Baseball to fall?

BobcatQB

Active member
It's not too late to make the change. Baseball coaches assoc was asked to present a plan to OHSAA to have fall baseball. That was a few weeks ago.

Also, this would not screw baseball again. It's been proven all summer that baseball can work. They don't want the chance to screw baseball again and by keeping it in the spring, that would be a possibility if things get worse over the winter. Unfortunately, that would screw football instead.

According to their thought process, it would be easier to play baseball (better distancing) in the fall. Hope it gets better over winter/possible vaccine and move forward full go in the spring w/ football...then reset in the fall of 2021.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Snap our fingers and switch seasons.....

And just like that schedules are created void of any conflicts
Officials are assigned void of any conflicts
All the logistics are in order void of any conflicts

I never imagined it would be this easy.
 

powerpost

Active member
It's not too late to make the change. Baseball coaches assoc was asked to present a plan to OHSAA to have fall baseball. That was a few weeks ago.

Also, this would not screw baseball again. It's been proven all summer that baseball can work. They don't want the chance to screw baseball again and by keeping it in the spring, that would be a possibility if things get worse over the winter. Unfortunately, that would screw football instead.

According to their thought process, it would be easier to play baseball (better distancing) in the fall. Hope it gets better over winter/possible vaccine and move forward full go in the spring w/ football...then reset in the fall of 2021.
How about all these schools that are going virtual and not allowing sports. Wouldn’t that be screwing baseball?
 

Peak

Member
Middletown Schools just cancelled all Fall sports and extra curricular activities here in Southwest Ohio. I'm sure others will be falling suit in the next week.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Snap our fingers and switch seasons.....

And just like that schedules are created void of any conflicts
Officials are assigned void of any conflicts
All the logistics are in order void of any conflicts

I never imagined it would be this easy.
What football wants.
What football gets.
 

thePITman

Well-known member
My thoughts on Spring football/Fall baseball...
  1. At a high level, if we are talking strictly about weather, then yes, Fall makes more sense for baseball, and Spring makes more sense for football. Baseball's preseason would be in a much better situation, being able to get in more outside practices and scrimmages, and football's 2-a-days would not be in 90 degree heat.
  2. I worry, however, about the state baseball tournament. Right now the baseball season runs for 3 1/2 months. If practice started August 1, the state tournament would be in the back half of November, so you're talking about potentially playing the state championship games in snow - obviously not ideal for any sport, but especially for baseball. Don't forget, it gets darker a LOT faster the later into fall we get, so unless all district and regional baseball fields have lights, you're going to run into issues unless all games are played during the school day (a few do that currently).
  3. If swapping spring and fall sports is a temporary thing, then whenever you choose to go back to normal, that year you would have kids playing back-to-back football seasons, basically non-stop from February to November... that's not healthy.
  4. If we move football to the Spring but neighboring states do not follow suit, schools on the border whose schedules are made up primarily of out-of-state teams are screwed. For example, my wife's alma mater, Conneaut, is the last exit off 90 before you enter Pennsylvania. The conference they are in is actually a Pennsylvania District (PA's round robin to determine playoff teams, basically if our "regions" were to play each other during the regular season). 7 of 10 games on Conneaut's schedule are against Pennsylvania teams.
  5. If football and baseball are swapped, and we end up missing another baseball with more strict guidelines being implemented, a lot of people will be furious. I get football is king, but that would really suck to lose TWO baseball seasons and ZERO football seasons. With that said, I fully understand that the financial impact of not having a football season is much greater than not having a baseball season.
  6. When you start talking about only moving certain sports (and not simply swapping all Fall/Spring sports), smaller schools with 3-sport athletes will suffer greatly.
  7. There is a LOT more that goes into this than just "but the weather would be great!"
Just my $0.02
 
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powerpost

Active member
My thoughts on Spring football/Fall baseball...
  1. At a high level, if we are talking strictly about weather, then yes, Fall makes more sense for baseball, and Spring makes more sense for football. Baseball's preseason would be in a much better situation, being able to get in more outside practices and scrimmages, and football's 2-a-days would not be in 90 degree heat.
  2. I worry, however, about the state baseball tournament. Right now the baseball season runs for 3 1/2 months. If practice started August 1, the state tournament would be in the back half of November, so you're talking about potentially playing the state championship games in snow - obviously not ideal for any sport, but especially for baseball. Don't forget, it gets darker a LOT faster the later into fall we get, so unless all district and regional baseball fields have lights, you're going to run into issues unless all games are playing during the school day (a few do that currently).
  3. If swapping spring and fall sports is a temporary thing, then whenever you choose to go back to normal, that year you would have kids playing back-to-back football seasons, basically non-stop from February to November... that's not healthy.
  4. If football and baseball are swapped, and we end up missing baseball with more strict guidelines, a lot of people will be furious. I get football is king, but that would really suck to lose TWO baseball seasons and ZERO football seasons.
  5. When you start talking about only moving certain sports (and not simply swapping all Fall/Spring sports), smaller schools with 3-sport athletes will suffer greatly.
  6. There is a LOT more that goes into this than just "but the weather would be great!"
Just my $0.02
Exactly!! Sums it up very well. Never thought about the darkness issue. Some schools have trouble getting busses after school as well.
 

