Ask The Ref?

Possibly a dumb question, but I saw this this past weekend and never thought about it: If a team realizes they have 12 men on the field and the 12th man runs off, but to the other team's sideline to avoid 12 men on the field, is this against any specific rule/what would the penalty be?
 
The Working Man said:
Possibly a dumb question, but I saw this this past weekend and never thought about it: If a team realizes they have 12 men on the field and the 12th man runs off, but to the other team's sideline to avoid 12 men on the field, is this against any specific rule/what would the penalty be?
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Not a dumb question at all. The answer is yes, there is a rule and it is a dead ball foul for illegal substitution. NFHS rules reference is 3-7-2.


ART. 2 ... A player, replaced player or a substitute is required to leave the field at the side on which his team box is located and go directly to his team box.
 
The Working Man said:
Possibly a dumb question, but I saw this this past weekend and never thought about it: If a team realizes they have 12 men on the field and the 12th man runs off, but to the other team's sideline to avoid 12 men on the field, is this against any specific rule/what would the penalty be?
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Not a dumb question at all...

You can only exit the field directly into your team box....

The foul is Illegal Substitution, and the penalty is 5 yards.

Oops..... zebra beat me to it... ;)
 
Can you explain the rule regarding knee pad? Some players pants are no long enough to cover the knees. It seems like ever once in awhile a player gets sent out by a ref.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
Just confirming this rule is the same in HS, but when a first down is made inside the 10, the clock does NOT stop since there are not chain resets, correct?
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That's not a rule in NFHS (or NCAA). The clock rules for a first down inbounds inside the +10 are exactly the same as anywhere else on the field. The clock stops when the line to gain is reached and restarts on the Referee's signal.

And I'm pretty sure that "inside the 10" has nothing to do with the NFL rule. NFL never stops the clock on a first down inbounds, I believe.
 
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Interesting, I was watching a game last Sat where the clock did not stop on a first down made inside the 10 and first time I had noticed it. I guess there is a reason.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
Interesting, I was watching a game last Sat where the clock did not stop on a first down made inside the 10 and first time I had noticed it. I guess there is a reason.
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In a red zone situation, officials shouldn't have any reason to take a long time getting the ball set, so the clock should stop and restart pretty quickly.
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
Can you explain the rule regarding knee pad? Some players pants are no long enough to cover the knees. It seems like ever once in awhile a player gets sent out by a ref.
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- Rule 1-5-1(d) lists the pads and protective equipment that are required of all players. (the head coach verifies to the Referee during the pre game conference that all his players are legally equipped)

Section 2 of that rule pertains to knee pads....

"Knee pads which are unaltered from the manufacturer’s original design/production, which are worn over the knee and under the pants and shall be at least ½ inch thick or 3/8 inch thick if made of shock absorbing material".


- Rule 1-5-5 addresses what happens if a player fails to wear his/her equipment properly... (rule change in 2018)

"When any required player equipment is missing or worn improperly, an official's time-out shall be declared. If the missing or improperly worn equipment is detected during the down or subsequent dead-ball action related to the down without being directly attributable to a foul by an opponent or if a player is wearing otherwise legal equipment in an illegal manner, the player shall be replaced for at least one down, unless halftime or an overtime intermission occurs. If proper and legal equipment has become improperly worn through use but prompt repair is possible and does not delay the ready-for-play signal for more than 25 seconds, such repair may be made without replacing the player for at least one down"


If a player's pants aren't long enough to cover the knee, then that player needs new pants. Realizing this three plays into the game isn't an excuse. If that player wants to play, he'll find new pants. Generally, when we tell them to cover the knees, they end up rolling the pants down to where they are supposed to be.
 
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KramericaIndustries said:
Interesting, I was watching a game last Sat where the clock did not stop on a first down made inside the 10 and first time I had noticed it. I guess there is a reason.
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A situation like 3rd and short from the 7 that becomes 1st and goal from the 5 could be a situation where the clock momentarily stops for the first down, but restarts quickly due to the short distance the box needs. Since it's first and goal, the chains aren't an issue.

If the clock simply did not stop, it's due to an error, most likely by the clock operator.
 
