Ask The Ump?

thavoice

Well-known member
@thavoice, it’s an illegal pitch simply because it’s a “quick pitch”, which is a disadvantage to the batter. People (not you, just in general) always think a balk is the act by the pitcher, but it simply describes the situation.

two exact violations are called different things to distinguish between runners on and bases empty
Yeah, I never seen it called until the spring of 2016, and the coach said he had seen in a few times that season.
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
I had a game about 2 weeks ago where I was HPU and count on leadoff batter was 3-1 when pitcher licked his fingers and went straight to the ball. My partner got it before I did and yelled either balk or illegal (forget which she declared) and I told the batter he was going to first base.

never seen anyone so confused and I had to explain to his coach and scorekeeper that he should be credit with a walk, they were completely lost
 

bucksman

Moderator
I know the "hybrid" is legal in MLB, and I'm almost sure it's a legal pitching position under NCAA rules. NFHS rules - as noted here - it's illegal.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Lightening nearby, large streak in CF. Would you have the teams back on the field restarting the game in 15 minutes?
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
No, standard is 30 mins, I’ve done some tournaments where they said 20 after last lightning.

but my $55 isn’t worth being sued over so no
 

SMARTY22

Well-known member
Hey Mr. Ask the Ump, what if anything do you do to keep your feet from feeling literally on fire when umpiring on Turf? Has even melted soles of shoes it’s so damn hot.
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
Im not sure if there is a set answer, but my first thoughts:

1) explore different sock options. Idk the name of the fabric but find “cooling” or “breathable” fabric rather than cotton or wool. I always call it dri-fit but that might not be the official name. I wear Dri-fit socks, undershirt, and even my hat is the breathable fabric (got at Purchase Officials Supply)

2) Remove shoes between games. Might seem obvious but when I have two plates in a row I rarely remove anything other than my hat, once in a while my chest protector, but if it’s that hot and feet are burning, remove the shoes, sit in AC, and if you brought a cooler for ice and drinks, have something you can set in there so shoes sit on top of it in the cooler without being in the ice to cool them down

3) AS might disagree but if it’s that hot, and there is shade somewhere on the field, stand in it between innings. I know HPU is supposed to be watching pitches or on foul line, and BU in right field, but if it’s that hot, no one is going to judge if you go stand in the shade between innings
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Lightening nearby, large streak in CF. Would you have the teams back on the field restarting the game in 15 minutes?
No !!!

30 minutes from last sighting, That delay is standard under NFHS and NCAA. (NCAA is if lightning is detected within 8 miles)

If a TD said otherwise, they'd be looking for replacement umpires.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Hey Mr. Ask the Ump, what if anything do you do to keep your feet from feeling literally on fire when umpiring on Turf? Has even melted soles of shoes it’s so damn hot.
Like most things when it comes to comfort, to each his own.

I always wear 2 pairs of socks. Good socks, thick ones.....probably go through 5 pair a season. That said when it's 127 (hottest I've ever been on..... back in the day some MLB parks would hit 140+) on the turf, hot is hot. You'll find out what works for you and what doesn't.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
No !!!

30 minutes from last sighting, That delay is standard under NFHS and NCAA. (NCAA is if lightning is detected within 8 miles)

If a TD said otherwise, they'd be looking for replacement umpires.
Yeah......about that.
Recently they had them back on the field and playing within 15 minutes. It wasnt like it was some far off, what some call heat lightening (no such thing), as it was a large streak which appeared to be pretty close.


Just thought it was odd..>>Everyone was tracking 30 minutes...some people left and came back at 30 and missed an inning...
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Yeah......about that.
Recently they had them back on the field and playing within 15 minutes. It wasnt like it was some far off, what some call heat lightening (no such thing), as it was a large streak which appeared to be pretty close.


