2020-21 Rules Changes - no shot clock once again

1 time

Active member
I wish we could have a shot clock of 45 seconds, but I think in today’s basketball it would be a disaster. Most basketball is not very good. Many boys scores look like many girls scores. Ugly. If you put a shot clock in , the average and bad teams have No chance to even make it close against above average teams. Very few teams are skilled enough to get a decent shot in 30 seconds. If you think it’s bad now, a shot would be even worse. Just my opinion.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
I wish we could have a shot clock of 45 seconds, but I think in today’s basketball it would be a disaster. Most basketball is not very good. Many boys scores look like many girls scores. Ugly. If you put a shot clock in , the average and bad teams have No chance to even make it close against above average teams. Very few teams are skilled enough to get a decent shot in 30 seconds. If you think it’s bad now, a shot would be even worse. Just my opinion.
The average possession in a HS game lasts less than 30 seconds - the length of the NCAA shot clock. A 30-second clock would be pointless, a 45-second clock would be laughable.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I wish we could have a shot clock of 45 seconds, but I think in today’s basketball it would be a disaster. Most basketball is not very good. Many boys scores look like many girls scores. Ugly. If you put a shot clock in , the average and bad teams have No chance to even make it close against above average teams. Very few teams are skilled enough to get a decent shot in 30 seconds. If you think it’s bad now, a shot would be even worse. Just my opinion.
I stoppped going to HS games awhile ago but still watch some on TV and such. Just seems like coaches micro manage every possession and dont allow the game to flow and go up and down the court nearly as much as they used to. Sure, there are more turnovers that way but it usually ended with many more possessions and points.

I sorta wish coaches will loosen the reigns a bit, dont treat every possession like 5 seconds left in game 7 of the NBA finals and let the kids play ball.

but that is just me.
 

1 time

Active member
For what it's worth, the average length of a possession currently sits at 22 seconds.
It’s 22 seconds because there’s usually 40 TOs in most HS games today. A lot of bad basketball. Off season basketball will improve the game. Don’t know when most of kids today will put in the extra time to do this. Shot clock will Not make the game better, just a little faster
 

1 time

Active member
I stoppped going to HS games awhile ago but still watch some on TV and such. Just seems like coaches micro manage every possession and dont allow the game to flow and go up and down the court nearly as much as they used to. Sure, there are more turnovers that way but it usually ended with many more possessions and points.

I sorta wish coaches will loosen the reigns a bit, dont treat every possession like 5 seconds left in game 7 of the NBA finals and let the kids play ball.

but that is just me.
You’re correct about the over coaching, but many just don’t have the Horses
 

AllSports12

Moderator
It’s 22 seconds because there’s usually 40 TOs in most HS games today. A lot of bad basketball. Off season basketball will improve the game. Don’t know when most of kids today will put in the extra time to do this. Shot clock will Not make the game better, just a little faster
Not sure where 40 TO’s comes from or the relevance if there were 40, but the 22 seconds is when a shot is attempted.
 

carefree93

Active member
I stoppped going to HS games awhile ago but still watch some on TV and such. Just seems like coaches micro manage every possession and dont allow the game to flow and go up and down the court nearly as much as they used to. Sure, there are more turnovers that way but it usually ended with many more possessions and points.

I sorta wish coaches will loosen the reigns a bit, dont treat every possession like 5 seconds left in game 7 of the NBA finals and let the kids play ball.

but that is just me.
this is issue number one in my opinion as well. Not nearly enough kids are even able to use the skill sets they have.
 

carefree93

Active member
It’s 22 seconds because there’s usually 40 TOs in most HS games today. A lot of bad basketball. Off season basketball will improve the game. Don’t know when most of kids today will put in the extra time to do this. Shot clock will Not make the game better, just a little faster
it would force coaches to teach offensive skills instead of just offensive sets. I don’t care what the polling of the coaches says, they know the introduction of a shot clock limits their control and they hate that.
 

carefree93

Active member
The misnomer is the shot clock improves scoring. That’s not the intent. The intent of a shot clock is to improve flow. Has nothing to do with points scored, shots attempted, or shots made. Those that continue to make this argument don’t truly understand the need for change.

coaches don’t want it changed because it limits their control. Ultimately, until the coaches realize they are simply a vessel for kids to enjoy and improve on the game, and not the main show, it will never change. The players are most important, and the players would love it.

why do they never poll the players?
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
The misnomer is the shot clock improves scoring. That’s not the intent. The intent of a shot clock is to improve flow. Has nothing to do with points scored, shots attempted, or shots made. Those that continue to make this argument don’t truly understand the need for change.

coaches don’t want it changed because it limits their control. Ultimately, until the coaches realize they are simply a vessel for kids to enjoy and improve on the game, and not the main show, it will never change. The players are most important, and the players would love it.

why do they never poll the players?
I don't believe any coach believes what you say they believe, zero.
 

carefree93

Active member
I don't believe any coach believes what you say they believe, zero.
I do, they’ve told me. They want to run their teams like they see fit, not have to change their tactics with the implementation of a shot clock.

If all of the coaches wanted it, it would be happening. The coaches all say they want it publicly, but Snodgrass has repeatedly said “our state wants to play by the NFHS rules”. So who is lying?

Either way, the kids aren’t at the center of the decision. There would be overwhelming support if the kids were polled. Why wouldn’t they ask them?
 
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Philly_Cat

Well-known member
I do, they’ve told me. They want to run their teams like they see fit, not have to change their tactics with the implementation of a shot clock.

If all of the coaches wanted it, it would be happening. The coaches all say they want it publicly, but Snodgrass has repeatedly said “our state wants to play by the NFHS rules”. So who is lying?