Just got roped into running the game clock tonight. As a first-timer who has a basic understanding of football but cannot pretend to differentiate between HS, College, NFL, I have a couple of questions:

Do I stop the clock at the appropriate times or wait for an official's signal (i.e. incomplete pass, ball carrier steps out of bounds, runner down after a change of possession, etc.)?

If the ball carrier goes out of bounds, does the game clock start with the next snap?

Are there any other signals to wind the game clock other than the winding/windmill motion?

Running clock stops after a score or change of possession and resumes when ball is spotted?

I do have a copy of the NFHS General Instructions for Football Game and Play Clock Operators.
 
green_genes said:
Just got roped into running the game clock tonight. As a first-timer who has a basic understanding of football but cannot pretend to differentiate between HS, College, NFL, I have a couple of questions:

Do I stop the clock at the appropriate times or wait for an official's signal (i.e. incomplete pass, ball carrier steps out of bounds, runner down after a change of possession, etc.)?

If the ball carrier goes out of bounds, does the game clock start with the next snap?

Are there any other signals to wind the game clock other than the winding/windmill motion?

Running clock stops after a score or change of possession and resumes when ball is spotted?

I do have a copy of the NFHS General Instructions for Football Game and Play Clock Operators.
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Study that, and talk to the officials before the game tonight. 6:00 in their locker room would be good.
 
green_genes said:
Just got roped into running the game clock tonight. As a first-timer who has a basic understanding of football but cannot pretend to differentiate between HS, College, NFL, I have a couple of questions:

Do I stop the clock at the appropriate times or wait for an official's signal (i.e. incomplete pass, ball carrier steps out of bounds, runner down after a change of possession, etc.)?

If the ball carrier goes out of bounds, does the game clock start with the next snap?

Are there any other signals to wind the game clock other than the winding/windmill motion?

Running clock stops after a score or change of possession and resumes when ball is spotted?

I do have a copy of the NFHS General Instructions for Football Game and Play Clock Operators.
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Please review this document, print it and take it to the game with you. It's 100% relevant to OHSAA contests....



Now, you have to go into this gig with the following mindset --->>> You are not there to watch the game. You are there to watch the officials. You are part of the officiating crew.

You have a job to do. If you watch the game instead of the officials, you will make mistakes. (this will require complete focus on your part..... take a few yellow post-its with you with a reminder to watch the crew, not the game)

Focus on the crew at the end of plays. Listen for the whistle and watch for the signals that are associates with stopping the clock. (Timeout Signal, Incomplete Pass Signal, Any Score Signal, or Touchback Signal)

Anytime the clock is stopped, get your eyes on the Referee (White Hat). Do not start the clock unless he winds it. (if he forgets to wind it after a legal snap, go ahead and start the clock)

Thanks for doing this.... A good GCO makes for an easier evening for the officials and the teams.

(and as chs noted, find out where the officials are an hour before the game and meet with them. Be sure to tell them that you are new. This will avoid them making assumptions and will ensure a thorough pre-game meeting with them)
 
Good advice here. Absolutely have a pre-game with them. The biggest thing is that you watch the officials and do what they tell you to do. Don't assume that what you think you see from the press box is what is actually happening.

For instance: your question about the runner going out of bounds. Let's say the runner made the line to gain and then his forward progress was stopped in bounds and he was pushed OOB. The officials will stop the clock because he made the line to gain, but then R will wind it. If you assume the clock was stopped because the runner went OOB, you will have an unhappy R. If R tells you to run the clock when he shouldn't have...that's his fault.

It has to be something VERY obvious (in official speak, they call it "crewsaving") for you to start/stop the clock when no official tells you to. I've had obvious incomplete passes fall and nobody waved their arms. I stopped the clock anyways. As Allsports12 said, if R doesn't wind the clock on the snap...start the clock anyways.
 
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Make sure you ask the officials to explain the running clock situation to you. Many of them will still use the same signals as in a normal clock operation and it can be confusing for someone who is not familiar with the process.
 
At a game tonight where there have been 3 false starts called on kickoffs. No one has moved, and white hat has motioned towards the line to get orderly. Everyone seems to be behind the 35. Any ideas as to what’s going on?
 
