Ask The Ref?

Rules on illegal contact and PI before ball is thrown?

Can a defender de-cleat/Jam a receiver before the ball is thrown under 5 yards anywhere on the field?

Ex. Receiver runs a vertical route but defender knocks him down at or before 5 yards.
Ex. Receiver runs an under route but LB knocks him down under 5 yards.

Does the 5 yards matter and can defenders completely de-cleat receivers or is that targeting? Thanks!
 
Defensive pass interference restrictions do not begin until the pass is thrown. And there is no "5-yard chuck" zone in NFHS like there is in the NFL.

That said, 9-2-3-d says a defensive player shall not contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker. It's illegal use of hands and a 10 yard penalty.
 
CadenMFB said:
Rules on illegal contact and PI before ball is thrown?

Can a defender de-cleat/Jam a receiver before the ball is thrown under 5 yards anywhere on the field?

Ex. Receiver runs a vertical route but defender knocks him down at or before 5 yards.
Ex. Receiver runs an under route but LB knocks him down under 5 yards.

Does the 5 yards matter and can defenders completely de-cleat receivers or is that targeting? Thanks!
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HS does not have the NFL illegal contact foul, so there's no 5-yard limit. But, as Altor says, it's a foul to contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker. We interpret that as saying: if the receiver is even with or beyond the defender, significant (more than just hands) contact is a foul.

So, in your first play, if the receiver is in front of the defender, that's nothing; if he's going around and getting past when the contact occurs, it's a foul. In your second play, as I'm envisioning this, the receiver is running past and in front of the LB, who initiates the contact as the receiver pulls even with him—and that's a foul.

As for "de-cleating": that's not a rules term. Big hits are sometimes legal, sometimes targeting (if the contact is above the shoulders), and sometimes illegal blindside blocks.
 
This is one that has had me scratching my head for years. If it has been addressed earlier, I apologize - as I don't have the gumption to leaf through 100 pages of this thread.

It has to do with dead ball personal fouls.

Here is a typical situation. Team A is on offense and runs a play that is going to net a first down. One of the defensive players, going full speed already, cannot pull up in time and they blast the ball carrier near the sidelines. Offensive players don't like this - and they rough up the defender out of bounds after the whistles have blown ending the previous play..

Flags come out - dead ball, personal foul on the offense.

How this is always enforced is the first down is awarded, then ball is moved back 15 yards, then the offense returns to play with a first and ten.

My question is - if it is a dead ball foul, why is it not 1st and 25? It would be that way if it happened on second or third down. Doesn't dead ball mean the previous play counts?

Little help please.......
 
This stems from when a new series is awarded in 5-2 and when the line-to-gain is established according to 2-26-5. The new series is awarded at the end of the down (not withstanding any live ball fouls that need penalized). The line-to-gain is not established until the ready-to-play signal. When that line-to-gain is established, it is 10 yards beyond the spot of the ball (with the lone exception if that line is in the end zone). So, barring a penalty after that ready-for-play, it is always 1st-and-10 (or 1st-and-Goal).
 
Thank you for your answer - and I see how it is justified by rule. It's just that the rule doesn't make sense to me, not real consistent.
 
KCI, but the punt was recovered, followed by BIB on the return.

Offsetting?

R would have to accept the KCI penalty, correct?
 
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AllSports12 said:
Now, if a player intentionally goes out of bounds and Influence the play or intentionally touch the ball, that player is guilty of illegal participation.
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Didn't this happen during the D1 final on a kickoff?

Springfield kicked offed to EDs and the receiver seemed to be hoping the ball would go out of bounds for a penalty. That didn't happen, so he stepped out of bounds and grabbed the ball. Officials ruled it a kick out of bounds and EDs started at their 35.

Was this a mistaken call?
 
Captain_Cavman said:
Didn't this happen during the D1 final on a kickoff?

Springfield kicked offed to EDs and the receiver seemed to be hoping the ball would go out of bounds for a penalty. That didn't happen, so he stepped out of bounds and grabbed the ball. Officials ruled it a kick out of bounds and EDs started at their 35.

Was this a mistaken call?
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If the official judged that the player intentionally went out of bounds and touched the ball then the player would be guilty of illegal participation …. R would be penalized 15 yards from the spot of the foul, 1st and 10. previous spot and we would re-kick the ball. (*** EDIT *** -- nice grab by @chs1971 to point out the mistake)

if it wasn’t judged intentional, then K has fouled by kicking the ball out of bounds…. R then gets to choose the enforcement options afforded to them by rule, one of them being placing the ball at the 35yd line
 
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AllSports12 said:
If the official judged that the player intentionally went out of bounds and touched the ball then the player would be guilty of illegal participation …. R would be penalized 15 yards from the spot of the foul, 1st and 10.

if it wasn’t judged intentional, then K has fouled by kicking the ball out of bounds…. R then gets to choose the enforcement options afforded to them by rule, one of them being placing the ball at the 35yd line
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Not a loose ball play and penalized from the previous spot?
 
AllSports12 said:
If the official judged that the player intentionally went out of bounds and touched the ball then the player would be guilty of illegal participation …. R would be penalized 15 yards from the spot of the foul, 1st and 10.

if it wasn’t judged intentional, then K has fouled by kicking the ball out of bounds…. R then gets to choose the enforcement options afforded to them by rule, one of them being placing the ball at the 35yd line
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The "intentional" judgement tends to be the one that's usually controversial with fans. 😉
 
AllSports12 said:
If the official judged that the player intentionally went out of bounds and touched the ball then the player would be guilty of illegal participation …. R would be penalized 15 yards from the spot of the foul, 1st and 10.

if it wasn’t judged intentional, then K has fouled by kicking the ball out of bounds…. R then gets to choose the enforcement options afforded to them by rule, one of them being placing the ball at the 35yd line
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Same situation but while inbounds R kicks the ball OB. Where is the ball to be spotted?
 
Receiver makes a catch on the sideline and gets the bottom front of one foot inbounds before lifting it up. Had the heel come down it would have landed on the line. Maybe not enough info, but is there a rule that addresses this like in the NFL?
 
serpico said:
Receiver makes a catch on the sideline and gets the bottom front of one foot inbounds before lifting it up. Had the heel come down it would have landed on the line. Maybe not enough info, but is there a rule that addresses this like in the NFL?
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No. If all that touches is a toe before he steps again (or the foot otherwise moves off the spot), then it's a catch.

If the toe lands first but the heel lands out of bounds as he lands in a step, that's incomplete.

AFAIK, all codes interpret this the same way (though NFL requires 2 feet inbounds).
 
I know all levels have different rules but does the line extend out indefinitely over the sideline if the player is in bounds(talking last night OSU game). The Georgia kid kept his hand in bound but the ball was over the sideline. How does the spot get determined? I was under the assumption it was a first down when I saw the replay that he didn’t touch OOB but I really can’t find any rule that specifically addresses it.
 
NFHS 4.3.3

... the foremost point of the ball at the time the runner crosses the plane of the sideline.

Note that it is not when he touches OOB.
 
Altor said:
Looks like it was 2019.

Football Rules Changes - 2019

The NFHS is the national leader and advocate for high school athletics as well as fine and performing arts programs. Within our 51 member state associations, we serve 19,500 high schools and more than 12 million young people.
www.nfhs.org www.nfhs.org
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Having less than 7 on the line is only legal if you have fewer than 11 players on the field. Even by the new rule you have to have "no more than 4 backs". Look at slides 14 and 15 here: https://www.nmact.org/file/FB_PPt-19-20.pdf
 
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