Astros Sign Stealing

Sig Hansen said:
Insane. Take the World Series away from them

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I was wondering if there was any video/audio of this allegedly happening during the World Series- I’ll be interested in hearing this when I’m not in such a loud environment lol.

It still seems odd to me that if it was that obvious it took two years for it to come out.

Also, the Astros won three games in Dodger Stadium- didn’t they allegedly only do this at home?
 
MasonComet said:
I was wondering if there was any video/audio of this allegedly happening during the World Series- I’ll be interested in hearing this when I’m not in such a loud environment lol.

It still seems odd to me that if it was that obvious it took two years for it to come out.

Also, the Astros won three games in Dodger Stadium- didn’t they allegedly only do this at home?
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There was a bunch of whistling during the WS that was hard for anybody to prove on video. The whole stadium was full of people whistling, so it would be difficult to pick out the Astros bench whistling over thousands of other fans. But I'm sure it was audible enough at field level for the Astros batters to pick up

How did the umpires not say anything about this? Surely they noticed it during the regular season when the banging was blatantly obvious. Or maybe they did say something, MLB brushed it under the rug, then had to take action once Fiers talked and the Jomboy videos came out.
 
Red14 said:
Sign stealing has gone on in baseball for decades...I'm shocked people are so up in arms. You give boys technology and they'll cheat, plain and simple. This is pushing the commish into a corner so he feels like he has to do something. Idea...how about mixing up the signs...first sign, second sign, etc. I mean didn't anyone who had a guy on second signal to the batter when you picked up on the signals?
And as mentioned earlier, whomever compared this to Pete Rose is just silly. Pete not only bet on baseball, he then lied to us for 15 years before he finally gave in.
And honestly, we've discussed this before, how much difference does the manager make anymore?
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There is a huge difference between historical "sign-stealing" in baseball and using technology and cheating as part of your regular business. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

- A guy on 2nd base can see the sign flashed and see the pitch type. If he figures that out and flashes a signal to the batter somehow, that is just regular gamesmanship, and it impacts one at bat. That is on the pitcher/catcher to alter their sign system.
- A smart bench coach can watch the 3rd base coach and maybe figure out what the signs are, and alert his defense to a bunt or steal. That is on the 3rd base coach to have multiple triggers and wipe-off signs for the team, and change it up periodically. This is also fine.

Having a camera trained on the pitcher/catcher on every pitch, and a monitor in the dugout/tunnel, with a system to communicate every pitch to the batter is way across the line. Any baseball fan can see that compromises the integrity of the game.
 
wolves82 said:
There is a huge difference between historical "sign-stealing" in baseball and using technology and cheating as part of your regular business. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

- A guy on 2nd base can see the sign flashed and see the pitch type. If he figures that out and flashes a signal to the batter somehow, that is just regular gamesmanship, and it impacts one at bat. That is on the pitcher/catcher to alter their sign system.
- A smart bench coach can watch the 3rd base coach and maybe figure out what the signs are, and alert his defense to a bunt or steal. That is on the 3rd base coach to have multiple triggers and wipe-off signs for the team, and change it up periodically. This is also fine.

Having a camera trained on the pitcher/catcher on every pitch, and a monitor in the dugout/tunnel, with a system to communicate every pitch to the batter is way across the line. Any baseball fan can see that compromises the integrity of the game.
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As paranoid as athletes are (in every sport) that there is some kind of cheating going on, you would think there would routinely be a "change" in signs on a regular basis. Heck, players, coaches hold their hands over their mouths because they think there are pro lip readers at the ready to tip off the next great play!! So this is again, much to do about nothing. Baseball/ Manfred is standing on a pedestal, pounding their chest with the GREAT revelation and punishment. SMH....
 
Sig Hansen said:
There was a bunch of whistling during the WS that was hard for anybody to prove on video. The whole stadium was full of people whistling, so it would be difficult to pick out the Astros bench whistling over thousands of other fans. But I'm sure it was audible enough at field level for the Astros batters to pick up

How did the umpires not say anything about this? Surely they noticed it during the regular season when the banging was blatantly obvious. Or maybe they did say something, MLB brushed it under the rug, then had to take action once Fiers talked and the Jomboy videos came out.
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A stadium full of people, screaming and yelling when their team is batting, there is no way a batter can hear guys banging on a trash can 40-50 ft away. I'm not saying it didn't happen, it's just not a big deal and had little impact on the games.
 