BobcatQB

Active member
Switching would be an absolute pain in the butt for everyone, no doubt. But if you are playing the percentages, if you want sports in the fall, switching is probably the best bet. I'm not saying that I want to, just making a statement. I want nothing more than my son to experience his senior year of hs sports...especially football!
 
Most kids have been playing summer baseball and/or conditioning for football and basketball and are ready to play. It's not like we're launching the Perseverance rover to Mars here. You get their arms ready, scrounge up some umpires, and play our league baseball schedules.

If we are not playing football this fall, get out the baseball equipment and let's get after it.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Lol. You love you some acme baseball. Like it.
Ya know, you support what you know, and when it leads to success you become a disciple.

I wholeheartedly believe that if more programs put the time, effort and resources into the JR and SR ACME programs it would eliminate so many of the travel teams, and save families a TON of money and time, and in my opinion, teach a more TEAM oriented game of baseball. The boy played some of both this year, and in the limited time in the ACME he stated he learned more about the full aspect of baseball than he did in 3 summers of money ball.

But I digress........
 

thePITman

Well-known member
If we are not playing football this fall, get out the baseball equipment and let's get after it.
There are some states that actually have TWO high school baseball seasons - one in the Fall and one in the Spring. Oklahoma, for example. Coach Ed Collins at Latta High School in Oklahoma has 2,107 wins in 40+ years at the school. That is over 52 wins per year... The only way that is possible is with their Fall & Spring system. If you look at nationwide High School baseball coaching records, many are from Oklahoma (and I think Missouri) who have more than 1 baseball season.

So let's say football gets cancelled and we do NOT move it to spring, it may seem crazy to US, but why not have 2 baseball seasons?
 

tcgobucks

Well-known member
Ya know, you support what you know, and when it leads to success you become a disciple.

I wholeheartedly believe that if more programs put the time, effort and resources into the JR and SR ACME programs it would eliminate so many of the travel teams, and save families a TON of money and time, and in my opinion, teach a more TEAM oriented game of baseball. The boy played some of both this year, and in the limited time in the ACME he stated he learned more about the full aspect of baseball than he did in 3 summers of money ball.

But I digress........
C'mon.....Acme has it's place...but there's no way that will happen. Other than the 8-10 teams who take it "seriously", it's comparable to mid-level 14U travel ball at best. It has it's place for sure...and is great for the kids who want to play it for whatever reason....travel, work, money, etc. But it's never going to replace travel ball.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
C'mon.....Acme has it's place...but there's no way that will happen. Other than the 8-10 teams who take it "seriously", it's comparable to mid-level 14U travel ball at best. It has it's place for sure...and is great for the kids who want to play it for whatever reason....travel, work, money, etc. But it's never going to replace travel ball.
I was just saying if more places took it more seriously, we would not need all these money leagues and teams.......
 

tcgobucks

Well-known member
I was just saying if more places took it more seriously, we would not need all these money leagues and teams.......
I don't think you'll ever get too many teams to take it "seriously". 1) there are too many conflicts with AAU and 7 on 7. Most of the kids who want to be "baseball players" will be playing travel in the summer....just because of the competition level. In most of the ACME playing schools, if you lose 3 of your Spring team to AAU....and another 1 or 2 to just "not wanting to play", you're left with 3 or 4 starters at best from the Spring team. Just not enough kids willing to play all summer to make it as competitive as it would need to be to even put a dent in travel ball
 

thePITman

Well-known member
I'd be curious how much of the varsity-ish roster plays for schools like Defiance, Coldwater, and Minster for ACME.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
I'd be curious how much of the varsity-ish roster plays for schools like Defiance, Coldwater, and Minster for ACME.
Defiance: pretty much the entire varsity team for the next season.

We take it serious, it's the chance to get reps, make roster decisions, and get kids ready for the varsity season.

Shouldn't be any shock that the NW District teams who are the biggest threats at the state level are the ones like Defiance, Coldwater, and Bryan who take ACME serious.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Defiance: pretty much the entire varsity team for the next season.

We take it serious, it's the chance to get reps, make roster decisions, and get kids ready for the varsity season.

