Ask The Ref?

Ericles

Well-known member
My question is what can schools do from their end to help recruit refs and make it more attractive?
After our girls basketball scrimmage yesterday, one of the officials brought the players from the three teams together and spoke to them for about 5 minutes about considering becoming officials as well as a few points of emphasis. I had never seen that before.
 

Journey

Well-known member
Not having enough officials is a brewing storm. And I don’t know much, but guarantee the OHSAA will not be a part of the solution.
 

maven

Member
Referees wave off the TD and place the ball at the spot of the muff. The refs inform the coach that you cannot advance an onside kick.
Not just an onside kick: the kicking team cannot advance any kick, including punts.

Now if the kick is over because the receiver gained possession, and he then fumbled it—that's something the kicking team can recover and advance.
 
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maven

Member
Is there a limit to the number of out-of-bound penalties on an attempted kickoff?
Do you mean in a single game, or back-to-back KO attempts? I'm guessing the latter (and it sounds as if there might be a story behind the question?).

By rule, no, no limit, as chs says. But if a team intentionally does it over and over—and I mean at least 3 or 4 times in a row for a varsity kicker—the referee is authorized to treat it as an "unfair act" (Rule 9-9-1) and impose whatever penalty he deems fair in order to get the game going again.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Do you mean in a single game, or back-to-back KO attempts? I'm guessing the latter (and it sounds as if there might be a story behind the question?).

By rule, no, no limit, as chs says. But if a team intentionally does it over and over—and I mean at least 3 or 4 times in a row for a varsity kicker—the referee is authorized to treat it as an "unfair act" (Rule 9-9-1) and impose whatever penalty he deems fair in order to get the game going again.
A simple (to R's coach) "hey coach, you the ball is yours 5 yards ahead of where it went out of bounds" should stop this silliness after the 2nd or 3rd time..... 😉
 

simkon

Well-known member
The reason the question was asked was I and another poster on here once saw a game in which after the 3rd consecutive kick off out of bounds, they gave the coach two options only, to take the ball so many yards from the spot of the kickoff or where it went out of bounds, and did not give the option to rekick from 5 yards further back.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
The reason the question was asked was I and another poster on here once saw a game in which after the 3rd consecutive kick off out of bounds, they gave the coach two options only, to take the ball so many yards from the spot of the kickoff or where it went out of bounds, and did not give the option to rekick from 5 yards further back.
If that's what happened, then the officials erred in what they did. The options are either offered as prescribed by rule or the Referee invokes the "God Rule" and makes the ruling himself.

All that said, there is nothing illegal about strategically kicking the ball in a way that allows a team the chance to recover that free kick, even if the ball goes out of bounds repeatedly. If a coach somehow decides to repeatedly and intentially kick the ball out of bounds, there's some serious issues with said coach. Likewise, if the opponent of said coach keeps selecting the option of penalizing his opponent 5 yards from the previous spot and repeating the kick, he too has some issues that need to be addressed.

Neither of those decisions by the coaches make any sense whatsoever.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Do you mean in a single game, or back-to-back KO attempts? I'm guessing the latter (and it sounds as if there might be a story behind the question?).

By rule, no, no limit, as chs says. But if a team intentionally does it over and over—and I mean at least 3 or 4 times in a row for a varsity kicker—the referee is authorized to treat it as an "unfair act" (Rule 9-9-1) and impose whatever penalty he deems fair in order to get the game going again.
I'm not doing that. Every kick OOB is to R's advantage and no time should be coming off the clock.
 

garydaddy1

Well-known member
WHERE IS THE BALL PLACED WHEN A KICKOFF GOES OUT OF BOUNDS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE RECEIVING TEAM'S 34-1 YARD LINES AND THE BALL IS UNTOUCHED AND THE RECEIVING
TEAM DOESN'T WANT THE BALL REKICKED?
 
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AllSports12

Moderator
WHERE IS THE BALL PLACED WHEN A KICKOFF GOES OUT OF BOUNDS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE RECEIVING TEAM'S 34-1 YARD LINES AND THE BALL IS UNTOUCHED AND THE RECEIVING
TEAM DOESN'T WANT THE BALL REKICKED?
R has 4 choices on a free kick that goes out of bounds untouched between the goals lines.... (options b,c, or d apply to your question)

a. Accept a 5-yard penalty from the previous spot and have K rekick;
b. Accept a 5-yard penalty from the succeeding spot;
c. Put the ball in play at the inbounds spot 25 yards beyond the previous spot; or
d. Decline the penalty and put the ball in play at the inbounds spot.
 