Just thought it was odd..>>Everyone was tracking 30 minutes...some people left and came back at 30 and missed an inning...
A former employee of mine had a nephew killed by lightning during a soccer tournament. The tournament director sent the teams back onto the fields 10 minutes after the storm had passed and "lightning had stopped". 5 minutes later, a bolt came out of the back side of the storm and struck a nearby pond. It traveled through the ground to where the players were. One dead, many injured because people are stupid.
 

lasalle9802

Active member
Runner on 2nd And 2 outs with a pitch in the dirt, catcher blocks the ball and bounces 2’ away. Very small backstops at this tourney. Has he goes to get the ball, the on deck batter goes for the ball too. OD batter gets to ball first and picks the ball up as the runner is taking off for 3rd.
I figured it’s interference and the runner is out. But no they call a dead ball and give the runner 3rd base nobody out. The real kicker is next pitch kid hit a nice single game over lost by 1. So what’s the right call? Should I have protested to the TD?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Runner on 2nd And 2 outs with a pitch in the dirt, catcher blocks the ball and bounces 2’ away. Very small backstops at this tourney. Has he goes to get the ball, the on deck batter goes for the ball too. OD batter gets to ball first and picks the ball up as the runner is taking off for 3rd.
I figured it’s interference and the runner is out. But no they call a dead ball and give the runner 3rd base nobody out. The real kicker is next pitch kid hit a nice single game over lost by 1. So what’s the right call? Should I have protested to the TD?
Would like to see this answer.
Something somewhat similiar a few years ago.

Ball got loose from the BP to behind the catcher, at the same time of a PB/WP. Catcher goes to get the ball, picks up the ball from the BP, easily throws out the runner at home. The actual pitched ball went well to the backstop and no way the catcher gets it throws out the runner.

HPU called a dead ball. Stopped all actions from the time of the pitch reached the hitter. All runners had to go back. Pitch counted.

No one really complained. Must have not been a critical time of the game, I forget that part. Was very....unique.

Would like to hear an expert on both of these situations.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Runner on 2nd And 2 outs with a pitch in the dirt, catcher blocks the ball and bounces 2’ away. Very small backstops at this tourney. Has he goes to get the ball, the on deck batter goes for the ball too. OD batter gets to ball first and picks the ball up as the runner is taking off for 3rd.
I figured it’s interference and the runner is out. But no they call a dead ball and give the runner 3rd base nobody out. The real kicker is next pitch kid hit a nice single game over lost by 1. So what’s the right call? Should I have protested to the TD?
This is almost to the word an Official Rule Interpretation play from the NFHS.

SITUATION 19: With runners on first and second, the pitch rebounds off the catcher's shin guard and goes to the on-deck circle. An on-deck batter, not thinking, picks up the ball and throws it to the pitcher. The runners (a) were not moving at the time or (b) attempting to advance to the next base.
RULING: In (a) the ball is declared dead. In (b) the ball is declared dead and the runner that the umpire believes a play would have been made on is declared out. If the umpire is uncertain, the runner nearest home would be called out. (2-21-1a, 8-4-2g)

In short, there are two possibilities on this play (the umpires screwed this one up).

1) If there was no play being made by the defense, the ball is dead once that OD hitter intentionally touches or grabs the ball. Once that ball is dead nothing can happen. Runners cannot advance. Put the runner back at second base and resume play as you would after any dead ball.

2) If there was a play being made, (in this case the runner started just as F2 was getting to the ball) then the ball is dead and the runner is declared out for the interference by the OD hitter.

A protest would have been in order here as awarding bases is nowhere available under the rule.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Would like to see this answer.
Something somewhat similiar a few years ago.

Ball got loose from the BP to behind the catcher, at the same time of a PB/WP. Catcher goes to get the ball, picks up the ball from the BP, easily throws out the runner at home. The actual pitched ball went well to the backstop and no way the catcher gets it throws out the runner.

HPU called a dead ball. Stopped all actions from the time of the pitch reached the hitter. All runners had to go back. Pitch counted.

No one really complained. Must have not been a critical time of the game, I forget that part. Was very....unique.

Would like to hear an expert on both of these situations.
When did the umpire rule the ball dead?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When he realized the ball the catcher picked up was not the game ball.
Gotcha....

