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BHiatt

Well-known member
Question: There was a match this weekend where an illegal figure 4 around the body while running a power half was called. The figure 4 was called immediately upon application. The wrestler who had the figure 4 applied to him then was holding his shoulder. The referee initially signaled injury time but then changed it to recovery time. The wrestler couldn’t recover because his shoulder was hurt and he won the match. My question is does an injury to a body part that was not affected by an illegal hold, should that be considered recovery time or injury time?
 

StillNeutral

New member
Just curious but what would the call be for a wrestler intentionally grabbing another wrestler by the crotch while trying not to get pinned? I saw it Friday in the state tournament and the ref didn't see it the wrestle did get pinned as it happens so it didn't affect the outcome.
so this wasn't an act of the bottom man trying to push the leg away and the hand goes into the crotch during action and is unintentional? was this from your view, and obvious 5 on 2
 

eyes r burning

Well-known member
Can I get an unbiased honest opinion on 106lb Fenton vs Skinner state semifinal match? I'm hoping someone with referee experience/knowledge can share there thoughts on the match. There is a couple of calls/non-calls that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on for me. The 1st is the stall call with 7 seconds left in the 2nd period. The second one is in the 3rd period between the 635 and 655 mark. The ref raises his hand 3/4 of the way to award a takedown but no pts were given. Thoughts and or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

The match can be viewed on GOhioCast on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/user/zzsmiller
Perfectly officiated. The last scramble was the closest of the two, but there wasn't definite restraint within reaction time on either scramble.
 

350zjk

Member
Go ahead, cast the first stone!

My second stone (observation) would be that you were so consumed with desire to win that you ignored some of the more important points of scholastic competition. Those, in addition to being a good role model for teens, would include sportsmanship and class. They can actually still exist in a loss.
 

StillNeutral

New member
Question: There was a match this weekend where an illegal figure 4 around the body while running a power half was called. The figure 4 was called immediately upon application. The wrestler who had the figure 4 applied to him then was holding his shoulder. The referee initially signaled injury time but then changed it to recovery time. The wrestler couldn’t recover because his shoulder was hurt and he won the match. My question is does an injury to a body part that was not affected by an illegal hold, should that be considered recovery time or injury time?
Interesting question never came across that scenario, tough to answer I'd have to take this one to my board, or even a state rules interpretor
 

jfide650

New member
Interesting question never came across that scenario, tough to answer I'd have to take this one to my board, or even a state rules interpretor
If the wrestler is injured by an illegal hold/maneuver, recovery time will be used.
If the injury is not caused by an illegal hold/maneuver, injury time is used.
StillNeutral, if you are a ref, your answer can be found in the Wrestling Case Book
And Manual 8.2.2 situation D. The scenario is of a wrestler having an illegal hold/maneuver applied to them and the injury is not the result of an illegal hold/maneuver. Hopefully that saves you from going to the board or state rules interpreter.
 

BHiatt

Well-known member
If the wrestler is injured by an illegal hold/maneuver, recovery time will be used.
If the injury is not caused by an illegal hold/maneuver, injury time is used.
StillNeutral, if you are a ref, your answer can be found in the Wrestling Case Book
And Manual 8.2.2 situation D. The scenario is of a wrestler having an illegal hold/maneuver applied to them and the injury is not the result of an illegal hold/maneuver. Hopefully that saves you from going to the board or state rules interpreter.
Thanks for this jfide650. So per the rule, the ref thought the figure 4 around the body caused the shoulder injury. Very interesting.
 

suplex21

Active member
Thanks for this jfide650. So per the rule, the ref thought the figure 4 around the body caused the shoulder injury. Very interesting.
I did not see it, so I could be off and I have no clue who was involved.
But playing devils advocate...could the use of a figure 4, provide more stability and in turn torque to the shoulder. So even though it is to a diff part of the body, could it be that the illegal hold played a role (no matter how small) so the ref called recovery time.
 

BHiatt

Well-known member
I did not see it, so I could be off and I have no clue who was involved.
But playing devils advocate...could the use of a figure 4, provide more stability and in turn torque to the shoulder. So even though it is to a diff part of the body, could it be that the illegal hold played a role (no matter how small) so the ref called recovery time.
Seems about as likely as the Bengals winning a Super Bowl in 2020.
 

