.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Also, I think just for this year some rules/time frames were extended. Like, I think August 1 might have slid to September 1 but just for this year.
Yes, this summer was different. The HS coach could be involved all summer and that was a great thing. He was talking of the last few years. I wonder if they did not know the rule or just made up their own. You can generally add to, but not take away, from the rules in place
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Yes, this summer was different. The HS coach could be involved all summer and that was a great thing. He was talking of the last few years. I wonder if they did not know the rule or just made up their own. You can generally add to, but not take away, from the rules in place
Honestly until you or someone else on this board set me straight, I had heard the same thing down here. I did watch the parent video but that was kind of confusing too.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I've been around it my whole life. Playing days there was no rule, coaching days the rule s have been as stated, with a few tweaks, for quite a long time, 20 ish years. The 5 player thing that was referenced I have not heard before. Maybe it refers to if you have 5 or more then that constitutes over 50% and then that 10 day rule comes into play if coachwd by a school official.

I've seen HS coaches be involved over their days and they ask if I would turn them in hell no. Just told them if anyone does turn them in, it's likly an angry parent from your own team!


Honestly until you or someone else on this board set me straight, I had heard the same thing down here. I did watch the parent video but that was kind of confusing too.
 
I could be wrong, the only exception to this rule is, if the kids have never played for their HS program. This usually applies to the incoming freshmen who have not been officially part of the program. So, the summer before their freshmen year they can have a team from the same school system. Once a player makes a HS team, they will be counted towards this rule. I don't know where things stand for this past year?? Did the freshmen from this past spring officially make the team and counted towards this rule??
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I could be wrong, the only exception to this rule is, if the kids have never played for their HS program. This usually applies to the incoming freshmen who have not been officially part of the program. So, the summer before their freshmen year they can have a team from the same school system. Once a player makes a HS team, they will be counted towards this rule. I don't know where things stand for this past year?? Did the freshmen from this past spring officially make the team and counted towards this rule??
For what sort of team?
As the rule states, Summer is an open time.
I know for Jr. ACME, which has incoming frosh and soph they fall under the same rule in the summer, no limit unless there is a spring coach involved, then it is 10 days.
 
I was referring to summer travel ball.

I am wondering, if you have never been officially part of the HS program as a player then can a HS coach from your school, coach a team from your school district.

ie... Can the varsity coach, coach a team of rising freshmen who haven't made/tried out for his program?

Can a HS coach, coach a team of rising sophomores that may have made his team, but didn't because the season was cancelled so they weren't officially in the program?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I was referring to summer travel ball.

I am wondering, if you have never been officially part of the HS program as a player then can a HS coach from your school, coach a team from your school district.

ie... Can the varsity coach, coach a team of rising freshmen who haven't made/tried out for his program?

Can a HS coach, coach a team of rising sophomores that may have made his team, but didn't because the season was cancelled so they weren't officially in the program?
For this summer, they allowed spring coaches to work their teams this summer. I know of a few where the HS coach was involved in some manner in all their summer games (16-30).


Third paragraph on the attached says these rules apply from 7th-SR's.

JH STIPULATIONS:
32. Grades 7 & 8
32.1) A student shall not participate in more than one interscholastic contest on any one day unless
permitted by specific sports regulations. EXCEPTIONS: baseball, basketball, softball,
volleyball, tennis. (See specific sport regulations.)
32.2) Sports SeasonWaiver—Schools, leagues or conferencesmay adjustseasonsto accommodate
school teams because of the lack of availability of physical facilities or personnel. Proposed
changes in seasons shall be submitted in writing to the Executive Director and include the
proposed dates of the 7th & 8th grade season not to exceed the length of the interscholastic
season for the sport concerned. All other regulations regarding contest limitations, required
practice time and coaching requirements shall be followed.
32.3) 7th & 8th grade students may not practice with, participate on the same team with or compete
against 9th through 12th grade students.
Note: 7th & 8th grade students in the sports of bowling, cross country, golf, gymnastics,
swimming & diving, tennis, track & field and wrestling may practice with 9th through 12th
grade students so long as there is no head-to-head competition.
32.4) Students below the 7th grade may not practice with or participate with 7th through 12th
grade students.
32.5) It is strongly recommended that the coaches of 7th & 8th grade sports complete the OHSAA
rules interpretation meetings for the sports they are coaching.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I was referring to summer travel ball.

I am wondering, if you have never been officially part of the HS program as a player then can a HS coach from your school, coach a team from your school district.

ie... Can the varsity coach, coach a team of rising freshmen who haven't made/tried out for his program?

Can a HS coach, coach a team of rising sophomores that may have made his team, but didn't because the season was cancelled so they weren't officially in the program?
It goes by the school, so not necessarily the HS team.

NORMAL summers, and any paid or volunteer coach from the school only gets ten days (exempt this summer) for the summer AS A STAFF, not per coach.

The poster who said they stipulated only 5 players per team for the summer, as a coach not affiliated with the school, must have had their own rules fro the summer because that isnt an OHSAA rule.

Other than this summer's different Rona Rules, must of this has been around for quite awhile.
 

