2020-21 Rules Changes - no shot clock once again

carefree93

Active member
Having a game between teams that are so far different talent wise that one has to employ a strategy to limit the amount of possessions to the extreme that you've been touting, is a game that neither team honestly is gaining anything developmentally wise by playing each other. But for whatever reason they are playing each other. Most of these matchups aren't purposely created by either coach. Most times it's a league game they must play or a tournament game they were forced into.

So knowing that, you say you're for development first. Well that's not going to happen in this type of game. But it especially isn't going to happen if they do what you want, which is to just play straight up and one team win by an insane amount. Honestly, that type of game not only isn't positive developmentally wise, it's more detrimental to all of the players involved, with one team gaining bad habits due to the ease of play and the other not being able to do anything.

Sooooooooo, if you say you're for development, shouldn't you be for teams doing the stall technique? At least that limits the damage to the development of all players involved on both sides.
sometimes you kick a**, sometimes you get your a** kicked. There’s nothing wrong with losing to a better team. If you’re THAT inferior that you need to not play just to compete, you’re not winning that game under ANY circumstances. That has NOTHING to do with the shot clock argument.

thats never going to change, there will always be teams far better and far worse. why not just handicap it like horse racing then? The purpose of the game isn’t to ensure everyone has an equal opportunity to win. if that was the case, talent would be distributed evenly.
 
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carefree93

Active member
Having a game between teams that are so far different talent wise that one has to employ a strategy to limit the amount of possessions to the extreme that you've been touting, is a game that neither team honestly is gaining anything developmentally wise by playing each other. But for whatever reason they are playing each other. Most of these matchups aren't purposely created by either coach. Most times it's a league game they must play or a tournament game they were forced into.

So knowing that, you say you're for development first. Well that's not going to happen in this type of game. But it especially isn't going to happen if they do what you want, which is to just play straight up and one team win by an insane amount. Honestly, that type of game not only isn't positive developmentally wise, it's more detrimental to all of the players involved, with one team gaining bad habits due to the ease of play and the other not being able to do anything.

Sooooooooo, if you say you're for development, shouldn't you be for teams doing the stall technique? At least that limits the damage to the development of all players involved on both sides.
it’s also just one game -development is like a relationship. It’s nurtured over time. One game will never make or break a player.

and why the game is scheduled in the first place has nothing to do with the shot clock debate. Completely different topic.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
it’s also just one game -development is like a relationship. It’s nurtured over time. One game will never make or break a player.

and why the game is scheduled in the first place has nothing to do with the shot clock debate. Completely different topic.
One game doesn't make or break a player, but you'd be surprised how easily it can create bad habits, and slightly unravel good ones.
 

1 time

Active member
You better win at some point. That’s not fake news. As for the soft and splineless. There’s plenty of those boards and administrators.
 

carefree93

Active member
Yep...

Have only asked him three times for that list.
LOL - nothing like ignoring something that’s right in front of you.

This debate has been going on for years nationally with examples in every corner of the US. Simple google search will give PLENTY of examples. I guess this topic just came to us out of mid air. We were all searching for something to complain about and someone said “I have an idea, let’s push the shot clock for no reason whatsoever” LOL

the level of sheer obtuseness here is epic

LOL youre arguing probably the most debated and heated current high basketball topic in a decade isn’t real. You cant make this up. It’s unreal. We’re all just imagining the noise this topic has created.

LOL
 

AllSports12

Moderator
LOL - nothing like ignoring something that’s right in front of you.

This debate has been going on for years nationally with examples in every corner of the US. Simple google search will give PLENTY of examples. I guess this topic just came to us out of mid air. We were all searching for something to complain about and someone said “I have an idea, let’s push the shot clock for no reason whatsoever” LOL

the level of sheer obtuseness here is epic

LOL youre arguing probably the most debated and heated current high basketball topic in a decade isn’t real. You cant make this up. It’s unreal. We’re all just imagining the noise this topic has created.

LOL
Nice diatribe....

Now, about that list ? ;) .......... Which ironically is one of the main reasons why year after year this proposal has not passed. The proponents talk about all the games that holding the ball occurs in, yet when asked for hard evidence of these games, the proponents can only offer a handful, if that.

It's an isolated (at best) issue. That alone is not going to get the measure passed.

It's similar to residents of a neighborhood complaining that they need a traffic light at the main intersection into their area because of “all the collisions”........They then provide a number of incidents that simply do not justify the change........