Either way, the kids aren’t at the center of the decision. There would be overwhelming support if the kids were polled. Why wouldn’t they ask them?
Your initial insinuation was that coaches just want to control their players and are more worried about themselves than the growth of their kids (read your 2nd paragraph). There are very few, if any, coaches in the game (high school and below and minus basketball prep schools) who's number one focus is not on the growth of the players on their teams. And the ones that have other priorities ahead of the kids don't last long coaching.

As far as your second point, the implementation of a shot clock should have little impact on coaching the game, unless we are talking about a 24 second clock or something really short like that, but I don't believe anyone that has suggested a high school shot clock has offered up a suggestion below 35. I could be mistaken given the hundreds of threads on the topic. A shot clock is not going to change how a coach coaches a game unless his game plan is to hold the ball. A shot clock does hinder the ability for teams up to just sit on the ball.

I keep hearing from people such as yourself and others of the like that coaches want to control their players like joysticks and run set plays. Well if they want to do that then those same coaches should be in favor of, not just a shot clock, but a short shot clock. You come down, run your play, then take the shot designed to be taken at the end of said set play. If it takes you a minute to run a set play, maybe you shouldn't be coaching in the first place.

Just my 2 cents on it all. I'm not for or against a shot clock.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Either way, the kids aren’t at the center of the decision. There would be overwhelming support if the kids were polled. Why wouldn’t they ask them?
Because kids aren't administrators and don't understand that there are many factors in play beyond their personal preference. There is a reason students don't run the OHSAA.
 

SMARTY22

Well-known member
Shot Clocks will not be involved in Ohio High School Basketball until Dictator DeWine tells Anal Acton that they are needed to flatten the curve🙄
 

zebrastripes

Active member
If all of the coaches wanted it, it would be happening. The coaches all say they want it publicly, but Snodgrass has repeatedly said “our state wants to play by the NFHS rules”. So who is lying?
OHSAA bylaws, which Snodgrass is not responsible for implementing, require games to be played by NFHS rules and only make state adoptions where allowable by rule. If the member schools really want a shot clock as much as you say they do, they can amend the bylaws. I wonder why that hasn't happened if there is so much support...
 

1 time

Active member
It just amazes me that we have people who believe a shot clock will magically make bad basketball better.
👏👏👏. Somebody finally gets it. For the millionth time, until most of these kids get off their phones/azzes , the game will only get worse. It has little to do with sets/shot clock.....
 

1 time

Active member
If a high school team can't get a shot off with a shot clock of 35-45 seconds then they should not be playing basketball.
A lot of them shouldn’t be playing. But God bless most of them. They’re trying and want to play for their school.
 

1 time

Active member
Not sure where 40 TO’s comes from or the relevance if there were 40, but the 22 seconds is when a shot is attempted.
Ii See your point. The TOs create layups quickly at the other end. Maybe a 5 second possession. Thus your average is 22 seconds. The rest of the possessions are much longer because most don’t have the skills to get a good shot the rest of the time.
 

carefree93

Active member
These aren’t my opinions. If you ask or research opinions on this subject, 9 out of 10 are for a shot clock. It’s overwhelming, from the players, to the coaches, to those that know the game, from past high school players - so what gives? There is overwhelming support to give it a try.

And I do believe it would alter coaching habits, in a good way. It would require more offensive skill development for more players. I would require more kids to generate offense. It obviously wouldn’t happen overnight, but would be much better for the sport on the long run.

Kids work and practice and train more today than ever before, but it doesn’t show up in the games because they don’t get to use any of it because they’re running sets every single minute of the game. That’s what has made the game hard to watch. A shot clock almost guarantees some free flowing action. That’s a good thing.

It provides a good mix of efficient sets and gives the flexibility for offensive creation. Best of both worlds.
 

Insane92

Active member
These aren’t my opinions. If you ask or research opinions on this subject, 9 out of 10 are for a shot clock. It’s overwhelming, from the players, to the coaches, to those that know the game, from past high school players - so what gives? There is overwhelming support to give it a try.

And I do believe it would alter coaching habits, in a good way. It would require more offensive skill development for more players. I would require more kids to generate offense. It obviously wouldn’t happen overnight, but would be much better for the sport on the long run.

Kids work and practice and train more today than ever before, but it doesn’t show up in the games because they don’t get to use any of it because they’re running sets every single minute of the game. That’s what has made the game hard to watch. A shot clock almost guarantees some free flowing action. That’s a good thing.

It provides a good mix of efficient sets and gives the flexibility for offensive creation. Best of both worlds.
I disagree with the game being hard to watch today. Nothing wrong with running sets and watching a good fundamental team scoring off good passing on a pass is still beautiful to watch. Watching teams press the whole game, go 1 on 5 in the half court and turn the ball over 20 times a game. Now that’s hard to watch at times.
 

carefree93

Active member
OHSAA bylaws, which Snodgrass is not responsible for implementing, require games to be played by NFHS rules and only make state adoptions where allowable by rule. If the member schools really want a shot clock as much as you say they do, they can amend the bylaws. I wonder why that hasn't happened if there is so much support...
Tell us why - everything I read and polling of coaches says it’s 75-80% in favor. So you tell me.
 

carefree93

Active member
I disagree with the game being hard to watch today. Nothing wrong with running sets and watching a good fundamental team scoring off good passing on a pass is still beautiful to watch. Watching teams press the whole game, go 1 on 5 in the half court and turn the ball over 20 times a game. Now that’s hard to watch at times.
All of those things would still exist with a shot clock. A shot clock isn’t this magic potion that makes everyone great (Or terrible) at basketball. You can still run great sets and have great execution, you can still play uptempo, you can still play methodical. All could be done successfully. Sloppy teams would still turn it over 20 times. It provides pace and flow, nothing more, nothing less.

It’s not a rule, it’s a decision.
 
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