Astros Sign Stealing

Red14 said:
Well they weren't very good at it then. If they scored 10 runs every game and won in sweeps and blowouts, don't you think the evidence would be a little more supported?
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Baseball is inherently difficult and a game of failure. When a great player fails 70+% plus time that is proof positive.
Even when you know what is coming and hit it well it still needs to find some green.

When teams are so even even a slightest of edge can be enough to push you over the top.
 
Red14 said:
Much like the steroid scandal, who people claimed to know after the fact, including the media, it's water under the bridge now. If you're not going to do anything about it at the time, it's a little weak to say much about it now. It's time to move on folks...
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This is a very stupid and short-sighted take. A weak reponse is infinitely better than a pass in punitive matters.
 
thavoice said:
Baseball is inherently difficult and a game of failure. When a great player fails 70+% plus time that is proof positive.
Even when you know what is coming and hit it well it still needs to find some green.

When teams are so even even a slightest of edge can be enough to push you over the top.
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Really, according even baseball players, it's a HUGE advantage. Giancarlo Stanton says he'd have hit 80 home runs if he knew what was coming.

I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek, my point is there is alot more to this than just guys cheating and being ostracized from baseball.
 
Red14 said:
Most people can't. It's a guessing game, and many players guess what pitch is coming based on tendencies, situations, etc.
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And they guess wrong. Now, if you have a signal from a sign-stealer....

Look, I read your post as if you were diminishing the effect of what they did on the Astros. If you were doing so in sincerity, you're a moron. I can't be any more clear than that.
 
I’ve never seen a team be so polarized by every other team in their sport. Even the Patriots with spygate/deflategate never drew this kind of malice from other teams/players.
 
Omar said:
I’ve never seen a team be so polarized by every other team in their sport. Even the Patriots with spygate/deflategate never drew this kind of malice from other teams/players.
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I disagree, the Patriots got every bit of this as well, and even still do today. I honestly think baseball doesn't actually mind this too much. They see how much angst and attention is spread to the Patriots and even Dallas Cowboys. People like to root for their team and root against certain others. The root of alot of this is just plain jealousy. The Astros have no history of winning, the Patiots, outside of an appearance in the '85 super bowl, had not won much of anything before Tom Brady showed up and it's been a dynasty since. People don't like that.
As we know, the only way teams with championships is if they cheat.
 
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Patriots did not get anything like what the Astros are getting. The Patriots got criticized by sports radio idiots and ESPN talking heads. But no other team owners, coaches or players spoke up about deflated footballs or spygate. Dozens of prominent players and coaches are talking about the Astros in a very negative way. Unlike anything we have ever seen.
 
wolves82 said:
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Patriots did not get anything like what the Astros are getting. The Patriots got criticized by sports radio idiots and ESPN talking heads. But no other team owners, coaches or players spoke up about deflated footballs or spygate. Dozens of prominent players and coaches are talking about the Astros in a very negative way. Unlike anything we have ever seen.
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There are more people these days who don't give a rip about baseball anymore. We don't even know if a slightly deflated football provides any advantage and Tom Brady is STILL paying for that, and it was never proven!!
 
Red14 said:
Much like the steroid scandal, who people claimed to know after the fact, including the media, it's water under the bridge now. If you're not going to do anything about it at the time, it's a little weak to say much about it now. It's time to move on folks...
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So you're saying punishment for cheating should only be doled out if they are caught in the act?
 
Red14 said:
There are more people these days who don't give a rip about baseball anymore. We don't even know if a slightly deflated football provides any advantage and Tom Brady is STILL paying for that, and it was never proven!!
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You missed the entire point of the discussion, once again. Allow me to sum up:

The initial comment made by Omar was basically "The Astros are getting more heat for cheating from other teams/players than we've seen before"

You disagreed and said the Patriots took a lot of heat for their cheating.

I pointed out that only the media criticized the Patriots, no other NFL coaches or players said anything. Astros are getting killed by other coaches/players in MLB. I agree with Omar.

your illogical counterarguments:
- lots of people don't like baseball.
- it wasn't proven that footballs were underinflated

I'm guessing you were not on the debate team. You and Brian1227 should meet and have a talk about sports. I might pay to watch that.
 
Red14 said:
There are more people these days who don't give a rip about baseball anymore. We don't even know if a slightly deflated football provides any advantage and Tom Brady is STILL paying for that, and it was never proven!!
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He won 2 Super Bowls after that so........
 
Indiandad said:
So you're saying punishment for cheating should only be doled out if they are caught in the act?
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You guys can keep one whining and complaining about it. It happened, I'm not sure of the extent it even helped so it's a non-issue in my eyes, and many of the players from that team are no longer with the Astros so it's time to move on.
 
Red14 said:
You guys can keep one whining and complaining about it. It happened, I'm not sure of the extent it even helped so it's a non-issue in my eyes, and many of the players from that team are no longer with the Astros so it's time to move on.
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So we just heard yesterday that during Game 5 of 2017 WS (home game for Astros), Clayton Kershaw threw 51 curves and sliders and had ZERO swings and misses. You've heard of Kershaw, the most dominant pitcher of the last decade, with that devastating curve and slider he mixes with 97 MPH fastball?

Still think that the cheating had no impact? They knew what pitch was coming and laid off.
 
wolves82 said:
So we just heard yesterday that during Game 5 of 2017 WS (home game for Astros), Clayton Kershaw threw 51 curves and sliders and had ZERO swings and misses. You've heard of Kershaw, the most dominant pitcher of the last decade, with that devastating curve and slider he mixes with 97 MPH fastball?

Still think that the cheating had no impact? They knew what pitch was coming and laid off.
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Kershaw has had a long history of playoff misery, guess we'll have to accuse all of the teams that beat him in the playoffs of cheating...
 
Red14 said:
Kershaw has had a long history of playoff misery, guess we'll have to accuse all of the teams that beat him in the playoffs of cheating...
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ZERO swings and misses? You think that's just playoff misery?

When we see some batting averages and power numbers drop this year, we'll know just how much it truly helped. You could poll every big leaguer and 100% of them would tell you they would love to know when a fastball was coming.
 
Red14 said:
Kershaw has had a long history of playoff misery, guess we'll have to accuse all of the teams that beat him in the playoffs of cheating...
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Please. A great pitcher, with great control and a 50.8% swing rate in 2017, suddenly gets a zero % swing rate on his tough off-speed pitches? Only a stubborn person with his head up his behind doesn't acknowledge this.
 
Sig Hansen said:
It kills me that you clowns still respond to him. Best troll in yappi history and that is saying something
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I don't think he is trolling - he is just a below average intelligence guy who lives on talk radio, and will never admit being wrong, even when presented overwhelming facts. I transitioned to Yappi from JJ Huddle and he was the same there. If he is trolling, well, he is the best.
 
Wish everyone had their masks handy so they could've really gone at it. Main Rule Change I was upset about COVID was no more fighting
 
Joe Kelly, lol.
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