TigerTown15 said:
At a game tonight where there have been 3 false starts called on kickoffs. No one has moved, and white hat has motioned towards the line to get orderly. Everyone seems to be behind the 35. Any ideas as to what’s going on?
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Who announced the fouls as False Starts ?

From what you posted, it sounds like it was a kickoff alignment infraction as only the kicker is permitted to be positioned beyond the 35 yard line. If that was the case, then the whistle is blown immediately when the ball is kicked.
The foul is a dead ball foul for Encroachment
 
Is there any provision in the high school rules for forcing a team to take a timeout due to an injury? Under 2:00 to go, Team A (which has two timeouts left) is losing and driving for the go-ahead score. A running play is stopped short of the line to gain and a lineman lays injured on the field. I’m not saying shenanigans were involved, and a timeout was not assessed, but curious if there is ever a situation where one would be?
 
Reddengineer said:
Simple question. Player is ejected. May he remain on the sideline, in uniform or out?
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Remember that in high school sports, ejected players have to be supervised. I can tell you that in soccer and baseball/softball, ejected players remain in the team area. I don't know the football rule 100%, but I can tell you that the concept of supervision is the premise.
 
bucksman said:
Remember that in high school sports, ejected players have to be supervised. I can tell you that in soccer and baseball/softball, ejected players remain in the team area. I don't know the football rule 100%, but I can tell you that the concept of supervision is the premise.
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That is a point, but not the official’s problem though is it?
 
serpico said:
Is there any provision in the high school rules for forcing a team to take a timeout due to an injury? Under 2:00 to go, Team A (which has two timeouts left) is losing and driving for the go-ahead score. A running play is stopped short of the line to gain and a lineman lays injured on the field. I’m not saying shenanigans were involved, and a timeout was not assessed, but curious if there is ever a situation where one would be?
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No, an injury time out is an official's time out.

Officials should always err on the side of caution when it comes to something like this. If a team should suspect shenanigans are occurring, their administration need to address it at that level with the powers that be.
 
bucksman said:
Remember that in high school sports, ejected players have to be supervised. I can tell you that in soccer and baseball/softball, ejected players remain in the team area. I don't know the football rule 100%, but I can tell you that the concept of supervision is the premise.
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Years ago, the rule required the player to leave the field or court. On a couple of occasions a player trashed a bus and another trashed a locker room's bathroom/shower after they were sent off.

Because of that, the NFHS rulesmakers changed the rule allowing players that are ejected to remain in the bench, bench area, dugout, etc..... Should that player exhibit or continue to exhibit unsporting behavior, that player will then be required to leave. At that point it is on the team to make sure that player has adult supervision while still on the premises.
 
The QB wants to stop the clock, but he takes the snap in shotgun. Can he still spike the ball to kill the clock in this formation or is this intentional grounding?
 
College
Notre Dame FSU
ND player makes a great Int. Slides out of bounds in FSU team area. Gets unsportsmanlike for "Ripping his helmet off". He was OOB when he did it. Thoughts
 
USA70PP said:
College
Notre Dame FSU
ND player makes a great Int. Slides out of bounds in FSU team area. Gets unsportsmanlike for "Ripping his helmet off". He was OOB when he did it. Thoughts
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Straight out of the NCAA rule book…

“No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use
abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

(f) A player removing his helmet after the ball is dead and before he is in the team area (Exceptions: Team, media or injury timeouts; equipment adjustment; through play; between periods; and during a measurement for a first down).”

The crew has no choice but to penalize that action. The fact that he was out of bounds doesn’t matter because he wasn’t in his team’s box.

NFHS does not have a specific rule making that action a foul. It would be a judgment call as to whether or not the crew rules the action as unsportsmanlike.
 
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zebrastripes said:
Straight out of the NCAA rule book…

“No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use
abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

(f) A player removing his helmet after the ball is dead and before he is in the team area (Exceptions: Team, media or injury timeouts; equipment adjustment; through play; between periods; and during a measurement for a first down).”

The crew has no choice but to penalize that action. The fact that he was out of bounds doesn’t matter because he wasn’t in his team’s box.

NFHS does not have a specific rule making that action a foul. It would be a judgment call as to whether or not the crew rules the action as unsportsmanlike.
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Thanks
 
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