CedarBuck92

Well-known member
R has 4 choices on a free kick that goes out of bounds untouched between the goals lines.... (options b,c, or d apply to your question)

a. Accept a 5-yard penalty from the previous spot and have K rekick;
b. Accept a 5-yard penalty from the succeeding spot;
c. Put the ball in play at the inbounds spot 25 yards beyond the previous spot; or
d. Decline the penalty and put the ball in play at the inbounds spot.
Is there really any reason that option D should be chosen?
 

TriangleMan

Well-known member
Kickoff to R's 10 yard line. R1 has one knee on the ground when he makes first contact with the ball (no possession), picks knee up, picks up ball and advances to R's 15 yard line. Ball is spotted at R's 15. Correct spot?
 

14Red

Well-known member
Question, so does high school football have the same rule that on 4th down, the only player that can advance a fumble is the one who fumbled? Saw a play last night, final minute where the QB fumbled, and a lineman picked up the ball and ran forward, didn't get the first down so there didn't need to be a ruling on it. Just made me think if he'd had got a first down or TD.
 

bb9

Active member
Question, so does high school football have the same rule that on 4th down, the only player that can advance a fumble is the one who fumbled? Saw a play last night, final minute where the QB fumbled, and a lineman picked up the ball and ran forward, didn't get the first down so there didn't need to be a ruling on it. Just made me think if he'd had got a first down or TD.
No HS rule on this. The ball can be advanced by any player. Actually happened in our game last night and gave the team a first down.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Question, in the game I was at last night. Pandora Gilboa scored a touchdown on a play where defensive pass interference was called. They were given the touchdown AND the penalty was assessed on the kickoff? This is wrong, isn't it? If they accepted the penalty, they lose the TD and get 15 yards, if they decline the penatly, they get the score. But you don't get both, do you?
 

bb9

Active member
Question, in the game I was at last night. Pandora Gilboa scored a touchdown on a play where defensive pass interference was called. They were given the touchdown AND the penalty was assessed on the kickoff? This is wrong, isn't it? If they accepted the penalty, they lose the TD and get 15 yards, if they decline the penatly, they get the score. But you don't get both, do you?
That was the correct call. Defensive penalties on scoring plays may be assessed on the succeeding kickoff.
 

JackEd

Well-known member
This was a college game today but I feel like with the playoffs happening it’s be a good idea to get the exact ruling. K in punt formation, high snap goes over K1s head by 20 yards, K1 picks up the ball and kicks it just before R1 hits him. Official calls roughing the passer and automatic first down. Correct call but opposing fans obviously went crazy.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
This was a college game today but I feel like with the playoffs happening it’s be a good idea to get the exact ruling. K in punt formation, high snap goes over K1s head by 20 yards, K1 picks up the ball and kicks it just before R1 hits him. Official calls roughing the passer and automatic first down. Correct call but opposing fans obviously went crazy.
By rule, unless contact is unavoidable because it is not reasonably certain that a kick will be made, it is roughing the kicker.

The snap hitting the ground and/or the ball being tipped is irrelevant to the ruling. The portion of the rule regarding the ball being tipped is different than the NCAA rule.

Also, under the NCAA rule the protection for the kicker ends when he carries or possesses the ball outside the tackle box before kicking the ball. That is not the case under NFHS Rules.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
In the LSU/Alabama game, offensive player fumbled the ball near the sideline. Defensive player was scooping up the ball when the offensive player knocked it loose (offensive player was laying out of bounds from the waist down). Defense recovered and was awarded the ball.

Officials overturned the call and gave it to the offensive team where the player laying out of bounds touched it. Said ball was dead when it was touched by player out of bounds. Is this the same call in HS?

An extension of this call, if a defender has both feet out of bounds and tips a pass before a receiver catches it, would that also be a dead ball?
 

TriangleMan

Well-known member
Last night in the Canton CC-Mogadore game, I nearly experienced a 'grand-slam' of incorrect rules knowledge on one play.

Mogadore's ball, 4th and 9 at the CC 11. Pass into the end zone. DPI called.

I whispered to my buddy "wait for it". From behind me I hear...

Fan1: "That was uncatchable!!!"
Fan2: "[expletive], automatic first down."
Fan3 (to Fan2): "There are no automatic first downs in high school."

Would've been a grand-slam if someone had said "They get the ball at the one."

This is the primary reason I enjoy this thread. Correct knowledge of the rules is a great asset.
 
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