Ohio guy

New member
You ask about grabbing the crotch but that could mean something other than what I would guess you are meaning.
Depending on how the the official viewed it, it could/should be considered as illegal (any move which involves unnecessary force applied to an opponent), UNR (pretty obvious), or flagrant misconduct.
If I saw it happen, I would lean toward the later. There is simply no excuse for that.
Thanks that's pretty much what I figured and yes I did mean exactly what you're thinking the kid on bottom had a pretty firm grip and it lasted a good 5 seconds. Like I said it didn't affect the outcome or anything I was just curious.
 

theshark130

New member
I did not see it, so I could be off and I have no clue who was involved.
But playing devils advocate...could the use of a figure 4, provide more stability and in turn torque to the shoulder. So even though it is to a diff part of the body, could it be that the illegal hold played a role (no matter how small) so the ref called recovery time.
This was my thought.:)
 

wjjsj

Unbias Nation
Would like some clarification on how untied show laces should be called during a match?
Shoe laces are to be secured and laced completely to the top eyelet.

An improperly secured shoelace is no longer a technical violation. The penalty is a stalling violation (Rule 7-6-6d). A charged injury time-out is also assessed to correct the violation (per NHFS).

Double knotting is again an acceptable means to secure the shoelaces (see the note under Rule 4-1-3 in the Rules Book). Examples of other acceptable shoelace securing means includes:
· Velcro™ Flap
· Built-In Shoelace Pocket
· Tape (around the ankles or around each bow of the knot)
· A Zipper covered with a Velcro Flap is also an acceptable securing means.

If a shoelace that is tied comes out of an acceptable securing means, stop the match (official’s time-out) and permit the wrestler to re-secure the tied shoelace. There is no stalling violation or injury time-out assessed in this situation. If a double knotted shoelace comes undone but remains tied in a single knot, stop the match (official’s time-out) and permit the wrestler to re-secure the tied shoelace in a double knot. These situations are treated in the same manner as any other legal equipment that becomes illegal through competition.

If a shoelace comes out of the acceptable securing means and becomes untied, a stalling violation will be assessed, and an injury time-out will be charged to the offending wrestler to correct the violation. A double knotted shoelace that completely becomes untied is a stalling violation, and an injury time-out is charged to the offending wrestler to correct the violation.

If for any reason a shoe comes off the foot during a match (regardless if it was properly secured), the offending wrestler (the shoeless wrestler) is assessed a technical violation, and an injury time-out is charged to correct the violation.
 

MPhillips

Well-known member
How's that for clarification Dion?
Five paragraphs on shoelaces. Poor officials, no wonder there's a shortage.
Thanks, wjjsj
 

innoshape

Member
MPhillips: Yep. A flow chart is needed for shoelaces now. Gotta inspect the wrestlers shoes before match starts to see if properly secured even if this was instructed during pre-event meeting. Gotta remember that unsecured shoelace stall call for later with stalling in separate penalty chart or shoe came off TV for the progressive penalty chart. But ref, it was double knotted. If it came untied completely, then it wasn't properly secured, eh? As if there is not enough to decide in a split second during a match. Just have the wrestlers wrestle in their bare feet, make sure toenails are trim, no fungus, etc. Oh nevermind!
 
MPhillips: Yep. A flow chart is needed for shoelaces now. Gotta inspect the wrestlers shoes before match starts to see if properly secured even if this was instructed during pre-event meeting. Gotta remember that unsecured shoelace stall call for later with stalling in separate penalty chart or shoe came off TV for the progressive penalty chart. But ref, it was double knotted. If it came untied completely, then it wasn't properly secured, eh? As if there is not enough to decide in a split second during a match. Just have the wrestlers wrestle in their bare feet, make sure toenails are trim, no fungus, etc. Oh nevermind!
Imagine if you penalized any other sport for shoe laces. Guy runs for 87 yards on the kick off and the back judge notices a shoe comes untied. Stops the return to assess a 15 yard penalty, award the other team a touchdown and takes a time out away from the coach. Complete buffoonery.
 

pete

Member
Imagine if you penalized any other sport for shoe laces. Guy runs for 87 yards on the kick off and the back judge notices a shoe comes untied. Stops the return to assess a 15 yard penalty, award the other team a touchdown and takes a time out away from the coach. Complete buffoonery.
Or that same back judge yelling at the kid to run to the center of the field. ;)
 

AdenaCoach

Active member
Decals or stickers on headgear?? Been to 3 tournaments so far. Tournament 1 & 2 didn’t say a word. Tournament 3 called it before a match because another coach pointed it out. Bought from the company that made my teams singlets, warm ups, etc. vent holes not covered. Rumor is that is a rule change this year?? Help with this one is appreciated.
 

