Astros Sign Stealing

thavoice

Well-known member
Well they weren't very good at it then. If they scored 10 runs every game and won in sweeps and blowouts, don't you think the evidence would be a little more supported?
Baseball is inherently difficult and a game of failure. When a great player fails 70+% plus time that is proof positive.
Even when you know what is coming and hit it well it still needs to find some green.

When teams are so even even a slightest of edge can be enough to push you over the top.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Much like the steroid scandal, who people claimed to know after the fact, including the media, it's water under the bridge now. If you're not going to do anything about it at the time, it's a little weak to say much about it now. It's time to move on folks...
This is a very stupid and short-sighted take. A weak reponse is infinitely better than a pass in punitive matters.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
So just for kicks...if you picked up a sign that a "fastball" was being thrown, would you be able to decipher if it was a two seam, four seam, cutter, etc??

Timing. We are talking about 12+ mph separation at 60.5 feet


You've never hit anything over 86 mph, have you ? Ever.
 

Red14

Well-known member
Baseball is inherently difficult and a game of failure. When a great player fails 70+% plus time that is proof positive.
Even when you know what is coming and hit it well it still needs to find some green.

When teams are so even even a slightest of edge can be enough to push you over the top.
Really, according even baseball players, it's a HUGE advantage. Giancarlo Stanton says he'd have hit 80 home runs if he knew what was coming.

I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek, my point is there is alot more to this than just guys cheating and being ostracized from baseball.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Most people can't. It's a guessing game, and many players guess what pitch is coming based on tendencies, situations, etc.
And they guess wrong. Now, if you have a signal from a sign-stealer....

Look, I read your post as if you were diminishing the effect of what they did on the Astros. If you were doing so in sincerity, you're a moron. I can't be any more clear than that.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I’ve never seen a team be so polarized by every other team in their sport. Even the Patriots with spygate/deflategate never drew this kind of malice from other teams/players.
 

Red14

Well-known member
I’ve never seen a team be so polarized by every other team in their sport. Even the Patriots with spygate/deflategate never drew this kind of malice from other teams/players.
I disagree, the Patriots got every bit of this as well, and even still do today. I honestly think baseball doesn't actually mind this too much. They see how much angst and attention is spread to the Patriots and even Dallas Cowboys. People like to root for their team and root against certain others. The root of alot of this is just plain jealousy. The Astros have no history of winning, the Patiots, outside of an appearance in the '85 super bowl, had not won much of anything before Tom Brady showed up and it's been a dynasty since. People don't like that.
As we know, the only way teams with championships is if they cheat.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Patriots did not get anything like what the Astros are getting. The Patriots got criticized by sports radio idiots and ESPN talking heads. But no other team owners, coaches or players spoke up about deflated footballs or spygate. Dozens of prominent players and coaches are talking about the Astros in a very negative way. Unlike anything we have ever seen.
 

Red14

Well-known member
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Patriots did not get anything like what the Astros are getting. The Patriots got criticized by sports radio idiots and ESPN talking heads. But no other team owners, coaches or players spoke up about deflated footballs or spygate. Dozens of prominent players and coaches are talking about the Astros in a very negative way. Unlike anything we have ever seen.
There are more people these days who don't give a rip about baseball anymore. We don't even know if a slightly deflated football provides any advantage and Tom Brady is STILL paying for that, and it was never proven!!
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Well they weren't very good at it then. If they scored 10 runs every game and won in sweeps and blowouts, don't you think the evidence would be a little more supported?
Houston had the highest scoring offense in baseball in 2017.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Much like the steroid scandal, who people claimed to know after the fact, including the media, it's water under the bridge now. If you're not going to do anything about it at the time, it's a little weak to say much about it now. It's time to move on folks...
So you're saying punishment for cheating should only be doled out if they are caught in the act?
 

wolves82

Well-known member
There are more people these days who don't give a rip about baseball anymore. We don't even know if a slightly deflated football provides any advantage and Tom Brady is STILL paying for that, and it was never proven!!
You missed the entire point of the discussion, once again. Allow me to sum up:

The initial comment made by Omar was basically "The Astros are getting more heat for cheating from other teams/players than we've seen before"

You disagreed and said the Patriots took a lot of heat for their cheating.

I pointed out that only the media criticized the Patriots, no other NFL coaches or players said anything. Astros are getting killed by other coaches/players in MLB. I agree with Omar.

your illogical counterarguments:
- lots of people don't like baseball.
- it wasn't proven that footballs were underinflated

I'm guessing you were not on the debate team. You and Brian1227 should meet and have a talk about sports. I might pay to watch that.
 

Zezzo!

Well-known member
There are more people these days who don't give a rip about baseball anymore. We don't even know if a slightly deflated football provides any advantage and Tom Brady is STILL paying for that, and it was never proven!!
He won 2 Super Bowls after that so........
 

Red14

Well-known member
So you're saying punishment for cheating should only be doled out if they are caught in the act?
You guys can keep one whining and complaining about it. It happened, I'm not sure of the extent it even helped so it's a non-issue in my eyes, and many of the players from that team are no longer with the Astros so it's time to move on.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
You guys can keep one whining and complaining about it. It happened, I'm not sure of the extent it even helped so it's a non-issue in my eyes, and many of the players from that team are no longer with the Astros so it's time to move on.
So we just heard yesterday that during Game 5 of 2017 WS (home game for Astros), Clayton Kershaw threw 51 curves and sliders and had ZERO swings and misses. You've heard of Kershaw, the most dominant pitcher of the last decade, with that devastating curve and slider he mixes with 97 MPH fastball?

Still think that the cheating had no impact? They knew what pitch was coming and laid off.
 

Red14

Well-known member
So we just heard yesterday that during Game 5 of 2017 WS (home game for Astros), Clayton Kershaw threw 51 curves and sliders and had ZERO swings and misses. You've heard of Kershaw, the most dominant pitcher of the last decade, with that devastating curve and slider he mixes with 97 MPH fastball?

Still think that the cheating had no impact? They knew what pitch was coming and laid off.
Kershaw has had a long history of playoff misery, guess we'll have to accuse all of the teams that beat him in the playoffs of cheating...
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Kershaw has had a long history of playoff misery, guess we'll have to accuse all of the teams that beat him in the playoffs of cheating...
ZERO swings and misses? You think that's just playoff misery?

When we see some batting averages and power numbers drop this year, we'll know just how much it truly helped. You could poll every big leaguer and 100% of them would tell you they would love to know when a fastball was coming.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Kershaw has had a long history of playoff misery, guess we'll have to accuse all of the teams that beat him in the playoffs of cheating...
Please. A great pitcher, with great control and a 50.8% swing rate in 2017, suddenly gets a zero % swing rate on his tough off-speed pitches? Only a stubborn person with his head up his behind doesn't acknowledge this.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
It kills me that you clowns still respond to him. Best troll in yappi history and that is saying something
I don't think he is trolling - he is just a below average intelligence guy who lives on talk radio, and will never admit being wrong, even when presented overwhelming facts. I transitioned to Yappi from JJ Huddle and he was the same there. If he is trolling, well, he is the best.
 

Raymo

Well-known member
Play ball,three Houston batters get beaned with the bases loaded...good luck cheaters...BAM!
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
Wish everyone had their masks handy so they could've really gone at it. Main Rule Change I was upset about COVID was no more fighting
 
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