Shouldn't be any shock that the NW District teams who are the biggest threats at the state level are the ones like Defiance, Coldwater, and Bryan who take ACME serious.
We would play y all in a DH and some times come up to one of your tournys. It's a great time to put the pieces together and replace the graduating seniors, and the players the experienxe on the positions they will be playing in the spring.

ACME is team oriented learning and producing, money teams are individualistic.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Middletown Schools just cancelled all Fall sports and extra curricular activities here in Southwest Ohio. I'm sure others will be falling suit in the next week.
Gov. Dewine really does not want to cancel/suspend fall sports and he would really like to have some in school (at least hybrid) activity because he knows that in the low income school districts virtual online schooling is an absolute waste of time for reasons we all know. And he wants the kids to have something to do in the afternoon. He said as much last week. Middletown should have been last the last school district to basically shut down not the first. One can only speculate that the school district is being told that the liability risk for having in person school is way too high. Nobody is really looking at the numbers, nobody is really looking at the data. I sure hope something gets developed in the near future because that is the only way things are going to go back to some sense of normality. Of course, we gave up trying to make an EFFECTIVE vaccine for the SARS virus after 12 years and we have never been able to come up with something for the common cold. And, I wonder who is going to pay for all the "catch up" classes that are going to be necessary in the next few years. Like in most things, the people that are going to suffer the most are those that tolerate it the least.
 
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fortfan

Well-known member
I'd be curious how much of the varsity-ish roster plays for schools like Defiance, Coldwater, and Minster for ACME.
You didn't include Fort Recovery, but we had one kid not play summer ball for us as he played for Dayton North Classics. Everyone else played. We are VERY young and quite a few sophomores made great strides this summer.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
You didn't include Fort Recovery, but we had one kid not play summer ball for us as he played for Dayton North Classics. Everyone else played. We are VERY young and quite a few sophomores made great strides this summer.
I heard Minster, FR and CW are all going to be down next year......

In the past we had some kids kick the tires on playing on money teams. Most come back quickly for a few reasons (their words)
1. Not getting to play the positions they will on the HS team.
2. Didn't like how everyone was in it just for themselves.
3. Travel. Did not allow for them to work, or participate in their football and or basketball workouts.
4. Coaching. This one made me happy. Said they had a few practices and instructioj was not up to snuff.


But I digress
 

thePITman

Well-known member
I've always liked the idea of ACME, it's just not in our area because of the oversaturation of travel programs. We are starting our own travel team of just kids from our school. Almost all our kids have chosen to play for us instead of their typical travel team (so far only 2 will not be playing for us). While we don't play ACME, we plan on playing in good travel ball tournaments with our varsity team. Will probably take our lumps, but our kids will get better playing together.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
I've always liked the idea of ACME, it's just not in our area because of the oversaturation of travel programs. We are starting our own travel team of just kids from our school. Almost all our kids have chosen to play for us instead of their typical travel team (so far only 2 will not be playing for us). While we don't play ACME, we plan on playing in good travel ball tournaments with our varsity team. Will probably take our lumps, but our kids will get better playing together.
Not a bad idea but I thought there was a limit to the number of players or number of games that a team could play in a typical year. Funny story, when I was umpiring out in California in the 90's, they had a rule where a team could have an unlimited amount of players form a high school program on a summer team but no high school coaches could be involved. But this one team from Irvine would have the high school coach in the parking lot with big giant cell phone talking to the "coach"/parent in the dugout. It was hilarious. with the large phone.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Not a bad idea but I thought there was a limit to the number of players or number of games that a team could play in a typical year. Funny story, when I was umpiring out in California in the 90's, they had a rule where a team could have an unlimited amount of players form a high school program on a summer team but no high school coaches could be involved. But this one team from Irvine would have the high school coach in the parking lot with big giant cell phone talking to the "coach"/parent in the dugout. It was hilarious. with the large phone.
Summer is free game, HS coaches can ave ten days instruction if they want.
Not uncommon for the kids in a good program to play 60 plus games together in our area, sans the seniors who graduated.

Regarding your story of a team in Irving....I would never coach and agree to that. Plain and simple.

Up until the mod 90s the spring coach could coach the summer teams for ACME. Myself and a new mber of my buddies played around 200 games with the same coach in three years
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Summer is free game, HS coaches can ave ten days instruction if they want.
Not uncommon for the kids in a good program to play 60 plus games together in our area, sans the seniors who graduated.

Regarding your story of a team in Irving....I would never coach and agree to that. Plain and simple.

Up until the mod 90s the spring coach could coach the summer teams for ACME. Myself and a new mber of my buddies played around 200 games with the same coach in three years
I meant that I thought a team could only have a set number of players from high school on the same summer team with high school coaches involved. I must have been mistaken.
 
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