The poor Dodgers got cheated by the Sox and Assstro's,something has to give up something ...BAM!
 
Wonder if there is anything to the fact that the Dodgers and Yankees were adversely affected by this??? Hmmmm........
 
Red14 said:
As paranoid as athletes are (in every sport) that there is some kind of cheating going on, you would think there would routinely be a "change" in signs on a regular basis. Heck, players, coaches hold their hands over their mouths because they think there are pro lip readers at the ready to tip off the next great play!! So this is again, much to do about nothing. Baseball/ Manfred is standing on a pedestal, pounding their chest with the GREAT revelation and punishment. SMH....
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Why do you think they aren’t changing their signals? If teams didn’t change them routinely, there would be no need to cheat in the manner the Astros did.
 
Red14 said:
A stadium full of people, screaming and yelling when their team is batting, there is no way a batter can hear guys banging on a trash can 40-50 ft away. I'm not saying it didn't happen, it's just not a big deal and had little impact on the games.
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Lol, yeah cause every pitch in an mlb game is like 3rd down at CenturyLink.
 
Red14 said:
As paranoid as athletes are (in every sport) that there is some kind of cheating going on, you would think there would routinely be a "change" in signs on a regular basis. Heck, players, coaches hold their hands over their mouths because they think there are pro lip readers at the ready to tip off the next great play!! So this is again, much to do about nothing. Baseball/ Manfred is standing on a pedestal, pounding their chest with the GREAT revelation and punishment. SMH....
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Signs and indicators are likely changed every series or more. Otherwise, an elaborate sign-stealing scheme such as what the Astros did would not be necessary.
 
Red14 said:
As paranoid as athletes are (in every sport) that there is some kind of cheating going on, you would think there would routinely be a "change" in signs on a regular basis. Heck, players, coaches hold their hands over their mouths because they think there are pro lip readers at the ready to tip off the next great play!! So this is again, much to do about nothing. Baseball/ Manfred is standing on a pedestal, pounding their chest with the GREAT revelation and punishment. SMH....
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So clearly you are fine with this. It's OK by you if the home team has a camera focused on the catcher, and a live monitor in the dugout. How far would you let them go? Can they put earphones in the batting helmets like NFL QBs get? That way the guy in the dugout could give the hitter pitch and location. Is that OK? What about putting listening devices in the visitors dugout and clubhouse? Is that OK too?

Get your head out of the sand. If you don't draw the line at forbidding all technology like this, it will spiral quickly out of control.
 
wolves82 said:
So clearly you are fine with this. It's OK by you if the home team has a camera focused on the catcher, and a live monitor in the dugout. How far would you let them go? Can they put earphones in the batting helmets like NFL QBs get? That way the guy in the dugout could give the hitter pitch and location. Is that OK? What about putting listening devices in the visitors dugout and clubhouse? Is that OK too?

Get your head out of the sand. If you don't draw the line at forbidding all technology like this, it will spiral quickly out of control.
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I'm not ok with it, but I"m not losing my mind over it, and please look back, the Red Sox and Astros didn't win all thier home games in the playoffs, and they won games on the road?? So are they just crappy at stealing signs?? Stop overthinking everything and just tip your cap to the winner.
Our society today are a bunch of sore losers.
 
Red14 said:
I'm not ok with it, but I"m not losing my mind over it, and please look back, the Red Sox and Astros didn't win all thier home games in the playoffs, and they won games on the road?? So are they just crappy at stealing signs?? Stop overthinking everything and just tip your cap to the winner.
Our society today are a bunch of sore losers.
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Lol. Who is losing their mind over it. They cheated, they get punished. Pretty easy to understand and not lose your mind over.
 
Looks like Beltran may be the next to go.

I think how the axes are falling is going to be a tremendous deterrent. Players who do bad, like PEDs, will always get second and third chances and a team to take a chance on them because they make a huge difference on the field, in the standings and with attendance. Managers who are getting the boot likely wont see anything near this level again and their career's over so yeah, I think this has hit them pretty hard.
 
thavoice said:
Looks like Beltran may be the next to go.