That's the reality...... being told time and again why something isn't happening, but insisting it should happen anyway meets the pure definition of obtuse.
 
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zebrastripes

Active member
If you can't argue your point without saying "LOL" four times in a rebuttal, chances are you're not only wrong, but a petulant child.
 

1 time

Active member
Coaches are 50-50 , at best, on the shot clock. I personally hear very little on the subject. Most coaches know they’re going to have some bad teams and a shot clock gives them Zero chance to win.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Coaches are 50-50 , at best, on the shot clock. I personally hear very little on the subject. Most coaches know they’re going to have some bad teams and a shot clock gives them Zero chance to win.
And the pro-shot clock crowd is more vocal, so of course it's convenient for sports writers to cherrypick those coaches for their articles and fans to subsequently interpret them as being universally representative.

If there was as much coach support for a shot clock in Ohio as certain Yappi posters say there is, believe me, they are capable of getting it implemented. So I wonder why after all these years we still don't have it if there is such overwhelming support. 🤷‍♂️
 

carefree93

Active member
Coaches are 50-50 , at best, on the shot clock. I personally hear very little on the subject. Most coaches know they’re going to have some bad teams and a shot clock gives them Zero chance to win.
LOL - now you’re just backing up my points. Coach control - coaches give the illusion they’re all for it, but really they’re not because it limits their control. My contention the entire time is that coaches don’t want this because of reasons that impact THEM, not the kids.
 

carefree93

Active member
The misnomer is the shot clock improves scoring. That’s not the intent. The intent of a shot clock is to improve flow. Has nothing to do with points scored, shots attempted, or shots made. Those that continue to make this argument don’t truly understand the need for change.

coaches don’t want it changed because it limits their control. Ultimately, until the coaches realize they are simply a vessel for kids to enjoy and improve on the game, and not the main show, it will never change. The players are most important, and the players would love it.

why do they never poll the players?
and here?
 

carefree93

Active member
agreed - I think the biggest reason for this slow down style is because of coach control. They’re more concerned about their jobs than developing basketball players. Players today have the same amount of skills, you could argue even better with the addition of so much specialized training, they’re just not allowed to use it.
and this - coach ego is the MAIN reason for no shot clock
 

carefree93

Active member
Thats one of many reasons to analyze needing a shot clock. I don’t have the majority opinion that the shot clock should be implemented for more scoring and more exciting basketball. People keep attributing that to me and I have no idea why. People are so stuck responding to the “need more scoring” crowd they can’t think one second out of the box.

For the 8 millionth time, I think a shot could needs more focus because of the following:

1) it gives the players more freedom to use a wider range of their basketball skills - imo, coach control is one of the biggest issue in the decline of player development
2) in turn, that develops a more complete basketball player, which imo is better for the game, as there are too many players that don’t have multi dimensions to their games
3) it slows down the picking of the big strong football player to fill an “enforcer” role on the teams and leagues where they are allowed to abuse each other with no repercussions - develop the basketball players
4) it slows amount of fouls and free throws in end of game situations because you can use the clock to get more possessions, and
5) it prohibits coaches from holding the ball for an unlimited period of time

None of this has anything to do with my enjoyment or prohibiting teams from competing. IMO, all of these things better the product on the court. Why you keep attributing all of these others things to me is a mystery.
and this, where I say coach control is the number one reason for a shot clock. Why are they the only ones being asked? Why aren’t the players opinions being taken into account? Not saying they get to decide, but their opinions should be part of the conversation too.
 

1 time

Active member
LOL - now you’re just backing up my points. Coach control - coaches give the illusion they’re all for it, but really they’re not because it limits their control. My contention the entire time is that coaches don’t want this because of reasons that impact THEM, not the kids.
. Wow. You should go coach an average team for a year and a bad team for a year. Then you might have a clue what some of us are talking about. Everyone who had studs would probably want a 15 second shot clock.
 

Talk some sense

Active member
and this, where I say coach control is the number one reason for a shot clock. Why are they the only ones being asked? Why aren’t the players opinions being taken into account? Not saying they get to decide, but their opinions should be part of the conversation too.
Can't resist. You're ridiculous man. Now you reposting yourself and making comments to yourself. LOL LOL LOL LOL to you.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
I cant find anything else interesting in the rules list. What did I miss?
Nothing. It's a pretty typical rule change list. Every few years the NFHS will make a "big" change - most years it's just little tweaks that the majority of people don't even notice in a regular game. This is one of those years.
 
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