GCPRO

Well-known member
I coached HS and travel ball in the 90s. I believe the rule was 20% of your roster only allowed with the HS coach. We would have 4. Roster size at the time was 18.
I saw two very successful HS programs being coached by the HS head coach in out of town tourneys. Toledo Start was coached by their head coach in the Beast of the East tourney. Bellefontaine was coached by their coach and played as Powerbuilt I believe. They stayed in the same hotel as us somewhere down south.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I coached HS and travel ball in the 90s. I believe the rule was 20% of your roster only allowed with the HS coach. We would have 4. Roster size at the time was 18.
I saw two very successful HS programs being coached by the HS head coach in out of town tourneys. Toledo Start was coached by their head coach in the Beast of the East tourney. Bellefontaine was coached by their coach and played as Powerbuilt I believe. They stayed in the same hotel as us somewhere down south.
Depends when in the 90's. Early to mid 90's the HS coach could be involved all summer with a full team.

WHen it changed, a certain % constituted a team and fell under the 10 day rule. If you say it was 20%, I believe you as I dont know what the threshold is.

Interesting you mention Toledo Start. They were in ACME for awhile when Coach A was involved. ACME had a rule where you had to appear in 4 ACME games to be eligible for the post season tournament. A few teams were often accused of hand jamming some players into 4 games so they were eligible. TS was one of those programs.......

BUt I digress.......
ANways.......you cannot move the season to the fall right now. That decision needed to be made awhile ago.
 

powerpost

Active member
Not sure about when in 90's but I sat in an acme meeting with about 40 other coaches and was basically told not to worry about the 10 coaching days. Just have a parent be "the coach" and you can do all the instructing. Obviously, that is bending the rules but I believe some baseball people do this in acme.

I remember the quote like it was yesterday " Us high school coaches need to be instructing these kids because we know a lot more than these coaches in the summer. It is best for the kids."

Mind you, back then summer ball isn't what it is today.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Not sure about when in 90's but I sat in an acme meeting with about 40 other coaches and was basically told not to worry about the 10 coaching days. Just have a parent be "the coach" and you can do all the instructing. Obviously, that is bending the rules but I believe some baseball people do this in acme.

I remember the quote like it was yesterday " Us high school coaches need to be instructing these kids because we know a lot more than these coaches in the summer. It is best for the kids."

Mind you, back then summer ball isn't what it is today.
Not surprised.
I coached at two programs. WHen I was asked if I wanted to coach I only agreed to if I could do things as I see fit, and not have the interference in terms of the lineup, PT, etc.

One of the programs, I knew well and attended quite a few of the spring games at the FROSH, JV and Varsity level so I had a pretty good guage of what was up.

The other was a last minute deal and I asked the HC to set me in the right direction and then I would take it from there.

In both instances though we did seek some feedback at the beginning on if there was anything he wanted to see in particular.

I believe it is prudent that the HS coach have some input in many situations for the ACME program, and use the ten days. It isnt any different than hoops coaches 'just watching' at open gyms, or football with their instructional time off the books, etc.
 

GCPRO

Well-known member
Toledo Start and Coach A would have been 96 or 97. I think Rich's son may have been on that team. They werent trying to hide anything, wore the Start unis.
Bellefontaine may have been the early 2000's and I believe it was in Marietta Ga.
I do not remember much about the 10 day rule, but we only had 4 kids from our HS on that team.
We actually joined the ACME program for a year or two in the late 90's but no one in SW Ohio was interested, tough scheduling ballgames which lead us to just become a Larry Redwine vacation fund contributor.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Toledo Start and Coach A would have been 96 or 97. I think Rich's son may have been on that team. They werent trying to hide anything, wore the Start unis.
Bellefontaine may have been the early 2000's and I believe it was in Marietta Ga.
I do not remember much about the 10 day rule, but we only had 4 kids from our HS on that team.
We actually joined the ACME program for a year or two in the late 90's but no one in SW Ohio was interested, tough scheduling ballgames which lead us to just become a Larry Redwine vacation fund contributor.
Lebanon?

Most places wear their team name, some do a sponsor, but most i saw used school/town name.

For that out of state tournament, remember HS coach staff has 10 days in the summer to instruct if they wish.....
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Meeting was at bellefontaine.
Was wondering, and he doesnt have to post on here and just PM, if the team he was talking about was Lebanon from SWO. It was around that time they were involved for a bit and it was a haul. They were at the State ACME tourny in Coldwater one summer. Also the 3 man umpiring crew was from Cincy who was hired as they wanted to check out what ACME was all about in hopes to expand it into Cincy.

But....the money teams win out in the metro areas.

Dealing with the boy in his money team and talking to parents of the other kids about what they all do every summer and man, it just seems like a rat race to find teams to play on, or not even play at all, for many kids....
 

GCPRO

Well-known member
Badin HS. I think Lebanon and maybe springboro might have also been involved.

I don’t remember anything regarding the 10 day coaching rule. I thought that a came about sometime after I was no longer coaching HS. Came about due to soccer.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Badin HS. I think Lebanon and maybe springboro might have also been involved.

I don’t remember anything regarding the 10 day coaching rule. I thought that a came about sometime after I was no longer coaching HS. Came about due to soccer.
Ok. Didn't know Badin got into the league. With it would have stuck aroun nd as it can be very beneficial to a PROGRAM. Lebanon had accused Toledo start of violating the 4 game rule, delayed a game for a bit of time.

Badin and my school got ttangled up into a good one back in the day, still haunt s me to this day.

May ”know* who you are from the jjpuddle days.....2oh?
 
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