I think how the axes are falling is going to be a tremendous deterrent. Players who do bad, like PEDs, will always get second and third chances and a team to take a chance on them because they make a huge difference on the field, in the standings and with attendance. Managers who are getting the boot likely wont see anything near this level again and their career's over so yeah, I think this has hit them pretty hard.
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The managers involved will have offers the day their suspensions are up. Maybe not as a manager but within baseball. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up on a network this season.
 
Sign stealing by an observant base coach or runner on second isn't foreign and probably happens at the college level on up. Using a camera to steal signs is cheating.
 
Weren't there some photos of Astros batters wearing some type of buzzing device on their thumbs inside the batting gloves? This whole thing is amazing.

Also you've gotta love Jessica Mendoza calling out Mike Fiers for being a rat. What an absolute moron ? ? ?
 
Well, if Fiers is such a stand-up guy, why didn't he say anything in 2017 when he was on the team and benefiting from the cheating? He waited until he was off the team and the Astros were beating his brains in (ERA 9.00+ against them). He is a rat.

It is logically possible to be 100% opposed to the cheating (as I am), and also consider Fiers to be a rat. If you are party to the crimes, and blow the whistle later only when it benefits you, I have no respect for you.
 
Sig Hansen said:
Weren't there some photos of Astros batters wearing some type of buzzing device on their thumbs inside the batting gloves? This whole thing is amazing.

Also you've gotta love Jessica Mendoza calling out Mike Fiers for being a rat. What an absolute moron ? ? ?
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Yeah, Mendoza came across as a total moron.
 
I think they need to keep on investigating this.
If you must, give players immunity to spill the beans and start suspending players. 3 managers and a GM already losing their job is a great start and now if we can just get some players booted then I think it will be extremely rare for anyone to try it again.

I would then come out, if I were MLB, with what punishments would be moving forward if they get caught, and those punishments being double or triple what these guys got.


Nip it...in the bud!
 
thavoice said:
I think they need to keep on investigating this.
If you must, give players immunity to spill the beans and start suspending players. 3 managers and a GM already losing their job is a great start and now if we can just get some players booted then I think it will be extremely rare for anyone to try it again.

I would then come out, if I were MLB, with what punishments would be moving forward if they get caught, and those punishments being double or triple what these guys got.


Nip it...in the bud!
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Until they actually suspend players, I think the punishment is too light. They suspend guys for basically entire seasons over PED usage, why is this any different? Frankly, it’s actually a far more egregious form of cheating.
 
Omar said:
Until they actually suspend players, I think the punishment is too light. They suspend guys for basically entire seasons over PED usage, why is this any different? Frankly, it’s actually a far more egregious form of cheating.
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Eh.
Stealing signs is as old as baseball itself.

Doing it in the fashion they are doing it now with technology is the issue.

They had to give out immunity to players to be able to get all of this dirt, really no different than making deals with criminals to get the bigger ones!
 
thavoice said:
Eh.
Stealing signs is as old as baseball itself.

Doing it in the fashion they are doing it now with technology is the issue.

They had to give out immunity to players to be able to get all of this dirt, really no different than making deals with criminals to get the bigger ones!
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I agree entirely on the use technology being the issue. This was an elaborate system, not like a runner at 2nd base signaling to the batter where the catcher is setting up.
 
thavoice said:
I think they need to keep on investigating this.
If you must, give players immunity to spill the beans and start suspending players. 3 managers and a GM already losing their job is a great start and now if we can just get some players booted then I think it will be extremely rare for anyone to try it again.

I would then come out, if I were MLB, with what punishments would be moving forward if they get caught, and those punishments being double or triple what these guys got.


Nip it...in the bud!
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Why is using performance enhancing technology any less egregious than using performance enhancing drugs? Both give a clear advantage and clearly against the rules and sportsmanship of the game.
 
Gh0st said:
Why is using performance enhancing technology any less egregious than using performance enhancing drugs? Both give a clear advantage and clearly against the rules and sportsmanship of the game.
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I did not comment it was different, bit since you asked PED use by a person effects 3-5 ABs a game, not pretty much every one.

PED user still needs to discern what the pitch is, usages does not help that!
 
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