AdenaCoach

Active member
Decals or stickers on headgear?? Been to 3 tournaments so far. Tournament 1 & 2 didn’t say a word. Tournament 3 called it before a match because another coach pointed it out. Bought from the company that made my teams singlets, warm ups, etc. vent holes not covered. Rumor is that is a rule change this year?? Help with this one is appreciated.
 

Attachments

5Count

New member
Have any of the refs on here ever called a flagrant misconduct for a cross face?
I haven't called flagrant misconduct but unnecessary roughness as a result of a cross face. I didn't see what you are referring to but it it was enough like a punch I suppose it could be called.
 

Jap Whizzer

New member
Question about weight certification. Wrestler A has a Minimum Weight Allowance of 105.8 on 12/31/19. He has wrestled 113 all season including taking the weight allowance after Christmas (weighed out at 114.9 at a tournament). Can he still wrestle 106 if he makes scratch once and competes?
 

350zjk

Member
The Top Gun 120# finals match ended abruptly with a deliberate head butt. I believe it was a flagrant misconduct call. Should the offending wrestler be award second place on the awards stand. Tournament results show the wrestler finishing second. Is it wrong if I Photoshop the wrestler out of my podium shot?

Link to Results
https://sikorasoftsystems.com/Topgun/Brackets/Final/FullBrackets.pdf

Hi Bill,

If a wrestler was DQ for a flagrant offense he would lose ALL pts. earned. Therefore, he would not place in the tournament.
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
I’m guessing your question is whether or not the wrestler should have been allowed on the podium for awards?
But you said results show he placed second, but your link shows 2nd place as “flagrant misconduct”, so unless he has a really unfortunate name, it looks like the results show he did not place second.

The Top Gun 120# finals match ended abruptly with a deliberate head butt. I believe it was a flagrant misconduct call. Should the offending wrestler be award second place on the awards stand. Tournament results show the wrestler finishing second. Is it wrong if I Photoshop the wrestler out of my podium shot?

Link to Results
https://sikorasoftsystems.com/Topgun/Brackets/Final/FullBrackets.pdf
 

wdanforth

Member
I’m guessing your question is whether or not the wrestler should have been allowed on the podium for awards?
But you said results show he placed second, but your link shows 2nd place as “flagrant misconduct”, so unless he has a really unfortunate name, it looks like the results show he did not place second.
The results have been changed/corrected. Listed a 6-4 decision originally.
 
So was a new emphasis on stalling introduced this weekend. Today at the all-north at Jerome have seen new standard for stalling called. In several different situations. I know we are getting ready for post season but stuff not called at the bigger tournaments all of a sudden called. The list is to long but had to ask the question
 

Cakes

Member
Seen this twice this weekend both in OT, can someone provide me with the framework for the appropriate amount of “reaction time” or some type of guidelines for evaluating it. Both scenarios it appeared that two different wrestlers secured a takedown but the referees allowed for reaction time negating the 2 in on circumstance and essentially allowing for what can only be described as reversal in another circumstance
 

mlagdd

Member
Injury time - wrestler was injured during match. Ref stops it and tells the table to start injury time. Table puts 2 minutes on the scoreboard clock (seen by the wrestlers and crowd). With 1 minute left, ref says to the coach that clock was set wrong and the wrestler actually only has 30 seconds remaining. The coach asks the wrestler if he can continue. He says yeah, stands up, snaps headgear and walks to center and both wrestlers get in stance. (Looked at clock there was 36 seconds left as he steps in center circle - so 6 seconds according to the refs time). Ref walks to them, says shake hands, match is over time expired. Both wrestlers and coaches were confused and ref wouldn't even go to the table as the coach tried to inquire about it. Really never seen anything like this happen before. Never asked the wrestler if he was continuing nor gave an update on time. Injured wrestler was winning 6-0 at the time. Does the ref have an obligation to ask the wrestler as time is expiring and/or give an update on time?
 
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