The ball is dead immediately when the wrong ball is recognized. The umpires will then either place the runners back to the base legally obtained at the time of the dead ball or will award bases they would have reached absent the wrong ball being picked up.

Not typically a play where everyone is happy.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Gotcha....

The ball is dead immediately when the wrong ball is recognized. The umpires will then either place the runners back to the base legally obtained at the time of the dead ball or will award bases they would have reached absent the wrong ball being picked up.

Not typically a play where everyone is happy.
It was...unique! No one complained I do not believe, probably because it did not matter much.

How about this.....tis almost happened about ten years ago. Pitcher in the windup. Sprinkler system comes on. Pitcher stopped but what would you have called I he threw the pitch....let it play out? Or dead ball.
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
I don’t know what the “official rule” is but common sense would have to prevail here; I’m killing the play and we have no pitch and no action.

just bc F1 throws the ball, how do you know batter didn’t swing and miss, or took the pitch right down the middle bc he was distracted by the water sprouting up in his view? If he hits the ball, how do do you know the fielder closest wasn’t caught looking at sprinkler or reacting to it and now can’tget to ball in time?

seems to me it’s an easy reset the play and start anew when sprinklers are off
 

thavoice

Well-known member
This did happen to me. When that man made rain delay hits....

Kill everything a start over.

It was quite interesting. I wish he would have thrown the pitch to see what happened! The host team made the calls to get them turned off so we could finish the DH. We wondered how much they would have tried if they were winning the game. Me thinks they would have shrugged their shoulders and said nothing they could do!
 

Bugsy8875

Member
Runner at 1B... Base hit to OF, PU comes up if play at 3B. If batted ball stays in the infield, does the PU still come up to cover 3B on potential play there or should BU take all the bases?
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
PU stays home and helps on illegal slide at 2nd and pulled foot-swipe tag at first.

when I was first learning rotations, I went to third on every ball; and quickly learned that the vast majority of plays happen at 1st and 2nd and I need to help there, if R1 goes to third on throw to first it’s the BU responsibility to get it from the “working area”
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Runner at 1B... Base hit to OF, PU comes up if play at 3B. If batted ball stays in the infield, does the PU still come up to cover 3B on potential play there or should BU take all the bases?
Base umpire has all calls at 1st, 2nd. and 3rd on balls hit to the infield.
 

Bugsy8875

Member
Runner at 2B... Base hit to left center... Who should be watching for obstruction that might happen between the runner and third basemen?
 

Bugsy8875

Member
Should add that either can get it if they see it, but since you said F5, so I’m guessing it was near the bag, and thus, the HPU will be the one looking at that
Thank you! Had these the last two days and my thoughts were correct. Partner felt otherwise and made me question what I believed. What you explained and what I thought makes the most sense with those mechanics.
 
Thank you! Had these the last two days and my thoughts were correct. Partner felt otherwise and made me question what I believed. What you explained and what I thought makes the most sense with those mechanics.
Here are 2 man mechanics for Ohio baseball:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Officiating/dod/2Man-BBMechanics.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj5obfg99HqAhWhdN8KHf-pCTQQFjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw0dNsw2Eep_XrRGpVoAbuzC
Search for"RUNNER ON SECOND".
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
Here’s one for you AllSports, and I’m curious your thoughts, as this was a hot debate at our umpires dinner last night (9 umpires from various fields of a tournament we were working met for dinner)

Situation: Runners on 1st and 3rd, one out. Deep fly ball hit to outfield. Runner on 3rd is tagging, runner on 1st is standing near 2B (but has not touched or passed it) waiting to see what happens.

outfielder makes the catch at the fence for out #2, and upon completion of the catch, removes ball from his glove and tosses it over his shoulder out of play.

umpires immediately declare dead ball and award two bases to each runner.

R1, who was near 2B when it was caught had only retreated a couple steps when dead ball was declared. So he stops and advances to third, legally touching second on the way.

defensive team appeals to first base that R1 never legally returned to retouch 1B after the catch.

what’s your call?
 
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